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For a change, does anyone know if an American Bulldog is classed as a "dangerous dog" in Spain, also a British Bulldog.??
 

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For a change, does anyone know if an American Bulldog is classed as a "dangerous dog" in Spain, also a British Bulldog.??
taken from the link in our 'useful links' sticky thread

Dangerous Dogs


Any person owning a potentially dangerous dog (perros potencialmente peligrosos) in Spain must have an appropriate licence (by law of article 3 of the Royal Decree 287/2002, of 22 of March 2002) and the dog must be registered with the municipality. Handlers and walkers of dangerous or potentially dangerous dogs must also be licenced (article 1, 2 of Law 50/1999, of December 1999). A licence is valid for five years.

Potentially dangerous dog are identified as being in one of three categories:

1) Breeds and breed crosses classified as potentially dangerous:

Doberman (Andalucia only)
Pit Bull Terrier
Staffordshire Bull Terrier
American Staffordshire Terrier
Rottweiler
Dogo Argentino
Fila Brasileiro
Tosa Inu
Akita Inu

2) Dogs with certain characteristics of these breeds are also classified as potentially dangerous. The characteristics are:

Strong musculature, powerful or athletic constitution, robustness, agility, vigor and endurance
Short hair
Deep chest (60 to 80 cm), height of over 50 cm and a weight over 20 Kg
Big, square, head, with a wide skull and strong jaws
Broad, short and muscled neck.
Straight, parallel forelegs and muscular hindquarters, relatively long back legs standing at an angle

3) Dogs that have a track record of aggression to humans and other animals must also be licenced and registered.
 

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Although there are national guidelines, each local ajuntamiento publishes its own rules, so check with a local vet or yoru town hall.

Either way, even if so, that does not been that they ae banned, just a bit of additional paperwork needs to be completed. Then there is the issue of muzzles which should be worn on these breeds unless they have completed an annual psychological test by an approved vet.

The whole law is complete and utter s**t in my opinion. Having owned dogs all my life and taken a keen interest in dog psychology in recent years, i hate this "breed discrimination" that we see here in Spain and so many other countries. I am the proud owner of a rotty who, thanks to being balanced, well brough up, and having good leadership is about as likley to bite anyone as a rabbit.

The crazy thing is that vets who make the decision on muzzel or no muzzel are NOT specialists in dog psychology. You only have to look at how vets often immediately muzzel certain breeds before they will look at them.

I love point 3 -
3) Dogs that have a track record of aggression to humans and other animals must also be licenced and registered.
Try chewawahs! FACT: more people get bitten by small dogs then ANY "dangerous breed" or dog over 25kg. Its just that if a toy dog bites you you get a small wound, so it doesnt make the papers - if a rotty or pitt bull pites then its serious!

Every day I cycle with my pack and its only ever small dogs yapping in fields that cause issues, in fact a jack russel frequently has a go at mine, and in fact only yesterday attcked one of mine because its stupid bloody owner leaves the gate open… then theres the idiot up the road who has a spaniel that is chained to a 6 foot chain day and night… and the owner complains when my dogs go past (quietly and controlled0 for "making his dog upset"…grrrr… uff I am woffling here.

Don't place restrictions on breeds of dogs - place restictions on types of owners!

Check out this video about Pitt Bulls

 

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Although there are national guidelines, each local ajuntamiento publishes its own rules, so check with a local vet or yoru town hall.

Either way, even if so, that does not been that they ae banned, just a bit of additional paperwork needs to be completed. Then there is the issue of muzzles which should be worn on these breeds unless they have completed an annual psychological test by an approved vet.

The whole law is complete and utter s**t in my opinion. Having owned dogs all my life and taken a keen interest in dog psychology in recent years, i hate this "breed discrimination" that we see here in Spain and so many other countries. I am the proud owner of a rotty who, thanks to being balanced, well brough up, and having good leadership is about as likley to bite anyone as a rabbit.

The crazy thing is that vets who make the decision on muzzel or no muzzel are NOT specialists in dog psychology. You only have to look at how vets often immediately muzzel certain breeds before they will look at them.

I love point 3 -
Try chewawahs! FACT: more people get bitten by small dogs then ANY "dangerous breed" or dog over 25kg. Its just that if a toy dog bites you you get a small wound, so it doesnt make the papers - if a rotty or pitt bull pites then its serious!

