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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, does anyone have an email address for the tax man, general inquiries. I have trawled their website and can't find one. I am getting conflicting answers from professionals re fiscal residency so decided to write to the tax man myself, hoping for an answer in writing rather than a phone conversation.
Thanks
 

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For what region ? It doesn't have an email for head office only regional head offices.

On main page click on Direcciones y teléfonos;
then on next page; Delegaciones y Administraciones; ( This will be Provincial Offices and Administrations if using english )
next page choose region & click;
then choose a local office.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
it's for Ibiza, all it seemed to give me was telephone numbers for the local office. What I am trying to get is an answer in writing but from the Uk, the best way I can think is email.
I will have another look in a while once I have put my kids to bed.
Maybe the email address is missing on the English version??
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Isn't that like turkey's voting for Christmas :)
I hope not. As I am not resident yet I would like to plan ahead, too many different answers for the pro's so I have nothing to loose from a general enqueiry. At least that is my thinking. Would be anonymous of course.
 

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I hope not. As I am not resident yet I would like to plan ahead, too many different answers for the pro's so I have nothing to loose from a general enqueiry. At least that is my thinking. Would be anonymous of course.
What exactly is the issue? The law is very clear as to what is meant by fiscal-residency.

(1) If you are in Spain for more than 6 months (185 days) in any calendar year
or
(2) Have your centre of interest in Spain (main house, family etc.)


and I think that's about it.


Your specific situation might be more complex but those are the basic rules which can't be misinterpreted.

What it does allow for though, is that you can be considered (using the various laws) to be tax resident in the UK AND in Spain at the same time. In that instance the tax authorities will make a judgement based on the facts provided so that you will only be considered tax resident in one country.
 

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What exactly is the issue? The law is very clear as to what is meant by fiscal-residency. (1) If you are in Spain for more than 6 months (185 days) in any calendar year or (2) Have your centre of interest in Spain (main house, family etc.) and I think that's about it. Your specific situation might be more complex but those are the basic rules which can't be misinterpreted. What it does allow for though, is that you can be considered (using the various laws) to be tax resident in the UK AND in Spain at the same time. In that instance the tax authorities will make a judgement based on the facts provided so that you will only be considered tax resident in one country.
I agree, and I don't recall any questions which caused any confusion. Just to be pedantic though, it's 183 days not 185.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
ok, the kids going to school in Spain from September 2014, thus we don't qualify under the 183 day rule, the kids are young so don't need NIE's.

On there own website, the Hacienda have published in English-



An individual is resident in Spanish territory when any one of the following circumstances apply:

They have dependent not legally separated spouse and/or underage children who are usually resident in Spain. This latter situation accepts evidence to the contrary.

Agencia Tributaria - Residency issues



So it's not as clear cut as you may think, what is the evidence to the contrary?
Does the fact that my children start school in September make both myself and their mother resident even though we are still working and living in the UK?
So that is my question to them, and I would like an answer in writing. I have been told from a Spanish firm of Abogados and accountants that there is no reason for me to become fiscally resident in this situation. I am not so sure.
 

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I agree, and I don't recall any questions which caused any confusion. Just to be pedantic though, it's 183 days not 185.
and to be even more pedantic, like you I used to quote 183 days (or more than 182) but I was given a link to the law which clearly states 185 days so that is what I now quote.

(It was somebody on here I think and they proved me wrong - I was very surprised as I always thought it was "most of your time in Spain" which is clearly more than 365/2 days = 183)
 

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ok, the kids going to school in Spain from September 2014, thus we don't qualify under the 183 day rule, the kids are young so don't need NIE's.

On there own website, the Hacienda have published in English-



An individual is resident in Spanish territory when any one of the following circumstances apply:

They have dependent not legally separated spouse and/or underage children who are usually resident in Spain. This latter situation accepts evidence to the contrary.

Agencia Tributaria - Residency issues



So it's not as clear cut as you may think, what is the evidence to the contrary?
Does the fact that my children start school in September make both myself and their mother resident even though we are still working and living in the UK?
So that is my question to them, and I would like an answer in writing. I have been told from a Spanish firm of Abogados and accountants that there is no reason for me to become fiscally resident in this situation. I am not so sure.


Surely, if your children are going to school in Spain then Spain is their main residence. I also assume that one of the parents will be in Spain to look after them. I accept that you both may work in UK and separately live in UK for more than 6 months but your "centre of interest" is clearly Spain.

