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Discussion Starter #1
Ladies and Gentlemen,

The history of the Jewish people across the world is one of achievement and resilience.

It is a story of a people who have refused to succumb to discrimination and persecution.

Like many people who have suffered because of prejudice, the fortitude of the Jewish people has been forged in the hardest of times, and has been at the heart of efforts to build successful communities.

In South Africa, the Jewish community has played a significant part in building our country in various fields.

These include business, labour, science, literature, culture, community work and politics.


We all know that many within the Jewish community have played a prominent role in the struggle for democracy and freedom in our country.

Though part of the privileged white minority, many Jewish people dedicated their lives to the advancement of the rights of the oppressed majority.
Politicsweb - DOCUMENTS - We need skilled South Africans to return - Jacob Zuma

Living up to expectations in Palestine after a huge exodus from Johannesburg late 1980's and early 1990's.
 

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Sense of Humour ??

Politicsweb - DOCUMENTS - We need skilled South Africans to return - Jacob Zuma

Living up to expectations in Palestine after a huge exodus from Johannesburg late 1980's and early 1990's.
Where is the sense of Humour, what do you mean??
Are you sayin the Jews (Helen Suzman etc.) did not contribute to the demise of apartheid?
Are you saying that the doctors, lawyers, professors at Wits and UCT did NOT contribute to the betterment of S.A?

WHAT ARE YOU SAYING?
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Danny, no, it’s not that I don’t acknowledge that some Jewish citizens of South Africa made an effort to bring an end to discrimination, many other groups, even some white Afrikaners, were dedicated and supported Mandela’s struggle.

It is the ambiguity of British and Jewish life during the Apartheid era in South Africa that I query.

Oppenheimer's family was reported to be worth $2.5 billion, according to Forbes magazine's 1997 list of the world's super-rich.
Oppenheimer, arguably South Africa's most respected businessman, was a vocal opponent of his country's racist regime that sanctioned apartheid for decades.
"Disagreeable though it may be, we must admit that the racial policy which has been pursued here over the last 40 years has made South Africa stink in the nostrils of decent, humane people around the world," Oppenheimer said in a speech in 1989.
But Oppenheimer's role as the leading businessman in South Africa made his position within the racist regime ambiguous.
His labor-intensive mines thrived on a migrant labor system that forced black workers to live apart from their families, and his companies paid black workers far less than whites.

His economic success was considered crucial to the survival of the apartheid government, which ruled until South Africa's first all-race elections in 1994.
The Oppenheimer dynasty began in 1917, when Harry Oppenheimer's father, Ernest, founded the Anglo American Corp., a mining company. Ernest Oppenheimer took control of De Beers in 1929.
Harry Oppenheimer; Led Diamond Giant - Los Angeles Times

One of the most influential campaigners against the "Jew-imperialist design" in South Africa was John A. Hobson (1858-1940), a prominent journalist and economist.

In 1899 the Manchester Guardian sent him to South Africa to report first-hand for its readers on the situation there. During his three month investigation, Hobson became convinced that a small group of Jewish "Randlords" was essentially responsible for the strife and conflict.

In a Guardian article dispatched from Johannesburg just a few weeks before the outbreak of the war, he told readers of the influential liberal daily:

In Johannesburg the Boer population is a mere handful of officials and their families, some five thousand of the population; the rest is about evenly divided between white settlers, mostly from Great Britain, and the [native black] *******, who are everywhere in White Man's Africa the hewers of wood and the drawers of water.

The town is in some respects dominantly and even aggressively British, but British with a difference which it takes some little time to understand. That difference is due to the Jewish factor. If one takes the recent figures of the census, there appears to be less than seven thousand Jews in Johannesburg, but the experience of the street rapidly exposes this fallacy of figures. The shop fronts and business houses, the market place, the saloons, the "stoops" of the smart suburban houses and sufficient to convince one of the large presence of the chosen people. If any doubt remains, a walk outside the Exchange, where in the streets, "between the chains," the financial side of the gold business is transacted, will dispel it.

So far as wealth and power and even numbers are concerned Johannesburg is essentially a Jewish town. Most of these Jews figure as British subjects, though many are in fact German and Russian Jews who have come to Africa after a brief sojourn in England. The rich, rigorous, and energetic financial and commercial families are chiefly English Jews, not a few of whom here, as elsewhere, have Anglicised their names after true parasitic fashion. I lay stress on this fact because, though everyone knows the Jews are strong, their real strength here is much underestimated. Though figures are so misleading, it is worth while to mention that the directory of Johannesburg shows 68 Cohens against 21 Joneses and 53 Browns.

The Jews take little active part in the Outlander agitation; they let others do that sort of work. But since half of the land and nine-tenths of the wealth of the Transvaal claimed for the Outlander are chiefly theirs, they will be chief gainers by an settlement advantageous to the Outlander.
The Boer War Remembered


Barney Barnato, a dapper, vulgar fellow from London's East End (born Barnett Isaacs), was one of the first of many Jews who have played a major role in South African affairs. Through pluck and shrewd maneuvering, by 1887 he presided over an enormous South African financial-business empire of diamonds and gold.