Every day I cycle with my pack and its only ever small dogs yapping in fields that cause issues, in fact a jack russel frequently has a go at mine, and in fact only yesterday attcked one of mine because its stupid bloody owner leaves the gate open… then theres the idiot up the road who has a spaniel that is chained to a 6 foot chain day and night… and the owner complains when my dogs go past (quietly and controlled0 for "making his dog upset"…grrrr… uff I am woffling here.

Don't place restrictions on breeds of dogs - place restictions on types of owners!

Check out this video about Pitt Bulls

The Fight to End Pit Bull Discrimination - YouTube





I have no issues with any dogs and in fact my daughter has 5 plus other various pets however I do have an issue with

Every day I cycle with my pack

How can anyone be in control of a pack of dogs when they are on a cycle?
I expect you to say your dogs are well trained.. my daughters labs are actually working gun dogs who are trained to hand and whistle signals as is the other dogs that they work with however dogs are pack animals and it only takes one to start something off and then all mayhem takes place despite being well trained.
 

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I have no issues with any dogs and in fact my daughter has 5 plus other various pets however I do have an issue with

Every day I cycle with my pack

How can anyone be in control of a pack of dogs when they are on a cycle?
I expect you to say your dogs are well trained.. my daughters labs are actually working gun dogs who are trained to hand and whistle signals as is the other dogs that they work with however dogs are pack animals and it only takes one to start something off and then all mayhem takes place despite being well trained.
No, my dogs are not "well trained", they are "well balanced". A well balanced dog or pack of dogs will always follow the pack leader and all of my dogs respect me as the pack leader. Therefore when we are cycling we are cycling. My dogs know that if we are walking on leads they can sniff, investigate, and look around, but when we are cycling they are going to concentrate on one thing only and that is me and where i take the bike.

My bike is equiped with special dog attachments, and the dogs wear body harnesses. I take a great interest in the work of Cesar Milan (The Dog Whisperer) and my dogs have worked with a UK equivelent who is first class… he taught me that in any situation a well balanced dog will respond to the command of his owner… one "pppsssttt" form the owner and he shouls have the dogs attention - 100% and immediately.

2 of mine are naturally athletic dogs and frankly, anything short of a dam good run is not enough excersise for them as I have learned recently. A cycle is a perfect way for them to run until they are completely exhausted - twice a day - without completely exhausting me!

Having said this, I would not recommend cycling with dogs to anyone until their dog is completely balanced because as you have said, one pull in the wrong direction and your going to break a spoke.. and an arm… and probably a dog, but with correct leadership it is the very best way to ecercise energetic dogs!
 

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I half agree with you, Steve. Yes, it's bad owners who make bad dogs just like bad parenting turns out little monsters.

But I disagree over the issue of control when out with a pack.

Azor is not named as a dangerous dog in the list -few Spaniards seem to have heard of Rhodesian Ridgebacks. He has many of the characteristics and although neither our vet or RAIA consider him as such - he has his green card from the JdA, insurance, chip, passport - we are very careful with him as his size and shape alone are a cause of alarm to many people especially those with smaller dogs.

He is well-trained, gentle in nature, friendly to 99% of other dogs but very territorial. But he is a hound and the nature of hounds is to have a certain degree of independence. After all, their work, to sniff, follow a scent and in Azor's case originally to track and contain lions(!) requires an amount of individual thinking and judgment. So although we have control over him on the lead in 99% of instances, there could be times when his instinct is stronger than his trained obedience. Then he is almost unstoppable, even for a big strong man.

So when in public areas he is always on a lead and a Cannycollar which acts like a muzzle. When he is in places with lots of other dogs such as our vets he wears a proper muzzle. It controls him and reassures others.

We could never let him run with us on our bikes as he could fly off if his instinct prompted him. People who cycle with their dogs unleashed also cause us problems as he tends to be the focus of their interest and he doesn't always take to having his perfumed rear sniffed at by strangers. (I resist the temptation to make further comment....)

So whilst it's undoubtedly fun for you and your pack it can be a problem for others.
 

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One of our dogs was reported by a 'kindly' neighbour as fitting certain criteria on the dangerous dogs regulations. He is tall and skinny and very agile, but fell into the part where it's usually up to the discretion of the vet contracted by the local council.
Luckily he took an instant liking to the lady vet and she to him, so he was not put on the register, with all that that involves.

