I'm getting confused here. Lines 2TS and 2TR are on form 2042 (i.e. the main form), as is line 8TK.

But the detail of your foreign source income is reported in "detail" on form 2047, with the amounts carried over to be included with what you report on certain lines of the 2042 form (i.e. 2TS and 2TR for example). In general all your foreign source income needs to appear on both the 2042 form (lumped in with your French sourced income in the case of investment income) and on the 2047 (with a bit more detail). But the 2047 form indicates (in small print) on the far right side of each line, which line or box on 2042 the total amounts should be carried to.

Where are you looking to "add" lines? The 2042 or the 2047?

 

It has been announced that the new declaration forms will be available on 11 April. I am sure the answer and box numbers will be there.

 

Reply from the impots:

Vos dividendes doivent être déclarés ligne 2TS et vos intérêts ligne 2TR
S'agissant de la ligne 8TK vous devez à l'avenir différentier ligne par ligne : les dividendes, les intérêts et les pensions.

It's on form 2047 section 6 that I need to add more lines. I have tried several times but it only allows me to add one extra line and I need two more, that's the reason I added my US benefits, dividends and interest together on one line, stating what the figures were. I also wrote them a note explaining this. Everything then goes on line 8TK on form 2042 as well as lines 1AL and 1BL.

For lines 2TS and 2TR, I do not understand why I must put in the figures. I put the interest on line 240, I then put that figure on line 251. Line 252 - dont interets et autres produits de placement a revenue fixe = 2TR. Am I supposed to put the figure in that box also?

For line 2TS for dividends, I put the amount in section 200, lines 210 and 221. Line 223 under dividends says "dont autres revenus line 2TS". I did not fill that in.

I've been to the tax office, but they won't let me speak to anyone, they say I have to write in a message on my impot account. I have been back and forth with them, but I still don't understand. Hope this is more clear.

 

I think the issue is that you really do have to include your foreign source revenues in the proper place on both forms 2042 and 2047. I can only go by how ClickImpots handles this sort of thing, but basically when using ClickImpots, you fill out an information form as part of the 2047 form. That puts the numbers on the proper line or space on the 2047 form and then carries the totals over to the boxes on the 2042 form.

Ah, but the French fiscal approach strikes again. Per last year's forms, I see that line 221 (on the 2047 form) reads "Total des dividendes et jetons imposables" and is supposed to be the total of lines 208+210+220. You then are supposed to split the amount on line 221 up into the categories on lines 222, 223 and 224. And it's line 223 that they tell you to carry over to 2TS (on the 2042 form).

OK, I admit I only figured this stuff out because my DH has various investments here in France - and when you get your "filled in" tax forms (online or in paper version), you get them with certain lines (like 2TS) itemized for the various sources of the figures that are accumulated for that line. (In our case, a listing of the banks and/or other financial institutions that have reported the various types of income to the Fisc.)

Yup, it's complicated - but OTOH, back in the old US of A the IRS just lets you sweat not knowing what information they have received about your income. At least here, they list it out for you so you can check it against the documents your banks and financial institutions have sent you - so you might actually know if something got "lost in the mail." And yes, it is a little unnerving how many times you have to include certain bits of information on various lines and spaces on the same tax declaration.

However, if you have set up your Espace particulier set up you can access it and then click on the menu bar where it says "Documents" where you should be able to see what you filed for the last few years. You can go to the "documents liés" to find things like the "annexe" forms (2047, for example) and the declaration of your foreign accounts. Ours goes back to 2020 (i.e. the 2019 calendar year). Taking a look at what the Fisc has on file can be very useful. (Though I do note that last year's pensions from the US show up for some strange reason as "Alaska" for the source country - though prior years are just fine with "Etats-Unis").

Not sure this answers your specific question, but it does give you some additional resources to try to figure out what's going on.

 

Thanks Bev, I think I fill in the figures in the right places (for 40 years now), it's just those lines 2TS and 2TR that are giving me trouble for the first time, since I never knew about them and nobody at the tax office ever pointed out that those sections need filling in. Dividend Section 210 - Revenus ouvrant droit à un credit d'impot eqal à l'impot francaise, I put my figure there. I then put it on line 221 - Total of dividendes et jetons imposables and that's it. Line 223 - dont autres revenus (2TS), I don't know what other revenues they are talking about since I am under the Dividends section.

