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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi there!

So this is my situation... And I could really use some advice. My grandmother is british, my grandfather is british and my mother was born british but they moved her to Canada before she turned one and registered her as Canadian, with no proof of being born in the UK. I'm sure we could find some, but thus far none has surfaced.

I have been granted a 3 year study visa 6 years ago. I went home after I was complete and have visited many times since then. I was visiting with my now husband to visit his family (he is british) as his grandmother was very ill. And bizarrely this time a customs agent took offense to me. I had outbound tickets into Europe after we were visiting his family, as we intended to do a bit of travel before heading back to Canada. We both own our own companies so it means we can travel with no concerns. The border guard said we had no firm ties to Canada, where we had been living, because of our own businesses. And that he felt I was trying to sneak in... As I've held several long term visas I don't know why he'd think I'd suddenly decide to break the law?

Anyways, I was refused entry and we went back to Canada. It was a normal refusal, not that they accused me of falsifying anything. So I'm not barred entry or anything daft like that. But I believe that his reasons for denying me mean I have to refute everything and they'll look at my application much more stringently, which is so frustrating as I've never done anything wrong. Now with the new financial restrictions as well, we're at our wits end. We just want to go see our friends and family and are being blocked by regulations as we are both self employed so we need a 62,000 pound bank balance.

But anyways, we've found out about the Surinder Singh clause which would make our lives so much easier as a way to go to where we consider home again and we're intending on trying to give it a shot, though not for the 3 months most people are. We'd like to live/work in Ireland for a year or two. So we're in Canada now, I'm a Canadian and he is British. We want to head to Ireland and I'm not sure the best steps. Should I travel over as a visitor and change my status after he has secured a job there and gotten some pay stubs? Or would I apply for a visa before we go over?

Follow up to that, I know that when you get the right to remain while they process your application for 6 months you have a stamp in your passport. I'm wondering if that stamp allows you access to work during those 6 months or simply access to stay while they decide? It wasn't very clear on the websites I was reading. Basically I want to work while waiting but obviously that's at the discretion of the stamp they put in your passport while you wait for the residency card.

I'm very confused and could use some advice as to our best options. We plan on trying to execute the move before Christmas, so obviously more information the better and I really appreciate any help any of you can offer.
 

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Just curious, wouldn't it be easier to apply for an Ancestry Visa?

ETA: Do you know the hospital/county where you Mum was born? If so, they should have some record of her birth and be able to issue a birth certificate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Just curious, wouldn't it be easier to apply for an

ETA: Do you know the hospital/county where you Mum was born? If so, they should have some record of her birth and be able to issue a birth certificate.
My mother is not the cooperative sort and my grandmother unfortunately is senile, she couldn't answer if she wanted to. I've tried on my own and with the assistance of some ancestry finder people but they can't find the details. It's very frustrating.

I want to apply under ancestry, but I'm afraid that the refusal would make it more difficult? I genuinely don't know how to proceed now that we have that refusal. And with the Surinda Singh clause making it cheap and easy to follow an alternate route it seemed another option.

Would the refusal of entry bar me getting the ancestry visa even if it wasn't on the grounds of fraud or deception but just a normal, general refusal since the guy thought I'd gone rogue or something?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
You can order birth certificates here if you know enough details

Thanks _shel! I do appreciate it :) We've actually tried with local people too, as my mother in law tried to order information locally, but it's like she's not on the face of the earth even though I KNOW she was born in the UK there are pictures of her as a baby there and her mom, sister, dad were all born there and immigrated to Canada. It's soooooo unbelievably frustrating.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I think to make it obvious why it's urgent - if we have to apply for paperwork it needs to be done like this week to get in in time for us to go in Nov/December like we wanted is why I'm a little anxious.
 
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Well order your grandparents certificates and apply for the ancestry, you can get fast delivery if you pay a little more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Well order your grandparents certificates and apply for the ancestry, you can get fast delivery if you pay a little more.
I actually have them and my great grandparents as well. I'm just worried the refusal of entry at the UKBA may hinder my application? Does anyone know if it would?
 
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No I dont think so, you declare it when applying. You will now be applying for a visa which you qualify for which is why you were turned around because you didnt have that then.
 

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You will have to note your refusal for entry on your application for an ancestry visa. Your application will require some extra attention because of the refusal but it is not a basis for denying you an ancestry application.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
No I dont think so, you declare it when applying. You will now be applying for a visa which you qualify for which is why you were turned around because you didnt have that then.
Well that's interesting and good news! Thank you so much, shel!

If we did go the Surinda Singh route (we really haven't decided yet) do you happen to know if the initial stamp while they do the 6 month decision period allows me to work? Or would I have to remain unemployed during that time? I'm sorry for all the questions I'm just trying to be as well informed as possible!
 

