[signifi]

Hello,
My fiance (from Russia) and I are about to apply for a UK Fiancee visa for her and I am her sponsor. I think we just about have everything in order to start the application but was wondering if anyone here could help with a few things I'm VERY confused about on the VAF4A forms...
We are engaged to be married and miss each other like crazy, so want to get this right.
Ok here goes...

Firstly, regarding the Financial requirement form (Appendix 2 VAF4A)...
1. In section 1.16 it asks if we have been living in a relationship akin to marriage. Do we put yes, no, or not applicable. During her visits to the UK (twice) which total 22 days we did live in a relationship akin to marriage. We also speak to each other every day just like a married couple. But do UKBA see this as "living in a relationship"?
2. 1.19 asks have you lived with your sponsor. Does her staying with me at my home and holidaying in hotels during her 22 days here count as living with me?
3. Section 1.20 asks if either of us is married? She has never been married, BUT I am currently separated, but my divorce proceedings will be finalised in September. It's being processed in the Australian Court system which only requires one person to want a divorce and it is granted. I will be divorced and have divorce certificate on October 17. I have a letter from my Aussie solicitor stating all these facts and this letter will go into the application. Because I am actually separated and have been for over one year, do I put YES to this question? As far as the UKBA is concerned if I'm separated (to them) does that mean I am still married until divorced?
4. In section 1.21 it then asks have you or your sponsor been in a previous marriage? So, do I put this as a previous marriage again? Also I was married/divorced in the 1990's, do I also put this relationship on the form also? I have a divorce certificate for this first marriage thankfully.
5.Question 3.2 (Calculating...) seems to contradict itself. I have a daughter 5 (who is a British citizen) from my marriage/separation, and I pay maintenance. She does not live with me but I see her every other weekend. From what I see in ths section 3.2 it says..."taking account of any child dependents under the age of 18 your sponsor is already financially responsible for in the UK. Then it says children who are British Citizens or not subject to UK immigration control do not need to be considered when calculating the financial requirement. SO, I assume this means I put "Applying with no child dependents under 18. Is that correct? So confusing and poorly worded.
6. Section 3.22 does not make sense. I already answer YES to 3.21, but question 3.22, (and although I have been with my employer over 4 years) it asks "if your sponsor has not been employed by the same employer for 6 months prior to the application does their total income (before tax) from salaried employment received in the 12 months prior to your application meet or exceed the financial requirement you must meet? ??????so strange? It does not apply but I don't want to leave it blank.
7. What is the MAINTENANCe section for? I have completed section 3, does that mean I do not have to answer anything in section 4 (Maintenance).???

And then on the main VAF4A form:
1. If I am her sponsor and I meet the financial requirements does she need to supply documents such as letter from her employer, payslips etc? None of this seems to be clearly explained.

Please help. We both have zero annual leave remaining and just want to be with each other as soon as we can, and therefore want to start the application this week.

 

[nyclon]

Hello,
My fiance (from Russia) and I are about to apply for a UK Fiancee visa for her and I am her sponsor. I think we just about have everything in order to start the application but was wondering if anyone here could help with a few things I'm VERY confused about on the VAF4A forms...
We are engaged to be married and miss each other like crazy, so want to get this right.
Ok here goes...

Firstly, regarding the Financial requirement form (Appendix 2 VAF4A)...
1. In section 1.16 it asks if we have been living in a relationship akin to marriage. Do we put yes, no, or not applicable. During her visits to the UK (twice) which total 22 days we did live in a relationship akin to marriage. We also speak to each other every day just like a married couple. But do UKBA see this as "living in a relationship"?

It's a one size fits all app used for fiancés, spouses and unmarried partners. This question would be for unmarried partners who must live together in a relationship akin to marriage for 2 years or more. You answer no.

2. 1.19 asks have you lived with your sponsor. Does her staying with me at my home and holidaying in hotels during her 22 days here count as living with me?

No. Same as above.