In 1888 he joined with his chief rival, Cecil Rhodes, who was backed by the Rothschild family of European financiers, in running the De Beers empire, which controlled all South African diamond production, and thereby 90 percent of the world's diamond output, as well as a large share of the world's gold production.note 3 (

In the 20th century, the De Beers diamond cartel came under the control of a German-Jewish dynasty, the Oppenheimers, who also controlled its gold-mining twin, the Anglo-American Corporation. With its virtual world monopoly on diamond production and distribution, and grip on a large part of the world's gold production, the billionaire family has ruled a financial empire of unmatched global importance. It also controlled influential newspapers in South Africa. So great was the Oppenheimers' power and influence in South Africa that it rivaled that of the formal government.)
The Boer War Remembered


SA millionaire John Schlesinger:

At 40 Schlesinger is only beginning. Though his social life has not appreciably slowed down, he has proved himself as industrious on the job as his father. His working day begins at 8:30 a.m., and even on vacation he runs the show from an office on his converted British Fairmile motor torpedo boat. A U.S. Air Force bombardier during World War II, Schlesinger renounced his American citizenship in 1947 (his American wife won a legal separation from him in 1958). Now a South African citizen, he has no use for apartheid. "There will have to be changes here," he says. "The government's policy of separate development is not the answer. South Africa must eventually become multiracial, but in the first instance whites will have to play the dominant role." He is busy doing just that.
South Africa: His Father's Son - TIME

Doing what? All of them publicly “supported” the Anti Apartheid struggle but fully utilized the cheap black labour to grow their own fortunes. Harry Oppenheimer was one of the richest men on earth. These people were powerful enough to bring about change in South Africa by merely equalizing the salaries of their labour force, but they did not. Why?

John Schlesinger, like thousands of other unbelievably wealthy British and Jewish families, strangely departed from South Africa around 1994, just before or after the release of Mandela. It does not make sense, why leave the country when the struggle and dream you have supported for years was about to become a reality?
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Where is the sense of Humour, what do you mean??
Are you sayin the Jews (Helen Suzman etc.) did not contribute to the demise of apartheid?
Are you saying that the doctors, lawyers, professors at Wits and UCT did NOT contribute to the betterment of S.A?

WHAT ARE YOU SAYING?
Continued...

Is it realistic to believe that 4 million whites, mostly ordinary farm folk, had the power, money and military ability to keep 45 million blacks in control?

Do the math, at an estimated 1:11 white: black ratio, what chance did they stand? The exploitation of dirt cheap labour resources to mine the abundant, african mineral resources could only have been a well planned strategy by huge financial powers with sophisticated military backing to enforce it.

It's no big secret that SA used Israeli intelligence in SA Border Control and Wars.

Brilliant marketing though, depict the SA white farmers as the source of the problem.

Many Jewish South Africans, both individuals and organizations, helped support the anti-apartheid movement.

Still, the Jewish Board of Deputies refused to take a stand against apartheid until 1985, arguing that it was not a Jewish one. The rabbinate also avoided taking a stance on the issue until the late 1980's.
Israel maintained diplomatic relations with South Africa throughout the period, as did most Arab countries, Taiwan, Belgium, and Britain. Despite the arms embargo, these countries sold arms to South Africa during the apartheid era. There have even been reports of nuclear cooperation. Various Israeli leaders publicly condemned the apartheid system. During the early 1960's, Israel aligned with other African countries against the apartheid system, straining its relationship with South Africa. After the Six-Day War in 1967, most African countries broke diplomatic ties with Israel, except for South Africa, and this led to increased relations between the two.

Jews prospered during the apartheid era, as did many non-Jewish white citizens. The Jewish population, however, contained a higher than usual percentage of college graduates. More than 50 percent of the Jews were matriculated, compared to the average 23% in the total white population. Ten percent of the Jewish community had university degrees, compared to only 4% of the total white population. Jews were disproportionately represented in the commercial and financial sectors of society.


Between 1970 and 1992, more than 39,000 Jews left South Africa, during this same period approximately 10,000 Israelis moved into the country.
The Virtual Jewish History Tour - South Africa



Is it by any coincidence that there is a monument to Harry Oppenheimer in Tel Aviv?

Harry Oppenheimer Diamond Museum | Harry Oppenheimer Diamond Museum, Tel Aviv, Israel | Whatsonwhen


Is it by coincidence that there are now strong references to Apartheid being practised on the Westbank?

'This is like apartheid': ANC veterans visit West Bank - Middle East, World - The Independent
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Its called grinding your axe on a public forum.....
Public Forums generally provide an opportunity for debate. You should really watch those sensitive British toes... but if the shoe fits....


Wouldn't it be great if British/EU Educational Institutions could in future teach subjects such as :

How to colonise without causing genocide
(Lord Kitchener would have excelled at that one)

The South African disaster could serve as a perfect case study, as long as the FACTUAL events are stated in proper, chronological order :


Introduction & Evolving of Apartheid under British Rule


1892 Franchise & Ballot Act, Black Vote limited by Finance & Education
1894 Natal Legislative Assembly, Denies Indians the right to vote

1905 Lagden Commission institutionalises Racism Later known as Apartheid. (Denies Blacks the right to vote, required to carry a pass, separate living areas)

1906 Asiatic Registration Act, Indians required to register & carry passes

1910 The South Africa Act Empowers Whites with complete political control over all other races
The Union of South Africa established a British Colony with a self governing Dominion within the British Empire

1913 Native Land Act, Restricts Blacks from owning land
1914 National Party founded, Afrikaner Nationalist Party formed

1918 Natives in Urban Areas Bill, Blacks forced into urban reserves known as "locations" (Much like Red Indian Reserves)

1923
Urban Areas Act, Enforces residential segregation providing cheap labour for white industry (fully utilised by Diamond and Gold Mining Groups such as De Beers and Anglo American, the Oppenheimer dynasty)

1926 Color Bar Act, Blacks cannot practice skilled trades
1927 Native Administration Act British Crown monopoly over African Affairs
1946 Asiatic Land Tenure Bill Prevents Land Sales to Indians



Perpetuation of Apartheid under white Afrikaner Nationalist Rule

1948 Nationalist Party wins elections Afrikaner Nationalists take power in SA, DF Malan as Prime Minister

1949 Prohibition of Mixed Marriages Act

1950 Population Registration Act, classifies South Africans by Race
Immorality Act prohibits sexual contact across colour barriers
Group Areas Act, Assigns racial groups to separate residential & business areas

