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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I purchased a car from a main dealer which came with a 1 year guarantee.

Within 2 months the airbag system had malfunctioned and was flashing its warning light.

I have been back to have the system repaired 3 times, and it has now failed a 4th time and they want is back again. I have been told several different stories about what the problem is and how it should be fixed depending on who you get to talk to there.

Doe anyone know where can find out what my rights are? Surely if they have sold me a car with a malfunctioning safety system (The airbags and the seat belt pre tensioners will not operate whist the error light is flashing according to the manual) they are duty bound to repair it or replace the car regardless of any guarantee?

Where can I get help?

:confused::confused:
 

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Before you enter the litigation route ask them for their official complaints book as this is exactly what it is for. Prepare you complaint beforhand making it concise and verifiable fact based ie not based on what you thought they said over the phone. This should then be officially investigated.
 

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I read on another expat forum of a similar situation where there was a problem with a car under guarantee that the garage refused to fix and although the complaint registered in the garage's complaint book by the car owner was upheld there was no way of enforcing it other than legal action.
 

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I read on another expat forum of a similar situation where there was a problem with a car under guarantee that the garage refused to fix and although the complaint registered in the garage's complaint book by the car owner was upheld there was no way of enforcing it other than legal action.
I was striped up for more than €1K by seven sport in condeixa near coimbra who have the website SevenSport - Carros Usados, Automoveis Usados em Coimbra when they refused to honour their guarantee.

I wrote in their complaints book and in the fullness of time, received a letter telling me that seven sport in condeixa coimbra were in the wrong and I had every right to sue them........... but you don't get any help in doing that and have to take out a private prosecution which could easily cost you more than the initial loss.

My advice to car buyers now is to only buy from branded dealers who are more likely to stand by their guarantee and certainly to NEVER buy from Seven Sport in Condeixa, Coimbra and who have the website SevenSport - Carros Usados, Automoveis Usados em Coimbra because they do not honour their guarantee and certainly didn't when they refused to pay for my engine rebuild when it blew up during the guarantee period.

Oh and isn't it wonderful how search engine spiders will pick up everything I've said and spread it all over the internet so my comments will show up every time someone searches on Seven Sport Condeixa Coimbra with the website sevensport.net
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks guys.

I have had the car booked in for more 'repairs' Thursday next week.

I swear that I have driven this car with a fault for more miles than I have without.

They are making every effort to look like they are doing the right thing. They keep 'fixing' it. Free. And with a free replacement car too! :) But they keep changing their story. At first they told me (twice) it was the wiring under the drivers seat and if it happened again that a part would need to be replaced. Now they tell me that was not the case, it was something else.

What I don't understand is they they assume you are stupid. Despite being told on a couple of occasions what the problem was, now I complain that it keeps recurving they are insistent that it is NOT actually the same problem each visit. Apparently every time the fault occurs it is a different part of the safety system which has failed, and therefore not the same problem!! LOL Seriously? Do I have "STUPID" tattooed on my forehead? o_O

There must be statutory regulations on safety systems working in cars being sold? If they can't fix it, surely they are duty bound to replace the car?
 

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Assuming there is an intermittent fault, which is the usual situation with modern vehicles, then this sets a "flag" in the vehicle's Electronic Control Unit with a fault code. The fault may exist for a fraction of a second but the "flag" remains till it is reset. The garage will read the fault codes, here a standard OBD2 fault code list which modern cars must comply with

OBD II Fault Codes.

the code does not necessary point to one single specific item at fault but after reading all the flagged fault codes the garage will reset them and try the car again to see if the fault code is flagged again. If the flag was "fault in airbag system" and if it is not flagged whilst in their possession they have no obvious way of finding why the fault code was flagged in your possession. As this is probably the case then why would you accuse them of calling you "stupid" ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Assuming there is an intermittent fault, which is the usual situation with modern vehicles, then this sets a "flag" in the vehicle's Electronic Control Unit with a fault code. The fault may exist for a fraction of a second but the "flag" remains till it is reset. The garage will read the fault codes, here a standard OBD2 fault code list which modern cars must comply with

OBD II Fault Codes.

the code does not necessary point to one single specific item at fault but after reading all the flagged fault codes the garage will reset them and try the car again to see if the fault code is flagged again. If the flag was "fault in airbag system" and if it is not flagged whilst in their possession they have no obvious way of finding why the fault code was flagged in your possession. As this is probably the case then why would you accuse them of calling you "stupid" ?
It's like this:

The first time it went in they told me wiring under the drivers seat was loose and needed reseating.
The second time it went in they told me the problem was the wiring under the drivers seat (The actual guy that fixed it told me this) And that if it occurred again they would have to replace the part.
The third time I took it in they said they had no idea what could cause it, and they needed to do more testing. Testing showed that it was my umbrella which was under the drivers seat which must have knocked the wires loose. :confused:
I said "Well replace it like you said you would - it is the same fault every time."
They told me "No. It isn't the same every time. The first time it was a fault with the light. The second time it was a fault with the plug, this time it is a fault with the wire."

