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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Dear all,
I'm European, binational Franco-Britannique, I live in Moselle, France, I coach aquatic sports.
Every 5 years Sports teachers in France must get their business ID cards renewed, Carte d’Educateur Sportif des APS.
In March 2017, I sent the DDCS 57/Sport, Metz, France a request for renewal of my sports teacher’s business ID card and I asked that my dual citizenship "Franco-Britannique" be mentioned on the business ID card.
On 8 April 2017, I received the new card but with only the mention “Britannique” as nationality.
The United Kingdom will leave the European Community in 2 years’ time and the fact of not having French nationality stated on my business ID card may cause me problems to find work.
On 8 April 2017, I sent an email to the DDCS 57/2017 requesting an update of my business ID card.
June 6, 2017, still no reply, so I phoned the DDCS 57/2017, I was told that the person in charge at the Ministry of Sport refuses to indicate my French nationality on my business ID card. On top of that the DDCS 57/Sport, Metz, France will not give me the name of the person at the Ministry of Sport who refuses to indicate that I’m French.
What can I do to fix this?
Best regards,
Stephen Newton
 

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I can't help with the detail, but perhaps you are a fonctionnaires nightmare? Dual nationality is not common, so the systems are not geared up for it. You may be "Brittanique" simply because B is before F in the alphabet? Or your name appears English, so you are English?

All I can suggest is that you get an appointment with the appropriate Fr office and go armed with ALL (ALL possible, 3 copies of each etc etc) possible paperwork and explain and politely ask for their help. Clearly you have a good case, you need to present it simply so that they can deal with it. Perhaps start with "I am French".....that will position you in their systems. Then " I also have British nationality".....try it?

There was a 13 Century English monk who excelled at logic. He gave his name to Occam's razor, which means you pare down a detailed explanation until you have the minimum necessary. In modern business this is refined down to "never make an assumption of evil intent when an explanaton of stupidity will suffice". Perhaps that applies here? <grin>

DejW
 

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Actually dual nationality is very common in France.

It may be, though, that the (computer) system does not provide for it. It's possible that you will need to opt for one nationality or the other. However, it's worth doing as DejW suggests.
 

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How have you acquired your dual nationality?
You do realise, I assume, that from a French admin point of view it makes no difference how you acquired French nationality and that French citizenship confers the same rights whether you are French by descent, naturalisation, whatever.

Many people, like me, have dual nationality as of right from birth - that makes us no different from those who have dual nationality via eg. naturalisation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Through marrage with my French wife. After 5 years marrage you can request French citizenship. It took alot of paperwork but I think it's worth it.
 

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Through marrage with my French wife. After 5 years marrage you can request French citizenship. It took alot of paperwork but I think it's worth it.
So you are not French. When I first read this thread I thought you were 'half' French.

I have been married 10 years (I think lol) but I can't call myself Franco-Britannique.

Personally, I think you are flogging a dead horse here.
 

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May I ask *why* it was worth it.......forgetting the emotional aspects? I've. been in France for 16 years, and married "la cheffe" in 2010. Apart from possible unknown Brexit consequences I don't see any advantages....I've got my carte vitale, large adopted family in France, nagging wife.....what more do I want?

DejW



Through marrage with my French wife. After 5 years marrage you can request French citizenship. It took alot of paperwork but I think it's worth it.
 

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Look, why or how he got his dual nationality is of no concern here. (It certainly does take the worry out of the whole Brexit thing, if nothing else!)

I also have dual nationality and one observation is that in most administrative type situations, the government only wants to know about your local nationality - i.e. for the French government, you're French and for the British government, you're British (or in my case, for the US government, I'm American). You don't need to trouble their pretty little heads with any "alternatives" you might have handy.

There are a few exceptions, where a questionnaire might ask for "all" your nationalities - but I can think of only one or two examples I've run across - or where you are applying for something for which being a "foreigner" is part of the basis of the application.

But for a standard business document like this sports license, I would mention only the French nationality and let it go at that. (Or, live with it for the 5 year term of the current license and make sure it gets changes to French at the next renewal.)
Cheers,
Bev
 

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Look, why or how he got his dual nationality is of no concern here. (It certainly does take the worry out of the whole Brexit thing, if nothing else!)

I also have dual nationality and one observation is that in most administrative type situations, the government only wants to know about your local nationality - i.e. for the French government, you're French and for the British government, you're British (or in my case, for the US government, I'm American). You don't need to trouble their pretty little heads with any "alternatives" you might have handy.

There are a few exceptions, where a questionnaire might ask for "all" your nationalities - but I can think of only one or two examples I've run across - or where you are applying for something for which being a "foreigner" is part of the basis of the application.

But for a standard business document like this sports license, I would mention only the French nationality and let it go at that. (Or, live with it for the 5 year term of the current license and make sure it gets changes to French at the next renewal.)
Cheers,
Bev
Being a sports coach in France is very highly regulated, regardless of sport.

I think in this case the French ministry of sport are correct.
 

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Being a sports coach in France is very highly regulated, regardless of sport.

I think in this case the French ministry of sport are correct.
Why on earth would you think that? Clearly the OP is qualified in France in his field.

(Of course, for those who think it's not worth taking French nationality, it's worth bearing in mind that the OP has the right to vote in all elections here. Though I agree, his French nationality and how he obtained it is totally irrelevant to the thread and the OP's question.)
 

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Why on earth would you think that? Clearly the OP is qualified in France in his field.

(Of course, for those who think it's not worth taking French nationality, it's worth bearing in mind that the OP has the right to vote in all elections here. Though I agree, his French nationality and how he obtained it is totally irrelevant to the thread and the OP's question.)