1951 Separate Representation of Voters Act, Affects the Vote of people classed as "Colored'
Bantu Authorities Act, Principle of Blacks Reserves (Much like Red Iandian Reserves), known as 'Homelands'

1953
Bantu Education Act , Separate education for Blacks
Separate Amenities Act, prohibits different races from using same public amenities
Settlement of Disputes Act, prohibits Black Strike Action

1955
Group Areas Development Act

1956 Mines & Works Act, enforces racial discrimination on work level
Natives Act, Denies Blacks appeal to enforced removal

1957 Natives Church Act, expulsion of Blacks from Church services

1958 Hendrik Verwoerd Era, Verwoerd, known as the "Architect of Apartheid" becomes Prime Minister

1958 Promotion of Black self government independent Black homelands established, classifies Blacks into 8 ethnic groups

1961 South Africa declares independence, Becomes a Republic & withdraws from the British Commonwealth

Indemnity Act Relieves government officials from responsibility for Sharpeville Massacres

Source:

Apartheid South Africa by British Author, John Allen


As for the future, well, Politicians may come and go, but a diamond is forever.


But while the pundits debate the first year of the Mandela era, DeBeers continues to control 80 percent of the world's diamond trade, "with 50 percent of these diamonds by value coming from the company's own mines in South Africa, Botswana, and Namibia."50 Jonathan M.E. Oppenheimer, Harry Oppenheimer's grandson, the son of Nicholas F. Oppenheimer of Johannesburg, deputy chairman of the great mining giants, the Anglo-American Group and DeBeers Consolidated Mines, Ltd., the latter founded by Cecil Rhodes with the backing of the Rothschilds, represents the next generation of Oppenheimers as he continues his work as a management trainee at N.M. Rothschild & Sons in London.51 Politicians may come and go, but as the DeBeers ad claims on television, "a diamond is forever."
U.S. Policy in South Africa
 

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Why are you SPECIFICALLY targeting the Jews?

Are you saying that "PEOPLE LIKE YOU" and "YOUR FAMILY" are innocent of the so-called apartheid legacy, and that ONLY the "EVIL JEWS" who rejected the Mythical Christ should be sent back to the "Labour Camps in the East" to atone for the "great crimes against the native Africans".

Explain....'cos I don't get what you're saying.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Why are you SPECIFICALLY targeting the Jews?

Are you saying that "PEOPLE LIKE YOU" and "YOUR FAMILY" are innocent of the so-called apartheid legacy, and that ONLY the "EVIL JEWS" who rejected the Mythical Christ should be sent back to the "Labour Camps in the East" to atone for the "great crimes against the native Africans".

Explain....'cos I don't get what you're saying.

It’s a pity that you interpret my questions regarding the ambiguity of Jews as well as, the British, who formed an undeniably prominent part of South African society during the Apartheid era, as specifically targeting the "evil Jews". That was not the intention at all.

Rest assured though, you are in good company, being depicted as “evil” has been the fate of many nations. As far as South Africa goes, the white Afrikaner farmer, to date, still stands strongly “accused” and associated as being the major cause of the evil named Apartheid.

Misrepresentation of the white Afrikaner’s role in Apartheid (a smear campaign of massive proportion engineered by the very people who were the original architects of Apartheid) ensured that this concept was globally cemented into the minds of those just watching TV news, an audience unlikely to query the motivations of such a campaign over a dinner of bangers and mash. The White Afrikaners were not the architects of Apartheid, they were the perpetrators of Apartheid.

By the same token, the Black nations of Southern Africa have suffered misrepresentation on massive scale too, being portrayed as a savage, tribal society without structure, intellectually incapable of political and economical success.

It makes being called “evil Jews” almost mild in comparison.

The only prominent part of the complex South African Apartheid Society that seem to be free of condemnation or blame, are the British, the group that laid the cornerstone of Apartheid. Irrespective of historical facts, they live in total denial and accept no responsibility for their actions.

British High Commissioner Milner, with crucial "gold bug" backing, began secretly to foment a full-scale war to drag the Boer lands into the Empire. While publicly preparing to "negotiate" with President Kruger over the status of the "uitlanders," Milner was secretly confiding his intention to "screw" the Boers.
The Boer War Remembered

Were any British or Jewish Apartheid benefactors called to testify at the TRC (Truth and Reconciliation Commission), as were the white Afrikaner villains of Apartheid? Perhaps Harry Oppenheimer should have been summonsed to explain his actions:

But Oppenheimer's role as the leading businessman in South Africa made his position within the racist regime ambiguous.
His labor-intensive mines thrived on a migrant labor system that forced black workers to live apart from their families, and his companies paid black workers far less than whites.

His economic success was considered crucial to the survival of the apartheid government, which ruled until South Africa's first all-race elections in 1994.

Harry Oppenheimer; Led Diamond Giant - Los Angeles Times

I bear no personal loyalties to any groups of Apartheid South Africa, my ancestry is German. No need to explain the “evil” of being German to anyone, and the Germans resident in South Africa were even more evil, they slipped across Swaziland borders during the Apartheid era and produced dark, olive skinned children with wavy hair and piercing blue eyes, found to be totally unclassifiable in South Africa.

I just think it is time that, for the sake of a better understanding, Apartheid was analysed in more detailed perspective.

I wonder if the Oppenheimer family will publically voice their protest against BEE as they did with Apartheid? Will we see the equivalent of a Helen Suzman rise against this Racist policy implemented by the ANC? Are the strong comparisons to Apartheid on the West Bank in Palestine an indication that perhaps, there were some Jews that were not as partial to racial integration as Helen Suzman would have want the world to believe? Helen Suzman courted Nelson Mandela, who represented the ANC, well known for it’s communistic agenda. Yet on the South African borders, South Africans were fighting communism with the aid of these overseas countries?

