[gwcottrell]

Hi folks -

My daughter (15) is not picking up French as quickly as she would like. It is depressing flunking her exams because she doesn't understand the question! Does anyone know or have experience with finding a French tutor in Dijon?

thanks!
gary

 

[hils]

Oh .... how long have you all been here? 15? She's in 3ieme ?

What d'you mean by "flunking"? Your standards, hers, or the school's? How does she compare to her classmates? Just in French or in all subjects?

More info., please. Be aware that coming up to the Brevet, teachers typically mark down. Where the top mark might have been 18/20 in 6ieme, by the time they get to 3ieme, it's down to 12 or 13/20 - anything more than that is extraordinarily good, and the average is typically around 8 or 9/20, particularly in this term.

If your daughter's already in 2nde, the same rules hold - the marks are designed to spur the kids on - agreed it's not always the most effective of strategies, but most important is where she is in class ranking.

h

 

[gwcottrell]

Dear h -

Thanks for the info; I will check with the school about what is expected. But my request is still the same - I am looking for a French tutor in Dijon - do you know of one?

thanks!
gary

 

[hils]

No, I don't, but I do know a whole host of people in that area in the teaching world. I was asking because you may misunderstand the way the French schools operate and mark, but if you don't want to answer that's fine. Without the info I asked for, I can't and won't help you.

hils

 

[DejW]

If it helps the orginal poster I came across the difference between English and Fr marking systems when I was a part time business school prof in Rouen.

My approach was that if I gave 17/20 to a student I have the moral duty to explain to them what they have to change to get 20/20. Sometimes (not often!) I gave 20 / 20 because I could not see a realistic way of improving their work. This was seen as "incredible" by my French colleagues. Their approach was, I was told

20 / 20 for God
19/20 for the prof
18 / 20 not used
17 /20 if the student is incredibly lucky
16/20 top mark.

Therefore 12 and 13 / 20 seemed to "normal".

DejW

 

[gwcottrell]

Thanks - very interesting approach! At UCSD, the approach for grad students is that an A+ means they can teach the course....

in this case, I asked my daughter this morning what other kids got, and it was 4.5/5 or 4/5. She got 3/5, which I guess is not bad, given that she doesn't speak french yet...

g.

If it helps the orginal poster I came across the difference between English and Fr marking systems when I was a part time business school prof in Rouen.

My approach was that if I gave 17/20 to a student I have the moral duty to explain to them what they have to change to get 20/20. Sometimes (not often!) I gave 20 / 20 because I could not see a realistic way of improving their work. This was seen as "incredible" by my French colleagues. Their approach was, I was told

20 / 20 for God
19/20 for the prof
18 / 20 not used
17 /20 if the student is incredibly lucky
16/20 top mark.

Therefore 12 and 13 / 20 seemed to "normal".

DejW

 

[hils]

What help is the school giving your daughter?

Here, when we arrived, my daughter, aged 12, spoke no French. Three of her four weekly English lessons for the first term were replaced with a 1:1 with a French teacher of English, in support of the specialised CNED course in French for immigrant kids, which the school paid for. The course is designed for home study, with or without help, and is taken at the kid's own pace. The arrangement would have continued, but, by the beginning of the second term, my daughter's French was good enough to rejoin her class, and the other teachers started giving her less latitude.

It helped of course that I was working at the school as well (after 20-odd years of formal education in the UK in French) so her teachers were also my colleagues, and I was also on hand to help. That meant that, if difficulties did crop up - which they did, especially in Maths - my daughter had teacher/family friends to consult with. It also helped then that I understood the rationale and ethos of the school in respect of dishing out marks, rather than assessing them in a vacuum or against her previous performance in school in the UK.