:confused2:

I now have to take in in for a 4th time for more 'testing'.

So in light of the very generic style of the error codes, who is talking stupid? Them or me?

I think I have a right to be annoyed by this situation? (Even if that doesn't help me)
 

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Recurring problem

Hi,

How frustrating. I have worked repairing electrical systems (amongst other things) for many years. I would suggest that you ask them to check the entire system that is faulty, so that they can confirm that there are no more loose wires or plugs that would cause you to make another visit for the same system. I would tell them that this would be the reasonable thing for them to do given the inconvenience to you that this problem has caused, as you bought the vehicle in good faith, and have been patient up to this point. I would be interested to hear what they have to say if you propose this to them. It s possible that they are telling the truth. It sounds silly and unlikely, but in all honesty I have had a selection of jobs over he years where every time you fix one bit, the next bit along the line breaks. Rare but it does happen. Who knows in your case.... Please keep us updated.

Regards,

Edd
 

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Hi,

How frustrating. I have worked repairing electrical systems (amongst other things) for many years. I would suggest that you ask them to check the entire system that is faulty, so that they can confirm that there are no more loose wires or plugs that would cause you to make another visit for the same system. I would tell them that this would be the reasonable thing for them to do given the inconvenience to you that this problem has caused, as you bought the vehicle in good faith, and have been patient up to this point. I would be interested to hear what they have to say if you propose this to them. It s possible that they are telling the truth. It sounds silly and unlikely, but in all honesty I have had a selection of jobs over he years where every time you fix one bit, the next bit along the line breaks. Rare but it does happen. Who knows in your case.... Please keep us updated.

Regards,

Edd
Hi,

It almost certainly the case that a fault flag has been set momentary but there is not a permanent fault. The mechanic reads the fault code which says something like "an anomaly HAS occurred in the drivers pretension circuit" so checks the wiring of the "drivers pretension circuit" and finds it is not clipped onto one of its clips so repositions it then he/she clears the fault code and starts the car 20 times and the fault code does not reappear so declares the car good. Next time the car comes in with a fault he/she goes through the routine again, can't find anything physically wrong so unplugs the "drivers pretension circuit" connector and cleans it reconnects it then clears the fault code and starts the car 20 times and the fault light/code does not reoccur so declares it good. If they start the engine 20 times and no fault code occurs then they have little choice but to say there is nothing wrong and they can prove it by giving you a print out showing there are no faults indicated. If there is a broken wire or a permanent bad connection this would be easy to find and fix and ever tine the fault code/light was reset it would come on again immediately.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hi,

It almost certainly the case that a fault flag has been set momentary but there is not a permanent fault. The mechanic reads the fault code which says something like "an anomaly HAS occurred in the drivers pretension circuit" so checks the wiring of the "drivers pretension circuit" and finds it is not clipped onto one of its clips so repositions it then he/she clears the fault code and starts the car 20 times and the fault code does not reappear so declares the car good. Next time the car comes in with a fault he/she goes through the routine again, can't find anything physically wrong so unplugs the "drivers pretension circuit" connector and cleans it reconnects it then clears the fault code and starts the car 20 times and the fault light/code does not reoccur so declares it good. If they start the engine 20 times and no fault code occurs then they have little choice but to say there is nothing wrong and they can prove it by giving you a print out showing there are no faults indicated. If there is a broken wire or a permanent bad connection this would be easy to find and fix and ever tine the fault code/light was reset it would come on again immediately.
OK, so what is the solution?

In reply to Eddward - I already did this. They told me they had removed all the seats and checked it end to end and it was all OK. That was a couple of Fridays ago. On the following Monday it malfunctioned again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hi,

It almost certainly the case that a fault flag has been set momentary but there is not a permanent fault. The mechanic reads the fault code which says something like "an anomaly HAS occurred in the drivers pretension circuit" so checks the wiring of the "drivers pretension circuit" and finds it is not clipped onto one of its clips so repositions it then he/she clears the fault code and starts the car 20 times and the fault code does not reappear so declares the car good. Next time the car comes in with a fault he/she goes through the routine again, can't find anything physically wrong so unplugs the "drivers pretension circuit" connector and cleans it reconnects it then clears the fault code and starts the car 20 times and the fault light/code does not reoccur so declares it good. If they start the engine 20 times and no fault code occurs then they have little choice but to say there is nothing wrong and they can prove it by giving you a print out showing there are no faults indicated. If there is a broken wire or a permanent bad connection this would be easy to find and fix and ever tine the fault code/light was reset it would come on again immediately.


Just for the record I have done some additional searching. It seems the the airbag codes are likely to be a lot more specific than you state. They will point directly at the fault - EG "Drivers Seatbelt pre-tensioner open circuit" is Cat 10 Code 2 on the Opel. You may need the specific SRS airbag codes device to read these - I would expect a main dealer to have one though.

I don't know why you have any interest in defending them, they are are BSing me, that is plain for all to see.

I was supposed to be there now having a repair done. They called me last night and lied about my appointment being yesterday. I am now booked for Tuesday instead. I know they are lying as A - I have an email confirmation from then that me appointment was today, and B - I always receive an SMS on the night before an appointment to remind me to attend. I did not get such an SMS the night before last!