For the 183 day rule alone, I agree, you would not be considered tax resident for 2014. But then the other rule kicks in so maybe you are.

From the link you gave, it is clear that you are tax-resident by rules 2 and 3.

The fact that you work in UK has nothing to do with whether you are tax-resident here or not!

Also, our children DID need NIE's when they went to school.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
For what region ? It doesn't have an email for head office only regional head offices.

On main page click on Direcciones y teléfonos;
then on next page; Delegaciones y Administraciones; ( This will be Provincial Offices and Administrations if using english )
next page choose region & click;
then choose a local office.
would this be the right email address for my quest?

[email protected]
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Rules 1 and 2 would not be of issue in my case, only 3 would. But it is the statement 'This latter situation accepts evidence to the contrary' that I am questioning.

My understanding is that your children would be of secondary school age, thus the NIE.

So, does anyone know the contrary evidence that is accepted, my kids could have a nanny and grand parents.
 

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Rules 1 and 2 would not be of issue in my case, only 3 would. But it is the statement 'This latter situation accepts evidence to the contrary' that I am questioning.

My understanding is that your children would be of secondary school age, thus the NIE.

So, does anyone know the contrary evidence that is accepted, my kids could have a nanny and grand parents.
my children were 5 & 8 when they started state school here - they needed NIEs

the schools in my area, certainly, ask for resident registration certificates - so they'll have NIEs


all of which is irrelevant - they will simply be resident here because they are at school here
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
my kids didn't need NIE's last year, they were 4 and 8 and went to school without. Whilst they maybe considered resident, what do you think the evidence to the contrary as published by the Hacienda could be that would not require me being resident?
I feel the only way I may get an answer is from the Hacienda itself
 

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and to be even more pedantic, like you I used to quote 183 days (or more than 182) but I was given a link to the law which clearly states 185 days so that is what I now quote. (It was somebody on here I think and they proved me wrong - I was very surprised as I always thought it was "most of your time in Spain" which is clearly more than 365/2 days = 183)
I think that may have been me, but we were posting about driving licence IIRC, and I said the rules kick in after 185 days. You queried this and said it was 183 and I gave you a link to 818/2009 where it states 185 days. Tax is definitely 183 days and is also stated in a Real Decree. Why they have two different days I have no idea, but I am only the messenger :)
 

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I think that may have been me, but we were posting about driving licence IIRC, and I said the rules kick in after 185 days. You queried this and said it was 183 and I gave you a link to 818/2009 where it states 185 days. Tax is definitely 183 days and is also stated in a Real Decree. Why they have two different days I have no idea, but I am only the messenger :)
what's your take on the OP's position re tax residency?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
This is the latest correspondence from a firm of abogados I have recieved, thus my questions on this tread


'There is no need to register that you are residents if you are in the country just because your children are at school especially when you are travelling back and forth out of the country. Obviously there will come a time when it will be necessary especially for the children when they are in secondary school and will require their own NIE Nos and be issued social security numbers.'

It was sent in an email on Friday but I need to be sure, thus the email to Hacienda idea.
 

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ok, the kids going to school in Spain from September 2014, thus we don't qualify under the 183 day rule, the kids are young so don't need NIE's. On there own website, the Hacienda have published in English- An individual is resident in Spanish territory when any one of the following circumstances apply: They have dependent not legally separated spouse and/or underage children who are usually resident in Spain. This latter situation accepts evidence to the contrary. Agencia Tributaria - Residency issues So it's not as clear cut as you may think, what is the evidence to the contrary? Does the fact that my children start school in September make both myself and their mother resident even though we are still working and living in the UK? So that is my question to them, and I would like an answer in writing. I have been told from a Spanish firm of Abogados and accountants that there is no reason for me to become fiscally resident in this situation. I am not so sure.
I think the problem you will have is that they are looking for evidence to the contrary that you don't have your residence in Spain, because they assume that you do, because of the children living here. Generally, all tax authorities will only answer questions about your actual circumstances not hypothetical occurrences. So for example, you may work in the live in the UK during the week, but will you be in Spain at weekends, either together or you one week, your wife the next, and if that has happened, they will tell you your status, but if you ask what it would be if you did that, I don't think they would tell you, and even if they did, another may tell you differently. They certainly, IMHO, won't put it in writing, in the circumstances you describe. For one thing, what happens if there are changes in the way they interpret regulations. They won't commit themselves, and I don't think I would either. As I see it, you have to rely on professional advice Presumably you have that in writing. I think you have to be very careful, if you are trying to avoid being resident.
 
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