For the interest section 240 - Interets ouvrant droit à un credit d'impot egal à l'impot francais, I put my interest there. It then carries down to line 251. Line 252 (2TR) dont interets et autres produits de placement à revenue fixe, have no idea what they are talking about here, so I don't put a figure in.

I have all my tax declarations on paper, as when I finish filling in a page, I make a copy so that I have the whole declaration. I don't like the synopsis the tax people give in the Documents section of my account, it's too brief for me.

I guess I could go once again to the tax office and try and talk to someone before the tax season opens up. Unfortunately, the people at my office are not very nice, especially the man who handles the US tax problems. I'm almost on the verge of cancelling my CDs and my life insurance policy in the US. It's quite frustrating.

Thanks again.

 

I'm not pushing ClickImpot - and I'll be the first to admit that it has taken me several years of using the program to feel comfortable with it. But the online tax declaration system on the impots.gouv site does tend to operate in a somewhat similar fashion, as I recall.

Certain lines and spaces you can't fill in directly - rather, you have to go to the "annexe" form, or a sub-form or "worksheet" form to fill in the detail, which is then carried to the proper lines on the main form (the 2042). Or (the part that used to drive me nuts) you have to check off what sorts of investment, or foreign source income you had to report before they would let you access the annexe form that would give you only the sections that were relevant to you.

As you say, Whatever, it's the order in which you fill in the information - whether using the Fisc's online system or ClickImpot. For many of the lines on the 2042 related to investment income, you may have multiple (French) bank accounts contributing to the amounts the Fisc has filled in for you based on what the banks have reported to the Fisc. You then have to add to what is pre-filled for any foreign source income of comparable type.

I think I fill in the figures in the right places (for 40 years now),

A somewhat unrelated question here. How long have you been living in France and filing French IR forms? (40 years, I guess....) I somehow thought you had arrived only shortly before you signed up for the forum. But I fully admit to getting forum members and their back stories confused. And, I admit there has been a change in how closely they can and do check our filings in the last 15 or 20 years - particularly since the online filing has become mandatory.

 

I am pretty sure it has to do with the ORDER in which you fill in the boxes.

 

Clickimpôts won't tell you the order in which the information was entered, though it could give you some clues (which is perhaps better than the information you have saved, if only because it should be correct, so I guess you need to make a decision about using the program. At the very least it should be correct until next time the data you need to input changes. But I can tell you that you would need to subscribe to the program sooner rather than later, as IIRC there is a fair bit of detail on the instructions to take in. I subscribed once, but really it was too late for me to take it in and I ended up not using it.

 

Went to the tax office this morning. For those who haven't gone for a long time, my tax office is only open now from 8:45 to 12:45, found this out when I went yesterday at 2:30. Don't know if this is all of France, or only Paris. The reply I received on my Impot message service was wrong. I only put in my interest and dividends on lines 2TR and 2TS, nothing else. For adding additional lines on line 8TK it is impossible to add additional lines. Each declarer has one line only. I told the person that I write a note breaking down the amounts and she said that was sufficient, they can figure that out, so no worries. I went away happy.
Bev, I have been here since 1984 and have grown old, but with a young spirit. At least after all these years, I have stopped ranting about returning to the States, that's a good sign.
Thanks for everything.

 

I only put in my interest and dividends on lines 2TR and 2TS, nothing else. For adding additional lines on line 8TK it is impossible to add additional lines. Each declarer has one line only. I told the person that I write a note breaking down the amounts and she said that was sufficient, they can figure that out, so no worries. I went away happy.

It took me quite a while to figure that out - but with the advent of the "filled in forms" on the Fisc website, I finally found the detail lists of what the Fisc has already on you. (And subsequently became aware of how "unadapted to expats" all tax systems are!) I still go into the Fisc website, find the listings of what info has been included in which line, and check it back to the bank and other statements we get at the end of the year - even though ClickImpot (finally!) has a function to simply import that information from the Fisc website. (Once an auditor, always an auditor, I guess. <g>)

But I'm glad you got the information you needed. I suspect the shortened office hours may have been a one-off local thing. Probably giving the Fisc folks a little time off (or maybe training classes) before the "tax season" officially opens next week. And yes, how well I recognize having passed that stage of ranting about things not working like they do in the States.

 

I think every tax office will have different hours, certainly here they vary very fresuently, particularly to do with anticipated staff availability etc etc. Impôt staff are complaining bitterly about staff numbers and workloads.

But all's well that ends well for me OP.