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Hiya mate,

I think you may have made a mistake from the article.

It says "first and second of shawwal"

Shawwal being the lunar month after Ramadan.

Shawwal 1 is likely Sunday (possibly Monday depending on interpretations on which locations will be sighting the moon). It is impossible for it to be Saturday.

So it'll be Sun/Mon or Mon/Tues for private firms (provided this article is correct).

Hope this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hiya mate,

I think you may have made a mistake from the article.

It says "first and second of shawwal"

Shawwal being the lunar month after Ramadan.

Shawwal 1 is likely Sunday (possibly Monday depending on interpretations on which locations will be sighting the moon). It is impossible for it to be Saturday.

So it'll be Sun/Mon or Mon/Tues for private firms (provided this article is correct).

Hope this helps.
Oh, OK, so that means the first day or Eid is probably Sunday then?

Excuse my ignorance, I sort of looked at (in my western way)

Abu Dhabi: Eid Al Fitr holidays for the public sector will be from Saturday, Ramadan 29th (September 19th), until Shawwal 3rd, according to Cabinet decision No.17 for 2009 issued on April 26, 2009.

Work at government departments will resume on Shawwal 4th.
So that means Shawwal 1 is (probably) Sunday, Shawwal 4 (when they go back is (probably) Wednesday?

So holidays are sat, sun, mon for normal employers and an extra day for gov depts.

Sorry for the inaccuracy.
 

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No prob.

Ramadan can only have 29 or 30 days, which as a result means 1 Shawwal will either be Sunday or Monday.

A section of the world will see the birth of the moon on the Saturday night, but whether they will acknowledge that, or not is down to politics, interpretations etc.

Public sector therefore will be Saturday (29th Rm) to Wed (3rd Shwl) but if Sunday is seen as 30th of Ramadan and not 1 Shawwal, then they'd get an extra day (Thursday)

So for private sector, you are definitely off on Monday, and will either have Sunday off, or Tuesday off, depending on whether Sunday is Ramadan 30 (last possible day), or Shawwal 1 (Eid day) subject to the moon interpretation on Saturday night.
 

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It's confusing as the holiday starts at sunset.
Eid should start at sunset on 19th September 2009 (depending on the little guys in the desert moon spoting) so the following days are holidays / non work days.
Sunday / Monday / Tuesday for government works and Sunday / Monday for private companies.
So with the the weekend the public sector will be closed for 5 days.
 

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Yeah, you lot are confusing us, which is which? Maybe the educated knowledgeable moderators should throw more light here!!!
 

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@Suey

Presuming that article is correct. (for the third time)

Private sector

If Eid is Sunday, then you have Sunday+Monday off

If Eid is Monday, then you have Monday+Tuesday off.


Presumably you are aware that the Islamic months are based on the sighting of the moon the previous night, which is why there is a possibility of it being either of 2 days

There are no other explanations! lol
 

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@Suey

Presuming that article is correct. (for the third time)

Private sector

If Eid is Sunday, then you have Sunday+Monday off

If Eid is Monday, then you have Monday+Tuesday off.


Presumably you are aware that the Islamic months are based on the sighting of the moon the previous night, which is why there is a possibility of it being either of 2 days

There are no other explanations!
lol

lol….but no, you need to explain more on this moon sighting issue; don’t you think basing on the moon is quite medieval? For instance, what if, geographically, something happens and the moon doesn’t turn up for more than 2 days? Would EID be postponed until the moon shows?

Why do they say Saudi is the first to sight the moon, I though the world being a globe and any places on the same latitude would equally be able to sight the moon at the same time and isn’t that sometimes the moon sets before sunset in Saudi?

See more explanation needed…
 

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lol….but no, you need to explain more on this moon sighting issue; don’t you think basing on the moon is quite medieval? For instance, what if, geographically, something happens and the moon doesn’t turn up for more than 2 days? Would EID be postponed until the moon shows?

Why do they say Saudi is the first to sight the moon, I though the world being a globe and any places on the same latitude would equally be able to sight the moon at the same time and isn’t that sometimes the moon sets before sunset in Saudi?

See more explanation needed…
Ok, here is the explanation mate :)

a) there are 4 main ways of the moonsighting being calculated, with different islamic scholars being used (it is not uncommon for different muslims to have eid on different days), ignoring countries just announcing it for the sake of announcing it. I've put them in order of popularity

i) The birth of the moon is sighted in the country the night before
ii) the birth of the moon is sighted in another country on the same horizon, or one that shares part of the night with this one.
iii) a scientific calculation, which will be based upon the 'possibility' of viewing the moon with the naked eye regardless of if it is seen or not (using astronmical data) in either the host country or countries that share part of the night.
iv) same as iii) but a calculation that also incorporates the possibility of using an optical aid, so "if it is possible to view via telescope anywhere in the world, regardless if it is seen or not, then the next day is the new month"


Now, bearing these in mind, always remember that any islamic lunar month CANNOT be more than 29 or 30 days due to the lunar cycle. Therefore, as Saturday in this country is 29 Ramadan, then Sunday can ONLY be 30 Ramadan or 1 Shawwal.

So, whatever criteria one is using, even if it is a non-scientific one, once 30 Ramadan hits, then automatically the following day is 1 Shawwal (Eid).

There are moon charts online that show the geographic map and where the moon is likely to be seen.