3. Section 1.20 asks if either of us is married? She has never been married, BUT I am currently separated, but my divorce proceedings will be finalised in September. It's being processed in the Australian Court system which only requires one person to want a divorce and it is granted. I will be divorced and have divorce certificate on October 17. I have a letter from my Aussie solicitor stating all these facts and this letter will go into the application. Because I am actually separated and have been for over one year, do I put YES to this question? As far as the UKBA is concerned if I'm separated (to them) does that mean I am still married until divorced?

If you're still married you answer yes.

4. In section 1.21 it then asks have you or your sponsor been in a previous marriage? So, do I put this as a previous marriage again? Also I was married/divorced in the 1990's, do I also put this relationship on the form also? I have a divorce certificate for this first marriage thankfully.

Yes you put yes and you need to provide your divorce papers.

5.Question 3.2 (Calculating...) seems to contradict itself. I have a daughter 5 (who is a British citizen) from my marriage/separation, and I pay maintenance. She does not live with me but I see her every other weekend. From what I see in ths section 3.2 it says..."taking account of any child dependents under the age of 18 your sponsor is already financially responsible for in the UK. Then it says children who are British Citizens or not subject to UK immigration control do not need to be considered when calculating the financial requirement. SO, I assume this means I put "Applying with no child dependents under 18. Is that correct? So confusing and poorly worded.

The section refers to children you will be sponsoring so this obviously doesn't apply to you.

6. Section 3.22 does not make sense. I already answer YES to 3.21, but question 3.22, (and although I have been with my employer over 4 years) it asks "if your sponsor has not been employed by the same employer for 6 months prior to the application does their total income (before tax) from salaried employment received in the 12 months prior to your application meet or exceed the financial requirement you must meet? ??????so strange? It does not apply but I don't want to leave it blank.

It doesn't apply to you leave it blank.

7. What is the MAINTENANCe section for? I have completed section 3, does that mean I do not have to answer anything in section 4 (Maintenance).???

This doesn't apply to you and is for those who are exempt because they are receiving DLA and some other things.

And then on the main VAF4A form:
1. If I am her sponsor and I meet the financial requirements does she need to supply documents such as letter from her employer, payslips etc? None of this seems to be clearly explained.

Nothing about her pay or employment is necessary.

 

[signifi]

Nyclon, thank you so much for posting this info for us. You have taken quite a lot of stress off my mind. I see now why these questions are one size fits all.
I was told that by having a letter from my divorce lawyer (in Australia) outlining the exact nature of my current divorce proceedings (and how very simple it is in Australia compared to the UK) and the date when divorce will complete (October 17) that this will be sufficient to explain that my divorce is proceeding and should suffice.
I've also been told that the online VAF4A form ONLINE is different from the PAPER/PRINTED version?
When my fiancee applies online I believe she prints that before submitting, but my other question is, does she also fill in the Appendix 2 (Financial Requiremen form) online or does that get printed and filled out in paper form?
Sorry for all the questions.

 

[signifi]

I also read in the UKBA guidance notes that they cannot refuse you simply without a divorce certificate alone. It was a discussion with a long serving, London based Immigration lawyer who said the letter from a solicitor should be shown to be outlining the divorce proceedings are in progress, and showing an estimated and/or actual date of when this divorce will be finalised, is actually sufficient for the application.
Has anyone else had a similar experience?

 

[Joppa]

I have noticed in recent threads that someone poses a question and asks for answers. When one of the regulars replies, out comes the statement that they have already consulted an immigration professional and have been advised, and loudly proclaims how the forum reply contradicts professional guidance.

I consider this to be both discourteous and disingenuous. If you want to use the forum as a second opinion, you should first STATE what the professional advice was, and then ask for confirmation or alternative suggestions. Playing professionals off against forum regulars, who don't have the advantage of professional training and detailed knowledge of the case, isn't on, and I will start moderating by closing or deleting such threads. You have been warned.

 

[signifi]

I have noticed in recent threads that someone poses a question and asks for answers. When one of the regulars replies, out comes the statement that they have already consulted an immigration professional and have been advised, and loudly proclaims how the forum reply contradicts professional guidance.

