Expat Forum For People Moving Overseas And Living Abroad banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Can any one help me here as I am getting a bit mislead,
Firstly I have been paying UK NI for 30 years, so I am fully payed up for the current UK pension scheme.
Secondly I have a Military pension from my time served in the UK armed forces.

as I understand it some of this will be taxed but by which country.

Thirdly as I am still relatively young, 46, I plan on being self employed under the AE scheme.

How much Cotisatons would i end up paying, I only expect to make around 10,000euros a year.

So if I pay Cotisations for the rest of my working life, 20 years, how much french Pension would i end up getting.

Hope some one can clarify these points.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
50,395 Posts
Can't help you on the UK pensions stuff (but someone here on the forum will have information for you).

OK, all the details about the AE scheme are available on Portail officiel des auto-entrepreneurs Just remember that you pay cotisations based on your turnover (gross revenue) before any deductions for expenses or anything else. How much you pay depends on the type of business - a service business pays about 23%, while a business that involves merchandise pays a higher percentage (because the ceiling on AE revenues is higher for a merchandise based business).

If you pay cotisations for 20 years, you'll be eligible for a partial pension based on the number of years you paid in, and the amounts you declared during those years. (The exact formula is really complicated.) You can get an idea by going to the RSI website www.rsi.fr (RSI is the agency that collects cotisations for the independent workers, like AEs) - but the pension system here is under fire for being too costly and I guarantee you there will be changes made to the system over the next 20 years.
Cheers,
Bev
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,806 Posts
Can any one help me here as I am getting a bit mislead,
Firstly I have been paying UK NI for 30 years, so I am fully payed up for the current UK pension scheme.
Secondly I have a Military pension from my time served in the UK armed forces.

as I understand it some of this will be taxed but by which country.

Thirdly as I am still relatively young, 46, I plan on being self employed under the AE scheme.

How much Cotisatons would i end up paying, I only expect to make around 10,000euros a year.

So if I pay Cotisations for the rest of my working life, 20 years, how much french Pension would i end up getting.

Hope some one can clarify these points.
As far as your UK State Pension goes, you can contact DWP in Newcastle for a Pension Forecast. Whether it's taxed at source depends upon where it comes from.

Your Military Pension, I believe is taxed at source, but because of the treaty, you won't pay tax twice on it.

As an AE in France, I can't give you any kind of figures, but it'd get you into the French system, if this is where you plan to spend the rest of your days, so you will reap the benefits.

hils
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,909 Posts
Uk pensions are usually paid tax deducted at source. I understand that if you go non UK tax resident and provide the appropriate bit of paper to the pension providers they will pay gross.

I'm tax resident in France, but I haven't got round to making myself non res in the UK. I have several pensions and they are paid with tax deducted. I declare the pension revenue and the tax deducted on my Fr tax form and the UK tax paid is deducted from the Fr tax bill.

You need to be aware that there is a special arrangement for "government pensions" - NHS, military , teachers , but not the UK State pension. I can't remember the details without looking them up. I went to my local Fr tax office a few weeks ago and they went through the tx calcs with me. We were all relieved that the calcs were correct.

DejW

Can any one help me here as I am getting a bit mislead,
Firstly I have been paying UK NI for 30 years, so I am fully payed up for the current UK pension scheme.
Secondly I have a Military pension from my time served in the UK armed forces.

as I understand it some of this will be taxed but by which country.

Thirdly as I am still relatively young, 46, I plan on being self employed under the AE scheme.

How much Cotisatons would i end up paying, I only expect to make around 10,000euros a year.

So if I pay Cotisations for the rest of my working life, 20 years, how much french Pension would i end up getting.

Hope some one can clarify these points.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
with my OAP and Military pension combined my income in the UK is just over £20k.
then using the IRS calculator i then deduct my allowance of £9440.
giving me an annual tax bill of £2000 approx.

Paying into the french system for twenty years means I will get an additional tax bill but the off set is that I could get some more benefits from it.

I know you basically buy points in the french pension system ( up to 4 per year), but how much is each point worth. this is what is confusing me.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
50,395 Posts
The value of the points changes each year - and I think the points depend on how much salary you report. Though it's confusing - the French pension is a two part deal. One part is a flat amount, based on how long you paid into the system (though they do count some of your years when you have worked elsewhere) and the other part is based on your salary for the years you paid in.

Once you're in the system, you are supposed to get an estimate every 5 years or so of what your pension will be worth (assuming you continue to contribute at the same rate until the age of retirement).

But they have just raised the number of years of contributions you need for a full pension to 43 years, so things are likely to change further still.
Cheers,
Bev
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
the french system is a bit confusing, I plan on paying cotisations for around 20 years on an income of approx 20,000 euros per year under the AE scheme.

what percentage due pay of total income, again I have found conflicting info.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
50,395 Posts
Well, at the moment, if you have consistent revenue of 20,000 € a year, you'll be out of the AE system in two years. But that's a technicality.

Based on the estimate of retirement benefits I just got, and apportioning things appropriately, if you pay your cotisations for 20 years on a flat rate of "salary" like that, assuming that you continue to pay into the system until your "full" age of retirement (probably 67 by then), you could be looking at maybe 350 - 450€ a month for retirement. But assumes that things remain somewhat the same as they are now.
Cheers,
Bev
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
686 Posts
You would need to specify what type of AutoEntrepreneur business you will be running since the minimum turnover to accrue pension benefits and the amount of cotisations vary with each type. Details here
Quels sont les droits à la retraite des auto-entrepreneurs ? - Service-public.fr

If you are planning to run gites for example, then you would need a declared turnover of 26,013 to accrue 4 quarters of pension rights. This would then give you a theoretical annual "income" of 7,543 on which your pension would be calculated.

So if you are planning to have a turnover of 10,000 on the Activité Liberale regime you could only accrue 3 quarters pension rights per year and then your pension would be on a base of 6,600 (but after 20 years you would only have 60 quarters).

However, add the 60 quarters to your UK 30 years (i.e. 120 quarters) you would have 180 quarters so enough for a "full" French pension. However, your base income in the last 20 years would have only been 6,600.

Currently, under EU rules if you have worked in more than one EU country, your pension contributions should be added together and there is a formula for calculating the pension due - have a look at this page to see how it works.

EU - Pension claims and calculation of EU pensions-Your Europe

As Bev says, this assumes that UK and French pension rules stay the same, and that the EU rules are still in force.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
50,395 Posts
Tinabee makes an excellent point. If you're relying on the AE for making your pension contributions, you have to allow for the fact that your AE cotisations are based on turnover (raw takings) rather than "income" (which would be revenue less relevant expenses).

If you report and pay cotisations on 20,000€ of revenue, your assumed income for the period is going to be much less than that.

And it pays to understand that, while the French pension system will count the time your worked anywhere in the EU (and in any country with which France has a social security treaty, like the US), they will only take your income into account during the years you worked in France and reported your income into the French system. (And at least at the moment, they only count the last 35 years, I think it is, for computing your pension benefit - so you've got 15 years of 0€ to offset.)

Net-net, you're likely to get a couple hundred €€ a month - which isn't much, but could be a handy top-up to your UK based pensions.
Cheers,
Bev
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
pension how fun they are.

at least with my uk and military pension plus what ever i get from the french system, i think i will be able to live my lifestyle happily with out too much concern plus as a friend mentioned there will be the income from the gite business as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
737 Posts
you don't say if you have a partner ; that would change the french tax position a lot as incomes are amalgamated and you get a double personal allowance
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top