We do, however, put a muzzle on him (and on a couple of our other galgos) when we take him for walks across the village, or let him run anywhere where there are likely to be humans or other animals.
We do that because most of our dogs are hunting dogs by breed and we know (from past experience in the UK) what a hunting pack (even a usually docile and obedient pack) is capable of.

We also muzzle some of our dogs when they visit the vet for vaccinations and other treatment. The muzzle may add to the dogs distress, which is a shame, but we cannot have them reacting to pain and instinctively biting the vet.

I agree with Steve that it is not about dogs being "well trained", but "well balanced". But, because I have also studied dog psychology specific to the particular breeds we own, in the case of our dogs I know that well balanced for them means being hunting dogs and all the behaviour that may lead to, especially when forming a pack (which could consist of as little as two dogs of similar nature).
We know our dogs very well, despite having so many of them. And we know they all have respect for us as pack leaders (or, in my case, alpha bxxch :) - the censor cut out the original word!), but we never let our feelings of being pack leaders override our knowledge of our dogs' capabilities to do harm in particular situations.

It's difficult for any legislation on this to be effective without being to the detriment of some dogs and their owners. And in an ideal world, all dog owners would understand their individual dogs and their character traits and capabilities and act accordingly. So there would be no need for legislation. Sadly, as with everything else, it is not an ideal world, so legislation has to be made.
 

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My American Bull dog is meant to be a guard dog, but she is so soft she could not guard her own shadow. And my British Bull dog, is another little sweetie, they are both well behaved as we would not have it any other way. We have had dogs all our life, we even had an Arctic Wolf and she was a great friend and well trained, and we lived in the country where there were sheep every where. Never have we had a bad dog.
 

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I half agree with you, Steve. Yes, it's bad owners who make bad dogs just like bad parenting turns out little monsters.

But I disagree over the issue of control when out with a pack.

Azor is not named as a dangerous dog in the list -few Spaniards seem to have heard of Rhodesian Ridgebacks. He has many of the characteristics and although neither our vet or RAIA consider him as such - he has his green card from the JdA, insurance, chip, passport - we are very careful with him as his size and shape alone are a cause of alarm to many people especially those with smaller dogs.

He is well-trained, gentle in nature, friendly to 99% of other dogs but very territorial. But he is a hound and the nature of hounds is to have a certain degree of independence. After all, their work, to sniff, follow a scent and in Azor's case originally to track and contain lions(!) requires an amount of individual thinking and judgment. So although we have control over him on the lead in 99% of instances, there could be times when his instinct is stronger than his trained obedience. Then he is almost unstoppable, even for a big strong man.

So when in public areas he is always on a lead and a Cannycollar which acts like a muzzle. When he is in places with lots of other dogs such as our vets he wears a proper muzzle. It controls him and reassures others.

We could never let him run with us on our bikes as he could fly off if his instinct prompted him. People who cycle with their dogs unleashed also cause us problems as he tends to be the focus of their interest and he doesn't always take to having his perfumed rear sniffed at by strangers. (I resist the temptation to make further comment....)

So whilst it's undoubtedly fun for you and your pack it can be a problem for others.
I think that everyone knows their own dog and what he/she will or wont do. I think that "trained obedience" is the key here. Most people train their dogs to what they should or should not do, and lets be honest most dogs respond to that most of the time and live quite happily. What is the biigest pleasure is when the dog is not trained to be obedient but when the dog has complete respect for the pack. In the wild dogs follow their pack, you will never see one dog in a natural pack stray off because he sees another animal, the head of thepack leads the way and the rest follow. The same applies in a domestic setting, if the dogs are balanced and know their place in the pack then they are following the pack leader.

A dog may spot something that gets his attention and look, but it is that turn of the head and look that causes the pack leader to look, evaluate and decide if action needs to be taken…when I am out with mine they look to anything they see, and then look to me for instruction. if a dog is inclined to run off, or pulls towards things and has to be corrected by the owner then that dog is challenging the owner to the position of pack leader and therefore not completely balanced.

It's a difficult concept to grasp but one that when you do, makes a wonderful and huge difference to the dogs behaviour, and the relationship between human and dog.
 

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I had a Labrador from a pup until she died aged 15.. lovely dog soft as butter wont hurt a fly .. until,

I locked us out of the house by mistake..but no problem because the small window in the kitchen was open for ventilation for the dog so my husband climbed up and put his hand in the window to open it.. result 5 stiches.