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The refusal will cause a delay, as they'll now go over the application with a fine toothed comb to make sure your application is water tight, however this doesn't mean that they'll flat out say "No." As long as they're satisfied with the documentation that you submit, I can't see why they'd say no to you... as _shel states, you're applying for a visa that you qualify for that you didn't have when you tried to enter.

Good luck to you! :)
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The refusal will cause a delay, as they'll now go over the application with a fine toothed comb to make sure your application is water tight, however this doesn't mean that they'll flat out say "No." As long as they're satisfied with the documentation that you submit, I can't see why they'd say no to you... as _shel states, you're applying for a visa that you qualify for that you didn't have when you tried to enter.

Good luck to you! :)
Thanks WestCoastCanadianGirl! I'm genuinely very frustrated with the entire situation. I've had legitimate visas for the UK for like... 7 years and the one time I was actually just coming for a visit they think I'm sneaking in. I have nooooo idea what was up the guys bum that day. I even had proof of return and stuff. But oh well, what's done is done. And that's just my rant lol. They don't exactlly treat you well when they're refusing you entry. Well, that's not true. The staff are mostly amazing but the people who did the interviewing, they refused to listen to my responses or my spouse, family, friends who they insisted on calling. But everyone else was wonderful, just that dude was not. I'm still quite bitter about it though, as we were going to visit a dying family member who passed two days later without us seeing her.

Anyways, Ancestry is definitely an option, but we actually had some potential work lined up in Ireland which makes the Surinda Singh option definitely viable but we're just mostly unsure of whether I can work when we get there or have to wait until the 6 month visa issuing period is up?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I'm sorry to be a pest but I was really hoping to bump this up in case anyone has an answer about whether the stamp they give you while you wait for your 6 months allows working?
 

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As a Canadian, a non-visa national, you can enter Ireland with your British husband and apply for permission to remain under EU rules at the nearest Garda national immigration bureau. While I'm not 100% certain, you should be allowed to work in Ireland, and in any case Ireland processes residence card much faster than UK with a wait time of up to 6 months. You can then apply for EEA family permit to enter UK, and your previous denied entry shouldn't be a factor, though Home Office will know about it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
As a Canadian, a non-visa national, you can enter Ireland with your British husband and apply for permission to remain under EU rules at the nearest Garda national immigration bureau. While I'm not 100% certain, you should be allowed to work in Ireland, and in any case Ireland processes residence card much faster than UK with a wait time of up to 6 months. You can then apply for EEA family permit to enter UK, and your previous denied entry shouldn't be a factor, though Home Office will know about it.
Thanks Joppa! So realistically when we got to Ireland and once I went to the Garda station and applied. I know they issue you a stamp to stay for 6 months immediately at that point. But that's the stamp that allows you to work as well? Or is it after the 6 months you can work? That's the only part that keeps tripping me up.

And it's ok if they know about the refusal, as it was just the guy didn't believe me I was just visiting - ironically was the first and only time I've visited NOT on a visa (like long term work or study) and they thought I was sneaking in (bizarre). But I have all of the documentation proving that I had, in fact, been visiting for an ill family member, as unfortunately she passed away about 2-3 days after the refusal of entry.
 

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If you are a non-EEA family member of an EEA or Swiss citizen, who meets the requirements as laid out in the European Communities (Free Movement of Persons) Regulations 2006 and 2008, you must apply to the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service (INIS) for permission to remain under EU Treaty Rights – see ‘How to apply’ below.

When you register with the GNIB or your local registration office the Certificate of Registration that you receive will be a residence card with the wording 4 EU FAM (that is, the residence card of a family member of an EU citizen). As a holder of this card 4 EU FAM, you will be visa-exempt even if you are a visa-required national and you do not need an employment permit or business permission.

Non-EEA family members of an EU national will be given a temporary stamp 4 while waiting for applications under EU Treaty Rights to be processed but this is currently (2011) under review. Stamp 4 allows you to take up employment in Ireland.
Residence rights of non-EEA nationals in Ireland
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Last question on this topic - What type of documentation would we want to have on hand to prove a genuine and durable relationship? We've been together for 2 years and recently married. But we have photos of trips to Paris for my birthday two years ago and trips to visit eachother before we were in the same country. So I'm just wondering what is considered the correct paperwork for that. As some people mentioned they included chat logs, which I found a little strange to me and I'm not sure whether they are expected?
 

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There is no required list. You just have to supply evidence which will support your application. Holidays, photos all help. Chat logs and email headers too. How much you supply is up to you, but I suggest you give representative examples from each 6-month period.

Unmarried partners
Under regulation 8 (5) of the Immigration (EEA) Regulations 2006, a non EEA national who is an unmarried partner of an EEA national can qualify as an extended family member if they show their relationship is durable. There are no specific rules set as a definitive way to prove a relationship is durable. It is up to the applicant to provide evidence to demonstrate this.
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/s...a-swiss-ec/eea/eea-family-permits?view=Binary
 
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