Israel maintained diplomatic relations with South Africa throughout the period, as did most Arab countries, Taiwan, Belgium, and Britain. Despite the arms embargo, these countries sold arms to South Africa during the apartheid era.
The Virtual Jewish History Tour - South Africa

It’s not as if there were no other highly elligible black candidates available for election:

Buthelezi appealed to those who never had any use for white liberals like Helen Suzman, whose Liberal party had been outlawed, and who maintained a life of luxury in the midst of a system she purported to detest. As the cast of "Wait A Minim," the South African musical comedy mocked, "the only thing the liberals hate more than apartheid is the blacks."

Buthelezi, highly intelligent and articulate, played the role of the radical conservative, to the increasing attention of the United States. Capable of appearing fiercely traditional in tribal dress one minute, and handsome and immaculate in a Saville Row suit the next, Buthelezi began to capture the imagination of the power brokers. He not only spoke all the languages of South Africa, he seemed to speak to the economic and political needs of the country, with its astonishing diversity, as well. There was a vacuum and he appeared to be the only player capable of filling it. With Buthelezi and his ideas for a federal republic of South Africa, investment would be safe, and whites and blacks could be placated. Even his appeal to royalty, his professed loyalty to the King of the Zulus, Goodwill Zwelethini (also his nephew), impressed whites who sought modest change in the context of stability, and blacks, for whom royalty had always held a certain attraction as a dimension of African pride.
U.S. Policy in South Africa

But let’s get back to British hypocrisy and their denial about being benefactors of Apartheid. Will we see the British/EU propaganda machine passionately produce more films (ie Cry Freedom) and inspire more global protest initiatives against current Racism in Reverse and Genocide in Southern Africa?
 

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Your post above said -
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the most influential campaigners against the "Jew-imperialist design" in South Africa was John A. Hobson (1858-1940), a prominent journalist and economist.

In 1899 the Manchester Guardian sent him to South Africa to report first-hand for its readers on the situation there. During his three month investigation, Hobson became convinced that a small group of Jewish "Randlords" was essentially responsible for the strife and conflict.

In a Guardian article dispatched from Johannesburg just a few weeks before the outbreak of the war, he told readers of the influential liberal daily:

In Johannesburg the Boer population is a mere handful of officials and their families, some five thousand of the population; the rest is about evenly divided between white settlers, mostly from Great Britain, and the [native black] *******, who are everywhere in White Man's Africa the hewers of wood and the drawers of water.

The town is in some respects dominantly and even aggressively British, but British with a difference which it takes some little time to understand. That difference is due to the Jewish factor. If one takes the recent figures of the census, there appears to be less than seven thousand Jews in Johannesburg, but the experience of the street rapidly exposes this fallacy of figures. The shop fronts and business houses, the market place, the saloons, the "stoops" of the smart suburban houses and sufficient to convince one of the large presence of the chosen people. If any doubt remains, a walk outside the Exchange, where in the streets, "between the chains," the financial side of the gold business is transacted, will dispel it.

So far as wealth and power and even numbers are concerned Johannesburg is essentially a Jewish town. Most of these Jews figure as British subjects, though many are in fact German and Russian Jews who have come to Africa after a brief sojourn in England. The rich, rigorous, and energetic financial and commercial families are chiefly English Jews, not a few of whom here, as elsewhere, have Anglicised their names after true parasitic fashion. I lay stress on this fact because, though everyone knows the Jews are strong, their real strength here is much underestimated. Though figures are so misleading, it is worth while to mention that the directory of Johannesburg shows 68 Cohens against 21 Joneses and 53 Browns.

The Jews take little active part in the Outlander agitation; they let others do that sort of work. But since half of the land and nine-tenths of the wealth of the Transvaal claimed for the Outlander are chiefly theirs, they will be chief gainers by an settlement advantageous to the Outlander. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This kind of thinking about the Jews running the world and "Johannesburg" was rampant at the time (1899) that John Hobson journalised his Johannesburg visit. It's what people in Europe and Britain wanted to hear and it sold newspapers. It's what influenced the young Adolf Schicklgruber to persue a career in politics and what he discovered was THE way to gain votes for his Nationalist Socialist Worker Party, in a post war Germany. It is chronicled very well in a book called "The Politics of Hate: Anti-Semitism, History, and the Holocaust in Modern Europe".
(a highly recommended book by the way).

Britain didn't care then, and it doesn't care now what it did to other people in other countries (India, Palestine etc.). The Afrikaners did get and still are getting a raw deal, and it's an outright shame, but before 1948 the dirt poor Afrikaners were living side by side with the "Africans" and not in a GOOD way according to the Afrikaner elders (Church leaders and people higher up in the Afrikaner hierarchy).

White Afrikaner children ran around with snotty noses, barefoot playing in the bush with their neighbours who happened to be other dirt poor blacks. There was a lot of racial mixing. For the sake of not losing the Afrikaner as a nation (and I don't have the links to this information anymore, you can google it) the elders decided that if they could rule the country, they would impliment a seperate development policy.
There was no hatred against the black man at that time by the Afrikaner, (pre 1948), it was solely to ensure that the Afrikaner would survive as a people.
Once in power however, due to corruption and greed the seperate development policies became nasty.

The Afrikaner however also attempted to seperate himself from other people living in South Africa at the time, such as the English, Jews, Portuguese, Chinese and Indians. Even in 1985 an Afrikaans girl from a "good family" marrying a "nice guy from Joburg" was frowned upon. God forbid if that "nice guy from Joburg happened to be Harry Cohen or the son of the local Rabbi".