Instinct is very powerful
 

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We do, however, put a muzzle on him (and on a couple of our other galgos) when we take him for walks across the village, or let him run anywhere where there are likely to be humans or other animals.
We do that because most of our dogs are hunting dogs by breed and we know (from past experience in the UK) what a hunting pack (even a usually docile and obedient pack) is capable of.
All dogs are pack animals though, regardless of their breed origins, and if the balance is right instinct can be overridden… Having said that, its good to be aware of instinct and know if you can or cannot trust your particular dogs. I have 2 huskies and their instinct is to run and pull (hence the bike which completely drains their energy and gives them their purpose in life), but nevertheless they can also walk at my side without any pulling or instictual behaviour if that is what we are out to do.

I do believe that dogs sense your fears and anxieties, and if you have any doubt that they will bite then you are increaing the risk of them doing so. Building that complete trust takes a long time, but when you reach that mutual trust its amazing.

I know that my dogs will not run over to somoene and attack them. What I dont know is how other people will behave to them. If a child runs over and hurts them or startles them then they may react. This is why I only let them off loose when it is a completely isolated area, not because I dont trust the dogs but becuse i dont trust others!

We also muzzle some of our dogs when they visit the vet for vaccinations and other treatment. The muzzle may add to the dogs distress, which is a shame, but we cannot have them reacting to pain and instinctively biting the vet.
Me too with the rotty, not because i dont trust him but because I know that the vet could, and in many cases will do something that will hurt. So, to my dogs muzzel means fun because they get rewarded after muzzel time, but in some cases such as at the vets yes, I agree, its better than the consequences of the vet loosing an arm!

Its crazy how little vets know about dog psychology. One vet once approached my dog from behind with a stethoscope and wondered why he growled! He didnt even take the time to meetand greet the dog first, just walked into the room spoke to me and went straigt in for the examination! Loco!
 

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Everyone says their dogs are well balanced and or trained and the owner is the Alpha dog.. sorry but as far as I am concerned when you are out walking a large dog that is powerful and strong then it should be one person to one dog.. nothing will change my view on that.
Thats fine, and I do that also but in nature all the pack walk together. If you always seperate them to walk (and lets remember that walking is the single most primal thing for a pack to bond) then that shows weakness in leadership (because the dogs know you do that because you fear you cant control them), it shows unsettlement in the pack and although most dogs will tollerate this it created unbalance and goes so strongly against everything in doggy DNA.

Look at cesar milan, or any other person who REALLY knows dogs and you will see what I mean… look at this woman and the control she has over her dogs! And I am not saying you shoudl just go for it but you shoudl work towards it definately. If you cant walk all yoru dogs at once then you have a big problem, potential frustrations, and an unbalanced life that could lead to other problems

 

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My American Bull dog is meant to be a guard dog, but she is so soft she could not guard her own shadow. And my British Bull dog, is another little sweetie, they are both well behaved as we would not have it any other way. We have had dogs all our life, we even had an Arctic Wolf and she was a great friend and well trained, and we lived in the country where there were sheep every where. Never have we had a bad dog.
Sounds like you got it right and get as much out of your dogs as i do from mine :D
 

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This page will be full of posters saying how good their dogs are.. although Cataluna did say that one of her dogs is problematic a while back.
Just to be absolutely clear - in my opinion at least 90% of dogs out there fall into the category of "cant be trusted 100%" but it is my absolute firm believe that 100% of dogs out there can learn to be trusted 100% if the owners stop thinking of them as humans, start thinking of them as dogs, and start ensuring that they treat them the way dogs know and udnerstand, and become a calm, assertive pack leader with no weaknesses, no doubts and no fears!
 

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Although there are national guidelines, each local ajuntamiento publishes its own rules, so check with a local vet or yoru town hall.

Either way, even if so, that does not been that they ae banned, just a bit of additional paperwork needs to be completed. Then there is the issue of muzzles which should be worn on these breeds unless they have completed an annual psychological test by an approved vet.

The whole law is complete and utter s**t in my opinion. Having owned dogs all my life and taken a keen interest in dog psychology in recent years, i hate this "breed discrimination" that we see here in Spain and so many other countries. I am the proud owner of a rotty who, thanks to being balanced, well brough up, and having good leadership is about as likley to bite anyone as a rabbit.