I am sick of the lies. It is disrespectful.
I am sick of them trying to get out of their obligations. It is unprofessional.

What can be done? I dunno, but I am getting fed up.
 

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Just for the record I have done some additional searching. It seems the the airbag codes are likely to be a lot more specific than you state. They will point directly at the fault - EG "Drivers Seatbelt pre-tensioner open circuit" is Cat 10 Code 2 on the Opel. You may need the specific SRS airbag codes device to read these - I would expect a main dealer to have one though.

I don't know why you have any interest in defending them, they are are BSing me, that is plain for all to see.

I was supposed to be there now having a repair done. They called me last night and lied about my appointment being yesterday. I am now booked for Tuesday instead. I know they are lying as A - I have an email confirmation from then that me appointment was today, and B - I always receive an SMS on the night before an appointment to remind me to attend. I did not get such an SMS the night before last!

I am sick of the lies. It is disrespectful.
I am sick of them trying to get out of their obligations. It is unprofessional.

What can be done? I dunno, but I am getting fed up.






Hi,


"Just for the record I have done some additional searching. It seems that the airbag codes are likely to be a lot more specific than you state. They will point directly at the fault"

Then all you need to do is ask for the fault code and instruct the garage directly on which part YOU want changed to repair it. Ok you may have to pay for the part and labour but YOU KNOW it will be in perfect working order with no faults and you will not have to rely on their "lying and unprofessional" service anymore.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hi,


"Just for the record I have done some additional searching. It seems that the airbag codes are likely to be a lot more specific than you state. They will point directly at the fault"

Then all you need to do is ask for the fault code and instruct the garage directly on which part YOU want changed to repair it. Ok you may have to pay for the part and labour but YOU KNOW it will be in perfect working order with no faults and you will not have to rely on their "lying and unprofessional" service anymore.
I paid a lot of money for this car. It came with a one year guarantee. I paid a lot of money for a newish car with a one year guarantee precisely to try and avoid this sort of problem. I don't think it is reasonable for me to have to pay for parts and labour on an essential safety system, when there is still 6 months on the guarantee. Even without a guarantee there must be some sort of statutory regulations about safety systems actually not being faulty when a dealership sells a car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
OMG

I don't know what to do.

I took the car in for its 5th repair. They had it 10 days. They say they had a specialist come to the garage and update the system etc etc. I got it back and the trim around the dash is hanging off :( They say - we never touched that bit, nothing to do with us.

Within a week of finally getting the car back, my wife moves the drivers seat and the airbag fault light is on again.

They have failed for almost a year to fix it, despite - I almost lost count - 5 or possibly 6 trips to them to fix it.

I am demanding a replacement car, but that does not look promising.

What am i supposed to do!?!?
 

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OMG

I don't know what to do.

I took the car in for its 5th repair. They had it 10 days. They say they had a specialist come to the garage and update the system etc etc. I got it back and the trim around the dash is hanging off :( They say - we never touched that bit, nothing to do with us.

Within a week of finally getting the car back, my wife moves the drivers seat and the airbag fault light is on again.

They have failed for almost a year to fix it, despite - I almost lost count - 5 or possibly 6 trips to them to fix it.

I am demanding a replacement car, but that does not look promising.

What am i supposed to do!?!?

"Just for the record I have done some additional searching. It seems that the airbag codes are likely to be a lot more specific than you state. They will point directly at the fault"


Then all you need to do is ask for the fault code and instruct the garage directly on which part YOU want changed to repair it. Ok you may have to pay for the part and labour but YOU KNOW it will be in perfect working order with no faults and you will not have to rely on their "lying and unprofessional" service anymore.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·



"Just for the record I have done some additional searching. It seems that the airbag codes are likely to be a lot more specific than you state. They will point directly at the fault"


Then all you need to do is ask for the fault code and instruct the garage directly on which part YOU want changed to repair it. Ok you may have to pay for the part and labour but YOU KNOW it will be in perfect working order with no faults and you will not have to rely on their "lying and unprofessional" service anymore.
As logical and sensible as that sounds, I still question why, if I am sold a car with a fault, I should have to pay to rectify the fault. Especially as I have a guarantee.

I'm not saying it won't come to that. But if it does, I will make and entry in their complaints book, and name them on every forum related to expats and those immigrating to Portugal. It is only fair to warn others about poor service and unfair practices, is it not?
 

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As logical and sensible as that sounds, I still question why, if I am sold a car with a fault, I should have to pay to rectify the fault. Especially as I have a guarantee.

I'm not saying it won't come to that. But if it does, I will make and entry in their complaints book, and name them on every forum related to expats and those immigrating to Portugal. It is only fair to warn others about poor service and unfair practices, is it not?
Absolutely right and also exactly why I take every possible opportunity to recommend people DO NOT buy a car from Seven Sport Automoveis in Condeixa A Nova, Coimbra.

Such crooks who refuse to honour their guarantees should be named and shamed at every opportunity.

Who did you buy your from Matt?
 
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