The point is that a lot of people started seeing the Afrikaner as EXCLUSIVISTS, who did not want to mingle or associate with other people. This caused immense resentment amongst many of the English speaking South Africans. More so after the second world war when people learned or remembered that many amongst the Afrikaans volk had been pro-Germany, even though South Africa had been an ally of Britain.

Also from your email above -
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The rich, rigorous, and energetic financial and commercial families are chiefly English Jews, not a few of whom here, as elsewhere, have Anglicised their names after true parasitic fashion. I lay stress on this fact because, though everyone knows the Jews are strong, their real strength here is much underestimated.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Once again, "Anglicised names after true PARASITIC fashion" is typical of the thinking at the time. One only needs to read Henry Fords book "The International Jew" or Mein Kampf to confirm this.

From your posts, you appear to be very PRO Afrikaner, for whatever reason, and that is not a bad thing. As mentioned Seperate Development was a policy that they used to ensure the survival of their people. Does that make them evil,......No, it's what they thought was best for the Afrikaner at the time. It brought the Afrikaans people back into the modern world. They could get good jobs (mostly in the Government service), good schooling and leave the tent camps that many of them were living in at the time.

The British were an Empire at the time, so arrogance was the order of the day. Yes, they will never admit their crimes, but the colonies have come back to haunt them and they are paying dearly with massive third world immigration, Sharia Law being practised in their back yard, religious extremists born in Britain who hate and want to destroy the British way of life. Things don't bode well for the future of Britain (England).

As for the Jews, many do pay dearly for their crimes (Maddof comes to mind as well as others associated with the Enron and Worldcom companies that went bust), but here again to scapegoat an entire people for the crimes of a few is also insane, but sadly also the accepted order of the day.

Life Happens, people and especially people in power make mistakes.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Y
This kind of thinking about the Jews running the world and "Johannesburg" was rampant at the time (1899) that John Hobson journalised his Johannesburg visit. It's what people in Europe and Britain wanted to hear and it sold newspapers. It's what influenced the young Adolf Schicklgruber to persue a career in politics and what he discovered was THE way to gain votes for his Nationalist Socialist Worker Party, in a post war Germany. It is chronicled very well in a book called "The Politics of Hate: Anti-Semitism, History, and the Holocaust in Modern Europe".
(a highly recommended book by the way).

.
I don’t know whether the perception that Jews are running the world or, for that matter, Johannesburg, was in the past or present. There certainly seems to be a lot of powerful groups, world bankers and financiers, positioned far above the public face or power of politicians, that have dramatic impact on human existance on the planet. Whether they are Jewish or not is not really the point. (not mine anyway).

It is however a fact that Johannesburg, in it’s heyday, had a large representation of Jewish, British and Afrikaners as a priviledged elite. Johannesburg Northern Suburbs such as Berea, Yeoville, Killarney, Houghton, Rosebank, Westcliffe strongly represented wealthy Jewish families. Johannesburg (known comically as “Jewberg” at one stage) had an “English” image, whilst Roodepoort, Krugersdorp and Pretoria were the Afrikaner outposts.

The Afrikaner however also attempted to seperate himself from other people living in South Africa at the time, such as the English, Jews, Portuguese, Chinese and Indians. Even in 1985 an Afrikaans girl from a "good family" marrying a "nice guy from Joburg" was frowned upon. God forbid if that "nice guy from Joburg happened to be Harry Cohen or the son of the local Rabbi".

The point is that a lot of people started seeing the Afrikaner as EXCLUSIVISTS, who did not want to mingle or associate with other people. This caused immense resentment amongst many of the English speaking South Africans.

Correct, the extremely conservative Afrikaans families, much like the orthodox Jews, frowned upon association, marriage or accepting values of unfamiliar entities.

But good ‘ol hollywood style romances between SA Barbie Doll Anneline Kriel and Sol Kerzner or the controversial Jani Allan, who truly swung the pendulum between being married to Jewish businessman, Gordon Schachat and having an affair with Neo Nazi Eugene Terreblanche proved that money can cross just about any barriers.

More so after the second world war when people learned or remembered that many amongst the Afrikaans volk had been pro-Germany, even though South Africa had been an ally of Britain.
Many Afrikaner families and their descendants, who suffered the injustices of Kitchener’s schorched earth policy and in rememberance of thousands of Afrikaners who died horribly in the Boer War concentration camps, were openly anti British. Whether that influenced their pro German attitude I don’t know. Even in more modern South African times, there was always rivalry between the Afrikaners and the English in South Africa.

From your posts, you appear to be very PRO Afrikaner, for whatever reason, and that is not a bad thing. As mentioned Seperate Development was a policy that they used to ensure the survival of their people. Does that make them evil,......No, it's what they thought was best for the Afrikaner at the time.

Yes, during my search of credible knowledge (not necessarily googled textbook facts) to try and inform a totally, ignorant of their own colonial history and catastrophies, British audience, I surprised myself at almost wanting to defend the Afrikaner, something that conflicts totally with my personal and family convictions. I admit, I was in unfamiliar waters. And whilst I agree that the preservation of one’s own culture is not evil or incorrect, I think South Africa has taught us the lesson that it cannot be done at the exploitation, disrespect for or possible extermination of other cultures.

You on the other hand appear to be very PRO Jewish, which is also not a bad thing. Dr Zuma also thinks it is kiss and make up time, he has issued them a personal invitation to return.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
excellent post. dannyboy.
There you go Dannyboy, a pat on the back of someone you recently irritated the hell out of.

Daxk, I am very surprised to see you hanging out on a thread that is not really your "cup of tea" (for lack of an equivalent Irish expression). This thread is about people's perceptions, personal insight and interpretations of daily life in South Africa and specifically Johannesburg, emotional IQ, that sort of thing.