The crazy thing is that vets who make the decision on muzzel or no muzzel are NOT specialists in dog psychology. You only have to look at how vets often immediately muzzel certain breeds before they will look at them.

I love point 3 -
Try chewawahs! FACT: more people get bitten by small dogs then ANY "dangerous breed" or dog over 25kg. Its just that if a toy dog bites you you get a small wound, so it doesnt make the papers - if a rotty or pitt bull pites then its serious!

Every day I cycle with my pack and its only ever small dogs yapping in fields that cause issues, in fact a jack russel frequently has a go at mine, and in fact only yesterday attcked one of mine because its stupid bloody owner leaves the gate open… then theres the idiot up the road who has a spaniel that is chained to a 6 foot chain day and night… and the owner complains when my dogs go past (quietly and controlled0 for "making his dog upset"…grrrr… uff I am woffling here.

Don't place restrictions on breeds of dogs - place restictions on types of owners!

Check out this video about Pitt Bulls

The Fight to End Pit Bull Discrimination - YouTube
Ayye Daddy, my dog hero.
If anyone/ dog should have been given eternal youth, it should have been him!
 

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Thats fine, and I do that also but in nature all the pack walk together. If you always seperate them to walk (and lets remember that walking is the single most primal thing for a pack to bond) then that shows weakness in leadership (because the dogs know you do that because you fear you cant control them), it shows unsettlement in the pack and although most dogs will tollerate this it created unbalance and goes so strongly against everything in doggy DNA.

Look at cesar milan, or any other person who REALLY knows dogs and you will see what I mean… look at this woman and the control she has over her dogs! And I am not saying you shoudl just go for it but you shoudl work towards it definately. If you cant walk all yoru dogs at once then you have a big problem, potential frustrations, and an unbalanced life that could lead to other problems
If we took all of our dogs out for a walk at once we wouldn't have enough arms!

I do understand MaidenScotland's sentiments when she says it should be one big, powerful dog per owner when going for a walk.
Although I'm fairly strong, I am of small build and, if they were so inclined, any of our larger dogs could pull me over (or pull me along with them) with very little effort.
And it is more other peoples' perception of this possibility than what is actually likely to happen. Hence the muzzles, and the fact that we take our dogs for a walk in small groups (very small, when it comes to the larger ones).
Living where we do in Spain, we have to get on with the neighbours, so we always try to consider their feelings about this situation. Makes for a less stressful life.

As to Cesar Milan...
I am a great fan of his work with dogs and his understanding of them.
Watching him show people how their feelings affect their dogs reactions has been a great help to someone like me, who can never rely on strength along to control a dog.

However...
Even Cesar Milan has been heard to say that one of our particular galgo breeds is extremely hard to train, or control. Its very much down to their nature.
We accept that and allow for this accordingly.
 

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However...
Even Cesar Milan has been heard to say that one of our particular galgo breeds is extremely hard to train, or control. Its very much down to their nature.
We accept that and allow for this accordingly.
I agree… there are always certain exceptions and cases that need to be dealt with on their individual merits and you, like me seem to have your head screwed on when it comes to dogs. What really gets my goat is when people make negative generalisations such as "people should only walk one dog at a time" or "rottweilers bite people". These views are based on lack of understanding, possible bad experiences, and certainly wrong assumptions about certain breeds.

Recently I was walking with a dog psychologist and my rotty. We walked past a local house (in campo) where their poor dog is on a chain 24/7. Naturally their dog got excited and was barking as we passed (as he does every day). We stopped because we were doing some testing work with my rotty and seeing his reactions (its important to test the dogs reaction to various situations at various times when it is a controlled situation). Mine went to sleep on the floor with big brown eyes looking up as if to say "can we go please, that little dog is giving me a headache".

Anyway, the owner of the dog came out and accused me of being irresponsible for walking my rotty in the street…. ermmm… hello! This is the man who responsibly keeps his playful little pup in a 5 foot chain day and night… "your rottweiler is making my dog distressed" he said…. " i think you are the one making it distressed, not me or my dog". We have even offered to let the little chap meet mypack and walk with us btu he doesnt entertain that because his dog gets all the excercise he needs in the chain… stupid pillock! In the UK the RSPCA would do something about him, but here no :mad:

Anyway :focus:

People in general need to learn more about dogs, or shouldnt be allowed to have them…most "aggressive" dogs in shelters are only that way due to how humans have treated them and neglected their basic needs.
 
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