Hence all my questions to you. At the very least, it'd be worth asking the school if they can enroll your daughter for the CNED course (& you can learn alongside .... ). NB it IS all in French because the course isn't origin-oriented, so it's teaching French in the way that allows the child to understand what's happening in a French classroom, with lots of pictures and tapes (think they were cassette tapes - probably moved to CD/DVDs by now).

h

 

[gwcottrell]

They are doing quite a bit - some of her classes are in English, and she is taking both French AND English as a second language ;-). The ESL class at least gives her a bit of relief during the day. So, tell me more about the CNED class - is it also available if you are *not* immigrating? We are just here until late June.

g.

What help is the school giving your daughter?

Here, when we arrived, my daughter, aged 12, spoke no French. Three of her four weekly English lessons for the first term were replaced with a 1:1 with a French teacher of English, in support of the specialised CNED course in French for immigrant kids, which the school paid for. The course is designed for home study, with or without help, and is taken at the kid's own pace. The arrangement would have continued, but, by the beginning of the second term, my daughter's French was good enough to rejoin her class, and the other teachers started giving her less latitude.

It helped of course that I was working at the school as well (after 20-odd years of formal education in the UK in French) so her teachers were also my colleagues, and I was also on hand to help. That meant that, if difficulties did crop up - which they did, especially in Maths - my daughter had teacher/family friends to consult with. It also helped then that I understood the rationale and ethos of the school in respect of dishing out marks, rather than assessing them in a vacuum or against her previous performance in school in the UK.

Hence all my questions to you. At the very least, it'd be worth asking the school if they can enroll your daughter for the CNED course (& you can learn alongside .... ). NB it IS all in French because the course isn't origin-oriented, so it's teaching French in the way that allows the child to understand what's happening in a French classroom, with lots of pictures and tapes (think they were cassette tapes - probably moved to CD/DVDs by now).

h

 

[hils]

It's not a class; it's a course. I just looked at the website but I can't find the details - might require a phone call, but the school should be able to find out about, or know, more. But, from what you say, is your daughter already in an International School, or in the Section Europeen of a regular school?

I'm sorry but I'm really trying to grasp where the problem is, and you're not giving much away ....

h

 

[gwcottrell]

The problem, in a nutshell, is that she doesn't know much French yet, isn't picking it up as fast as she would like, and I would like to find her a personal tutor. So, I am looking for resources to help me find that. Perhaps they will be able to help at Adosphere....

g.

It's not a class; it's a course. I just looked at the website but I can't find the details - might require a phone call, but the school should be able to find out about, or know, more. But, from what you say, is your daughter already in an International School, or in the Section Europeen of a regular school?

I'm sorry but I'm really trying to grasp where the problem is, and you're not giving much away ....

h

 

[PGandCS]

Hi Gary, how are you?
Have you tried looking on leboncoin? I have seen a few tutors advertising on there. Otherwise I would also suss out the uni. I'm sure that they would have language students looking for a little bit of work. Good luck!
Petra

 

[gwcottrell]

Hi Petra -

Thanks, I will try that! I forgot about "leboncoin"...

g.

Hi Gary, how are you?
Have you tried looking on leboncoin? I have seen a few tutors advertising on there. Otherwise I would also suss out the uni. I'm sure that they would have language students looking for a little bit of work. Good luck!
Petra

 

[DejW]

Rather than giving your daughter another class/course (and another headache), why not invest in something really cultural such as a visit to Macdonalds or a disco......with her 2 best French friends at school? She will find that more enjoyable and will probably learn quicker. Or sleepovers, or.......anything but something like school?

DejW

 

[gwcottrell]

Yes, well, that's a good idea, but she hasn't made sleepover-quality friends yet...

 

[DejW]

I think a question to ask yourself is "is it French language problem, or a problem of integrating into a new school?" Perhaps the answer is clear to you, but I think it's worth asking.

Changing schools can be traumatic for teenagers, I changed schools (parents moved house) at age 13 and it took a year to get back to my earlier homework / exam results. It's ok when everybody in the class is new, but when you are the single "new" one it can be difficult....and in a different language even more so.


DejW

Yes, well, that's a good idea, but she hasn't made sleepover-quality friends yet...