Very little googled, textbook facts here I'm afraid.
 

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This thread is about people's perceptions, personal insight and interpretations of daily life in South Africa and specifically Johannesburg, emotional IQ, that sort of thing.

Very little googled, textbook facts here I'm afraid. "

Actually,it appears to be your monologue.
but as I enjoy reading anyway, i'm hoping for something that might strike a chord or give me some new insight.
Nothing yet,I'm afraid. but Dannyboys post was good.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
but as I enjoy reading anyway, i'm hoping for something that might strike a chord or give me some new insight.
Nothing yet,I'm afraid.
Perhaps that is because you are not the intended audience, it's like watching a movie not intended for your age group.

And I agree, Danny made some excellent points, this one in particular is a stunner!. A point, strongly contested by your comrade, Halo.

Dannyboy:
The British were an Empire at the time, so arrogance was the order of the day. Yes, they will never admit their crimes, but the colonies have come back to haunt them and they are paying dearly with massive third world immigration, Sharia Law being practised in their back yard, religious extremists born in Britain who hate and want to destroy the British way of life. Things don't bode well for the future of Britain (England).
That explains/confirms why the British form the LARGEST group of immigrants in some of their ex colonies, especially New Zealand and Australia! Larger than any Asian Immigration group, now that is really interesting! And, contrary to popular belief, their presence in South Africa is on the rise, not on the decline (I've lost the link to that article unfortunately) but can vouch for the conspicious British Immigration to NZ and Australia.

Actually,it appears to be your monologue.
Yes, with the British being one of the largest immigration groups in the world, their presence on Expat Forums will reflect same, and this particular subject matter will not be considered easy dialogue.

Seeing that you love reading Daxk, it's time to brush up a little on the current rising, working, black middle class earning good money these days in SA, well nurtured by dr Zuma. A little climate Meteorology wouldn't go amiss either, comparing climates from a sunny, short wintered South Africa to bleak and rainy Ireland just don't gel.
 

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I don’t know whether the perception that Jews are running the world or, for that matter, Johannesburg, was in the past or present. There certainly seems to be a lot of powerful groups, world bankers and financiers, positioned far above the public face or power of politicians, that have dramatic impact on human existance on the planet.
Hello

well here's the thing, why the specific mention to Bankers? (with a subtle hint to JEWISH Bankers.

Remember a while back when Deputy Defense Secretary Paul D. Wolfowitz, a key architect of the Iraq war, was nominated by George Bush as head of the World Bank. Well the "white Supremist" groups in the U.S had a field day. Germans were polled on the streets of Hamburg and many said that they were "uncomfortable" having Wolfowitz in such a powerful position. Even the right wing moslem bunch were OUTRAGED by the appointment of PRO-ISRAELI Wolfowitz. The fact that the man could do the job was besides the point. Who he WAS, was more important than his ability or lack thereof.

Happily for all these folks, Wolfawitz didn't last long, and his departure convinced even more people on the planet that "those greedy and deceitful people" truly can't be trusted.

But why stop at the power of Jewish bankers.
Lets look further afield to other "areas of influence" to PROVE that there really is a WORLD CONSPIRACY by the Jews to take over the world.

Lets look at Music:
1) Leonard Bernstein in Classical music, George Gershwin, Isaac Stern, Yitzhak Perlman., not to mention all the violinists from Israel overrunning the planet.

2) In Modern Music, why, here we have - Burt Bacharach, Neil Diamond, Bob Dylan, Art Garfunkel, Neil Sedaka, Paul Simon, Bruce Springsteen, 3 of the members from KISS, Barbara Streisand, Robbie Robertson, Lou Reed, Leonard Cohen, all of the Beastie Boys, Van Halen: lead singer/founder David Lee Roth, Carole King, Carly Simon, Dire Straits: Mark Knopfler, Randy Newman, Kenny G, Lenny Kravitz, Andrew Dice Clay, Janis Ian, Barry Manilow, Bette Midler, Arlo Guthrie, Dave Bromberg, Billy Joel, Wallflowers: Jakob Dylan, Sha Na Na: Ritchie Joffe, Elliot Cahn, John "Bowser" Baumann, Manfred Mann, T Rex: Marc Bolan, Neil Sedaka -
It's an outrage,....how are non-jews supposed to compete with THIS BUNCH and get anywhere in the music industry?

And don't get me started on Jewish movie stars,.....now there's another WORLD CONSPIRACY in action -

Barbara Stresiand, David Arquette, Hank Azaria,
Matthew Broderick, Mel Brooks, George Burns, Billy Crystal, Tony Curtis, Rodney Dangerfield, Daniel Day-Lewis, Kirk Douglas, Michael Douglas, Robert DowneyJr., Richard Dreyfuss, David Duchovny, Peter Falk, Elliott Gould, Cary Grant, Harrison Ford, Goldie Hawn, Dustin Hoffman, Bette Midler, William Shatner, Alicia Silverstone, Ben Stiller.

What about Jewish Democrats currently IN POWER in the U.S -
Senator Barbara Boxer (California)
Senator Benjamin Cardin (Maryland)
Senator Russ Feingold (Wisconsin)
Senator Al Franken (Minnesota)
Senator Dianne Feinstein (California)
Senator Herb Kohl (Wisconsin)
Senator Frank Lautenberg (New Jersey)
Senator Joe Lieberman (Connecticut) (Independent)
Senator Carl Levin (Michigan)
Senator Bernard Sanders (Vermont) (Independent)
Senator Charles Schumer (New York)
Senator Arlen Specter (Senator, Pennsylvania)
Senator Ron Wyden (Oregon)

Man, this is scary stuff.