I consider this to be both discourteous and disingenuous. If you want to use the forum as a second opinion, you should first STATE what the professional advice was, and then ask for confirmation or alternative suggestions. Playing professionals off against forum regulars, who don't have the advantage of professional training and detailed knowledge of the case, isn't on, and I will start moderating by closing or deleting such threads. You have been warned.

My apologies Joppa, I did not mean to be discourteous. This advice was given to me by a London adviser who only offered very limited UK immigration advice free of charge and then wanted to charge a lot of money for further advice. That is why I did not seek further advice from him and turned to the expertise of some of the great people on this forum. I sincerely did not mean to upset anybody and greatly appreciate all advice received on this forum.

 

[Joppa]

Next time, first state you have consulted a professional advisor and what their reply was before asking forum regulars for answers and suggestions.

 

[signifi]

Joppa, what is your opinion on me using this letter from my Australian based solicitor? It explains that my divorce proceedings are underway and that I will be divorced in October. Australia has a far simpler divorce law than the UK and so essentially if one person wants a divorce they get it.

 

[nyclon]

You're still considered married until you actually receive a divorce. You should include the documentation which says that your divorce is proceeding but it doesn't change the fact that you're still married and should answer yes to that question.

 

[signifi]

Ok. Thanks for clarifying Nyclon. So in your opinion do you think this solicitor's letter explaining that my divorce is in procedure and will have a simple outcome, will be enough to satisfy the ECO dealing with the application?

 

[nyclon]

I don't think going through a divorce, i.e. not being single, is grounds for refusal for a fiancé visa but obviously you can't get married until you have paperwork to prove that you are in fact divorced.

 

[signifi]

Great. That's what I needed to hear. Thank you Nyclon, you've been wonderfully helpful with all my questions and concerns. My solicitor has written a very concise letter outlining that my divorce proceeding started last month and that the Australian (legal) family court system operates a very simple process for divorce; and she also gave a clear indication that the divorce will be final in October this year. I hope this is enough for the application?
My fiance will be applying next week, which with current process times, hopefully will mean her joining me in October.

 

[Joppa]

Home Office want a confirmation that your divorce is in its last stage with a projected date for degree absolute. If your solicitor can provide that, it should be sufficient. On the day you arrive in UK, your divorce must of course have been made absolute.

 

[signifi]

It will be my fiance arriving in the UK, not me. I should clarify, I already live in the UK as a British citizen, she is Russian and applying for the UK Fiance Visa. Will she need a copy of my Decree Absolut when she arrives in UK? How does this work?

 

[Joppa]

No, but you must be free to marry when your fiancé arrives. Home Office will require confirmation of this, and if your divorce isn't through, you need to supply a solicitor's letter indicating when your degree absolute is due.

 

[signifi]

I see, thanks Joppa. Yes I already have a letter from my Australian solicitor explaining clearly that my divorce is due in the middle of September and that I will receive divorce papers in October.

 

[signifi]

Appendix 2 Q1.19

It's a one size fits all app used for fiancés, spouses and unmarried partners. This question would be for unmarried partners who must live together in a relationship akin to marriage for 2 years or more. You answer no.


Quote:
2. 1.19 asks have you lived with your sponsor. Does her staying with me at my home and holidaying in hotels during her 22 days here count as living with me?
No. Same as above.

Hmmmmmm. BUT....it actually asks, if you put NO please give reasons why you have not lived together.

Would it be acceptable to put...
I live in Russia, and my fiancee lives in the United Kingdom. We have only stayed or
been together while I visited him during the two times I flew to England to visit
him on my Visitor Visa. I am applying for a Fiance Visa.

 

[nyclon]

Don't over think it. You've visited each other. You haven't lived together. You haven't lived together because you live in different countries.

 

[signifi]

Thanks Nyclon. Another quick one. 2.7 in Appendix 2 asks if anyone else other than your sponsor lives at the property? My daughter stays with me for one night every 2 weeks. Is that classed as "living" at the property? Not sure if I should put yes or no here? She lives with her mum most of the time obviously.

 

[Joppa]

No she doesn't.