You are either a French national or not a French national.

French 'citizenship' does not make you a French national.

The OP is British (like me) and that is his nationality. It is a black and white answer.

Unless I am missing something !!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I think what I like about being French is the right to vote, I lost the right to vote in England ages ago. If you add the number of expats & 16 year old in the UK who couldn’t vote NO to BRIXIT the British government wouldn’t be in the total mess it’s in now. Also having 2 nationalities you can switch whenever you feel unwelcome, or need a good excuse.
On the other hand, you know I’ve never really felt “British” or “French” anyway. We live very close to the German border, all our shopping is done in Germany, when we go out we go to Germany. Our kids grew up in a French/German school, both have European diplomas. My granddaughter is Algerian/French - British/Italian and boy is she beautiful &#55357;&#56841;
 

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I think what I like about being French is the right to vote, I lost the right to vote in England ages ago. If you add the number of expats & 16 year old in the UK who couldn’t vote NO to BRIXIT the British government wouldn’t be in the total mess it’s in now. Also having 2 nationalities you can switch whenever you feel unwelcome, or need a good excuse.
On the other hand, you know I’ve never really felt “British” or “French” anyway. We live very close to the German border, all our shopping is done in Germany, when we go out we go to Germany. Our kids grew up in a French/German school, both have European diplomas. My granddaughter is Algerian/French - British/Italian and boy is she beautiful ��
Why don't you move to Germany then ? Just asking.

Does it matter what the mess the UK is in ? Is that important ? You don't live there. You live in France and do all your shopping in Germany....like you do.

With respect, I don't understand your problem.
 

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Smeggie, dear Boy.

I say "dear boy" because I'm trying to do my infantile Noël Coward imitation...silk dressing gown, long cigarette holder and a rather superior frown on my face.

The original poster has well described his problem......he's got Fr/ Brit nationality and is a sports instructor in France. On his necessary sports permit he's got nationality as "Brit" and that might be a problem after Brexit. I think he's right to be worried. I hope that some of us have given helpful advice.

Where he lives in France, and voting in Brexit.....etc etc etc are just by lines in the otherwise serious discussion about a serious problem.

Ho hum....DejW

PS...useless piece of information for today. A script writer wrote for a biographic film dear Noël Coward. Naturally the writer inserted "dear boy" everywhere. When Noel read the script he commented to the writer "Too many 'dear boys', dear boy".

Why don't you move to Germany then ? Just asking.

Does it matter what the mess the UK is in ? Is that important ? You don't live there. You live in France and do all your shopping in Germany....like you do.

With respect, I don't understand your problem.
 

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You are either a French national or not a French national.

French 'citizenship' does not make you a French national.

The OP is British (like me) and that is his nationality. It is a black and white answer.

Unless I am missing something !!!
If you want to get pedantic about the uses of the term "nationality" in English, perhaps this isn't the right venue. France (and French law and the administration) speak of "Acquisition de la nationalité française" by déclaration or by naturalisation - and oddly enough, obtaining French nationalité by marriage is considered to be "by déclaration" - just like getting your nationality through your parents. https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/N111

The point is that, for the French administration, your nationalité is français if you have it - and you give any others only if asked for them.
Cheers,
Bev
 

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If you want to get pedantic about the uses of the term "nationality" in English, perhaps this isn't the right venue. France (and French law and the administration) speak of "Acquisition de la nationalité française" by déclaration or by naturalisation - and oddly enough, obtaining French nationalité by marriage is considered to be "by déclaration" - just like getting your nationality through your parents. https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/N111

The point is that, for the French administration, your nationalité is français if you have it - and you give any others only if asked for them.
Cheers,
Bev
I am not being pedantic. The sports ministry have made their decision in this case. I agree with them.

Being married to a French person (like you, me and DejW) does not make you a French national.

Having your original nationality on a licence to teach a sport should not change anything. It might be a bonus !!!!

Like I said, I don't see what the problem is. Unless it is a marketing thing ???? In which case, welcome to France.
 

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From what I can tell, the OP originally asked to be listed as franco-britannique - however, I don't know of any French administrative document that caters to dual nationals. You pick one or the other and you stick with it. If you submitted a french carte d'identité as part of the renewal process, then you're French.

Personally, I avoid using the expression Franco-American because it's a brand of canned spaghetti back in the US. Not terribly appetizing - but definitely a marketing thing.

Though at this point, I think you may be right in that unless it makes some huge difference, the OP may be stuck with the license as it has been issued until the next renewal date.
Cheers,
Bev
 

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The reason I asked the question is that nationality and citizenship are often confused.You are a national of a particular country because you were either born in a country and/or your father/mother were of a particular nationality.It is an accident of birth I suppose. Citizenship is acquired by a legal process and being accepted by the state that you are living in.
On most French official forms you have to state in which country you were born This is your "official"nationality ie Brittanique.You are not a French national but you are a French citizen which confers on you all the same rights as regards your employment as if you were French so personally I would not worry about it
 

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The reason I asked the question is that nationality and citizenship are often confused.You are a national of a particular country because you were either born in a country and/or your father/mother were of a particular nationality.It is an accident of birth I suppose. Citizenship is acquired by a legal process and being accepted by the state that you are living in.
On most French official forms you have to state in which country you were born This is your "official"nationality ie Brittanique.You are not a French national but you are a French citizen which confers on you all the same rights as regards your employment as if you were French so personally I would not worry about it
This is totally incorrect. In fact, some countries don't accept you as a citizen even if you were born there.
 
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