I believe in the UAE and middle East tend to rely on viewing with the naked eye in the region, and if it doesn't happen, then once day 30 comes, then by default the next day becomes the new month.

If you want to get technical, the moon will be visible by the naked eye for the majority of the southern hemisphere esp in south america, and by telescope for a bit north of that on Saturday night. Therefore technically, the moon cannot possibly be sighted by the naked eye in this part of the word. this is where sometimes they'll announce it as a political statement (which nobody bothers to question). This means that by UAE criteria, it has to be Monday for Eid (but we'll see how it materialises).

I personally follow option (iv) therefore for me, Eid is Sunday regardless of any announcement here and I will not be fasting on that day.

It's a bit of an information overload, but hey, if it gives you a greater understanding, then might as well post it.

If you have any other questions, give me a shout.
 

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lol….but no, you need to explain more on this moon sighting issue; don’t you think basing on the moon is quite medieval? For instance, what if, geographically, something happens and the moon doesn’t turn up for more than 2 days? Would EID be postponed until the moon shows?

Why do they say Saudi is the first to sight the moon, I though the world being a globe and any places on the same latitude would equally be able to sight the moon at the same time and isn’t that sometimes the moon sets before sunset in Saudi?

See more explanation needed…
hhm cant we even predict the phase of the moon even in the 21st century?
 

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we can, but there are varieties in application of the Islamic rulings as per above.

I suppose some people like to make a jacket potatoe in the oven, and some want to microwave it.

Moonsighting.com shows you the moon birth charts, but I would ignore their announcements and perhaps use my summary above if you want a better idea of things. The only announcement that'll affect our holiday is this country's application of the ruling (or political statement by being earlier than everyone, sadly this does happen, which keeps things a little unpredictable).
 

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Ok, here is the explanation mate :)

a) there are 4 main ways of the moonsighting being calculated, with different islamic scholars being used (it is not uncommon for different muslims to have eid on different days), ignoring countries just announcing it for the sake of announcing it. I've put them in order of popularity

i) The birth of the moon is sighted in the country the night before
ii) the birth of the moon is sighted in another country on the same horizon, or one that shares part of the night with this one.
iii) a scientific calculation, which will be based upon the 'possibility' of viewing the moon with the naked eye regardless of if it is seen or not (using astronmical data) in either the host country or countries that share part of the night.
iv) same as iii) but a calculation that also incorporates the possibility of using an optical aid, so "if it is possible to view via telescope anywhere in the world, regardless if it is seen or not, then the next day is the new month"


Now, bearing these in mind, always remember that any islamic lunar month CANNOT be more than 29 or 30 days due to the lunar cycle. Therefore, as Saturday in this country is 29 Ramadan, then Sunday can ONLY be 30 Ramadan or 1 Shawwal.

So, whatever criteria one is using, even if it is a non-scientific one, once 30 Ramadan hits, then automatically the following day is 1 Shawwal (Eid).

There are moon charts online that show the geographic map and where the moon is likely to be seen.

I believe in the UAE and middle East tend to rely on viewing with the naked eye in the region, and if it doesn't happen, then once day 30 comes, then by default the next day becomes the new month.

If you want to get technical, the moon will be visible by the naked eye for the majority of the southern hemisphere esp in south america, and by telescope for a bit north of that on Saturday night. Therefore technically, the moon cannot possibly be sighted by the naked eye in this part of the word. this is where sometimes they'll announce it as a political statement (which nobody bothers to question). This means that by UAE criteria, it has to be Monday for Eid (but we'll see how it materialises).

I personally follow option (iv) therefore for me, Eid is Sunday regardless of any announcement here and I will not be fasting on that day.

It's a bit of an information overload, but hey, if it gives you a greater understanding, then might as well post it.

If you have any other questions, give me a shout.


So, from you explanation, scientifically, you partially agree with me that using the moon as the SI unit for Ramadan is kind of medieval, right?..lol….
 

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Nope I disagree.

The lunar cycle is perfectly fine. Not much difference between using that, and using the solar cycle and sticking a leap year in to keep it on track! It's not like that method is any newer :)

People can easily use moon charts and calculate with supreme accuracy whether the moon is visible or not, the reasons why some country's rely on the 'sighting' is usually more political and isn't necessary. I'm perfectly comfortable with Eid being on Sunday because the moon is scientifically visible in a fair chunk of the earth.

So I have some qualms about the manner it's delivered, but I'm fine with the concept :D
 

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Nope I disagree.

The lunar cycle is perfectly fine. Not much difference between using that, and using the solar cycle and sticking a leap year in to keep it on track! It's not like that method is any newer :)

People can easily use moon charts and calculate with supreme accuracy whether the moon is visible or not, the reasons why some country's rely on the 'sighting' is usually more political and
isn't necessary
. I'm perfectly comfortable with Eid being on Sunday because the moon is scientifically visible in a fair chunk of the earth.

So I have some qualms about the manner it's delivered
, but I'm fine with the concept :D
So, you partially agree?..lol...
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
yawn... as always you are wrong!
At least I admit it when i am and try to actually GIVE something here.

You on the other hand are just a sad troll with the biggest chip on your shoulder ever.

I blame your parents - well, you are what happens when cousins marry.....
 

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Finish what Del? I thought we had finished, M123 finally agrees with me...lol....
However, these Eid holidays require much spontaneity, don't they? I mean, I cant even plan my days off trip until the moon shows!!
 
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