So in view of this, it would appear that the Jews are indeed running the world.

Global Warming, the current Economic meltdown, problems in Zimbabwe and South Africa, war in Iraq and Afghanistan and Sudan, drug cartels in South America, H1N1 and AIDS, heck even the Ebola Virus, diversity and racial mixing, liberalism, rapid growth of Islam in Africa and parts of Asia, uncontrollable non-white immigration to Europe, birth rates in third world countries, inability to find a cure for cancer, wasting money looking for water on Mars, Nuclear proliferation, ..........
ALL can be blamed on ONE and ONLY one group of people,.....come on,...say it isn't so. Yes,....it's them parasites. They did it.

Man I go down on my knees every Sunday in church and I thank the Good Lord that I'm not one of them....Oh My,.....I just realised,....................even the Good Lord,...when he visited the planet,........HE WAS "ONE OF THEM" !!!!!!!!!!!!.

Man, you just can't win.

Move on Jozi,.....you know as well as I do that the Jewish World Domination card is an old one that's been played so many times it's getting kinda tatty.

Just live your life happily with the people that you love and don't get distracted by things that don't matter. when you're on your deathbed thinking about what might have been, none of this B/S matters anyway.
 

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Just live your life happily with the people that you love and don't get distracted by things that don't matter. when you're on your deathbed thinking about what might have been, none of this B/S matters anyway.
How about

Nobel facts?

The Global Jewish population is approximately 14,000,000 or about 0.02% of the world population.

They received the following Nobel Prizes:

Literature:
1910 - Paul Heyse
1927 - Henri Bergson
1958 - Boris Pasternak
1966 - Shmuel Yosef Agnon
1966 - Nelly Sachs
1976 - Saul Bellow
1978 - Isaac Bashevis Singer
1981 - Elias Canetti
1987 - Joseph Brodsky 1991 - Nadine Gordimer World

Peace:
1911 - Alfred Fried
1911 - Tobias Michael Carel Asser
1968 - Rene Cassin
1973 - Henry Kissinger
1978 - Menachem Begin
1986 - Elie Wiesel
1994 - Shimon Peres
1994 - Yitzhak Rabin

Physics:
1905 - Adolph Von Baeyer
1906 - Henri Moissan
1910 - Otto Wallach
1915 - Richard Willstaetter
1918 - Fritz Haber
1943 - George Charles de Hevesy
1961 - Melvin Calvin
1962 - Max Ferdinand Perutz
1972 - William Howard Stein
1977 - Ilya Prigogine
1979 - Herbert Charle s Brown
1980 - Paul Berg
1980 - Walter Gilbert
1981 - Roald Hoffmann
1982 - Aaron Klug
1985 - Albert A. Hauptman
1985 - Jerome Karle
1986 - Dudley R. Herschbach
1988 - Robert Huber
1989 - Sidney Altman
1992 - Rudolph Marcus
2000 - Alan J. Heeger

Economics:
1970 - Paul Anthony Samuelson
1971 - Simon Kuznets
1972 - Kenneth Joseph Arrow
1975 - Leonid Kantorovich
1976 -! Milton Friedman
1978 - Herbert A. Simon
1980 - Lawrence Robert Klein
1985 - Franco Modigliani
1987 - Robert M. Solow
1990 - Harry Markowitz
1990 - Merton Miller
1992 - Gary Becker
1993 - Robert Fogel

Medicine:
1908 - Elie Metchnikoff
1908 - Paul Erlich
1914 - Robert Barany
1922 - Otto Meyerhof
1930 - Karl Landsteiner
1931 - Otto Warburg
1936 - Otto Loewi
1944 - Joseph Erlanger
1944 - Herbert Spencer Gasser
1945 - Ernst Boris Chain
1946 - Hermann Joseph Muller
1950 - Tadeus Reichstein
1952 - Selman Abraham Waksman
1953 - Hans Krebs
1953 - Fritz Albert Lipmann
1958 - Joshua Lederberg
1959 - Arthur Kornberg
1964 - Konrad Bloch
1965 - Francois Jacob
1965 - Andre Lwoff
1967 - George Wald
1968 - Marshall W. Nirenberg
1969 - Salvador Luria
1970 - Julius Axelrod
1970 - Sir Bernard Katz
1972 - Gerald Maurice Edelman
1975 - Howard Martin Temin
1976 - Baruch S. Blumberg
1977 - Roselyn Sussman Yalow
1978 - Daniel Nathans
1980 - Baruj Benacerraf
1984 - Cesar Milstein
1985 - Michael Stuart Brown
1985 - Joseph L. Goldstein 1986 - Stanley Cohen [& Rita Levi-Montalcini]
1988 - Gertrude Elion
1989 - Harold Varmus
1991 - Erwin Neher
1991 - Bert Sakmann
1993 - Richard J. Roberts
1993 - Phillip Sharp
1994 - Alfred Gilman
1995 - Edward B. Lewis

Physics:
1907 - Albert Abraham Michelson
1908 - Gabriel Lippmann
1921 - Albert Einstein
1922 - Niels Bohr
1925 - James Franck
1925 - Gustav Hertz
1943 - Gustav Stern
1944 - Isidor Issac Rabi
1952 - Felix Bloch
1954 - Max Born
1958 - Igor Tamm
1959 - Emilio Segre
1960 - Donald A. Glaser
1961 - Robert Hofstadter
1962 - Lev Davidovich Landau
1965 - Richard Phillips Feynman
1965 - Julian Schwinger
1969 - Murray Gell-Mann
1971 - Dennis Gabor
1973 - Brian David Josephson
1975 - Benjamin Mottleson
1976 - Burton Richter
1978 - Arno Allan Penzias
1978 - Peter L Kapitza
1979 - Stephen Weinberg
1979 - Sheldon Glashow
1988 - Leon Lederman
1988 - Melvin Schwartz
1988 - Jack Steinberger
1990 - Jerome Friedman
1995 - Martin Perl
 

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ALL can be blamed on ONE and ONLY one group of people,.....come on,...say it isn't so. Yes,....it's them parasites. They did it.
My! Poor little 'ol me just asking questions, I seem to have triggered an avalanche!

With such an impressive curriculum vitae of Jewish achievement you both supplied, are you surprised that Jacob Zuma is on bended knee begging them to return to South Africa and enrich the SA gene pool? The phrase return in this particular instance is very significant as it actually proves their impressive presence as major benefactors of Apartheid South Africa was not a figment of South African conspiracy imagination!

Furthermore, it also indicates that their impact on Apartheid South Africa was so dramatic that their absence is unbearable, especially those that fought so hard for the release of Mandela and then, in true soap opera style, a curious twist of fate, (the Hollywood factor), fled the country in their thousands just before his release! (somehow bypassing the extremely strict SA Exchange Control Regulations).

Please bring back that clever ambiguity into our gene pool, share it with us, teach us how. Renegades and Mavericks are not a concern anymore. White Afrikaner Farmer Ethnic cleansing, brutal slaying of Zimbabwean refugees and Aids will take care of all the unwanted elements still hanging on for dear life in that cesspool.

The big question of course is, are they willing to share? Never really been a strong point with this particular group of the priviledged white Apartheid elite. (strongly reminiscent of your point regarding the resentment caused by white Afrikaners being seen as exclusivists).

Two good looking, single, jewish sisters living in fashionable (at the time), Berea, Johannesburg apartments, their choice of marriage partners severely marginalized by their strict, rich Jewish father. Thou shalt marry thy own kind. They spent their weekends at Jewish single clubs, trying their best to mingle and be suited with the fragile unavailability of elligible Jewish men in their own age group. Shopping in Sandton, coffee shops in Hyde Park, Killarney, Cyrildene, Greenside. Lorraine was in her early forties, when, thank goodness, Manny came into her life and took her off the shelf but Lara, alas, she grew to be an old maid condemned to having affairs with her non Jewish lovers (I think they called them bagels?), waiting for the old man to kick the bucket.

They form such a small part of the talented, global population. By no means as expendable as the rest. whose sheer numbers send them all over the world, hunting for new homelands and recognition of their talents, as their own countries are in the process of being destroyed for one reason or another, a fate even the British have to face these days. Africa is being destroyed by stupid Africans you know, it has nothing to do with resource wars and exploitation. Who knows, maybe Africa has mass weapons of destruction?

Scary stuff? You forgot to include the Nobel prize for Peace List! Gasp! Judging by the 2009 appointment, it seems the criteria to receive the prize no longer includes proving ability first. And as for Henry Kissinger, Oi vei!

• 2009 - Barack Obama
• 2008 - Martti Ahtisaari
• 2007 - Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, Al Gore
• 2006 - Muhammad Yunus, Grameen Bank
• 2005 - International Atomic Energy Agency, Mohamed ElBaradei
• 2004 - Wangari Maathai
• 2003 - Shirin Ebadi
• 2002 - Jimmy Carter
• 2001 - United Nations, Kofi Annan
• 2000 - Kim Dae-jung
• 1999 - Médecins Sans Frontières
• 1998 - John Hume, David Trimble
• 1997 - International Campaign to Ban Landmines, Jody Williams
• 1996 - Carlos Filipe Ximenes Belo, José Ramos-Horta
• 1995 - Joseph Rotblat, Pugwash Conferences on Science and World Affairs
• 1994 - Yasser Arafat, Shimon Peres, Yitzhak Rabin
• 1993 - Nelson Mandela, F.W. de Klerk
• 1992 - Rigoberta Menchú Tum
• 1991 - Aung San Suu Kyi
• 1990 - Mikhail Gorbachev
• 1989 - The 14th Dalai Lama
• 1988 - United Nations Peacekeeping Forces
• 1987 - Oscar Arias Sánchez
• 1986 - Elie Wiesel
• 1985 - International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War
• 1984 - Desmond Tutu
• 1983 - Lech Walesa
• 1982 - Alva Myrdal, Alfonso García Robles
• 1981 - Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
• 1980 - Adolfo Pérez Esquivel
• 1979 - Mother Teresa
• 1978 - Anwar al-Sadat, Menachem Begin
• 1977 - Amnesty International
• 1976 - Betty Williams, Mairead Corrigan
• 1975 - Andrei Sakharov
• 1974 - Seán MacBride, Eisaku Sato
• 1973 - Henry Kissinger, Le Duc Tho



Man I go down on my knees every Sunday in church and I thank the Good Lord that I'm not one of them....Oh My,.....I just realised,....................even the Good Lord,...when he visited the planet,........HE WAS "ONE OF THEM" !!!!!!!!!!!!.

Yes, how can you forget, he was crowned KING OF THE JEWS when they crucified him!

Man, you just can't win.

Move on Jozi,.....you know as well as I do that the Jewish World Domination card is an old one that's been played so many times it's getting kinda tatty.

Just live your life happily with the people that you love and don't get distracted by things that don't matter. when you're on your deathbed thinking about what might have been, none of this B/S matters anyway.

In other words, sweep it under the carpet, then it’s out of sight, never mind the ambiguity, or else what, face cement boots or yet another mind boggling assassination?
 

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This has got to be the most boring thread I've ever red on the forum!!? Keep it clean and free from personal or racial insults wont you, otherwise I'll have to read thru it again, in fact if I've missed any already, I'm sorry, I fell asleep half way thru!! :eek::eek::eek:
Jo xxx
 
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