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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am having a hard time keeping this post short.

If I had someone's ear I would suggest Mexico build a high-tech campus in a place like Sante Fe, Mexico City and approach companies like Microsoft (who already has offices there), Google, Facebook, Dell, ... to move their 'dreamer' population there - perhaps even the non-Mexicans. Perhaps Mexico could make concessions to the companies and fast-track the creation of Mexican affiliates.

I am amazed that the effort to end DACA is led by the attorney general of Texas of all places. Compassion : guess it is easier to ask for than to offer.

I really would like to find a way to make it practical for Mexico's agricultural workers to stay in Mexico - even if it meant I had to pay a little more at the supermarket.

It is a good thing that I am not on the Mexican side of the table at the NAFTA negotiations. I might not even show up.

There is a piece of this DACA thing I can't find an answer to. I keep hearing this number 800,0000. That is the number of dreamers ? or the number of dreamers along with their parents and siblings ? Does a DACA permit act as a stake in the ground for their family members. If 800,000 dreamers are deported when their 2 year visas expire - how many people are deported ? Is that where the number 5 million comes from ?

I could go on - but I'll stop there for now.
 

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The decision and the announcement will be made Tuesday. But congress will have six months to respond to this, if it is ended.

Obama couldn't get it through congress so he did it by executive order. With the track record of congress do you think they will be able to come to any kind of agreement as far as a replacement? One they can actually get passed?
 

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. I keep hearing this number 800,0000. That is the number of dreamers ? or the number of dreamers along with their parents and siblings ?
It is the number of dreamers. There are approximately 800,000 enrolled in the program. Another 500,000 are estimated to be eligible, but are not enrolled. I don't know the number of affected family members, but your figure of 5 million seems in the ball park. The conservative Cato Institute estimates that it will cost the US 60 billion dollars to deport the dreamers, and that US economic growth will lose $280 billion over the next ten years. I don't really see that the president needs to "have a heart," as so many are now calling for--he just needs to have a brain.

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It is the number of dreamers. There are approximately 800,000 enrolled in the program. Another 500,000 are estimated to be eligible, but are not enrolled. I don't know the number of affected family members, but your figure of 5 million seems in the ball park. The conservative Cato Institute estimates that it will cost the US 60 billion dollars to deport the dreamers, and that US economic growth will lose $280 billion over the next ten years. I don't really see that the president needs to "have a heart," as so many are now calling for--he just needs to have a brain.
So even the Cato Institute thinks that deporting the dreamers is a a bad idea, at least from the point of view of the effect it would have on the economy. Interesting.
 

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I've been trying to imagine how it would feel to be a person born in the U.S. or brought here as a child being sent away from all he/she knows to what will be a "foreign" country where there are fewer opportunities. That thought is mind blowing.

As another poster said, the president needs to use his brain on this one, but I also wish he could think outside of himself and have a heart. It's called "empathy", and I'm not seeing much there so far. Maybe Congress will stop this cruel plan.
 

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Trump will end DACA simply because he can, it was a campaign promise, his voter base wants immigration reform and best of all for him, it will drive the democrats absolutely nuts.

They want to obstruct and resist and they have and I see Trump as a very spiteful person. If they want to pass another form of DACA they will now have to bargain, conceding some points to his other demands like health care reform, the wall, NAFTA and other agendas. Even if they reach an agreement Trump can veto it I believe if he wishes. I don't see him embracing any form of DACA or anything like it.

These kids will be used for a political football for the next six months and no agreement will be reached as neither party is willing to work with the other. This sucks because a lot of them came over as such small children they did not have any say in the matter.

Trump will systematically undo every executive order Obama made on immigration. It is not the president's job to change or write the immigration laws of America, that is up to congress.

Can Congress voluntarily give some of its powers to the president, either by legislation or by impotent acquiescence, when the president takes them?

In a word, no.

The purpose of the division of powers — Congress writes the laws, the president enforces the laws, and the courts interpret them and decide what they mean — is to preserve personal liberty by preventing the accumulation of too much power in one branch of government.

Twenty six states sued over DACA. The 26 states and the House told the Supreme Court that the president is enforcing the laws not as Congress wrote them but as he wishes them to have been written, because he actually directed officials of the executive branch to enforce the versions of the laws that he rewrote instead of the laws on the books.

That arguably violates his oath of office, in which he agreed that he would "faithfully" enforce all federal laws.

Obama advised Trump about using executive orders, "My suggestion to the president-elect is, you know, going through the legislative process is always better, in part because it's harder to undo,"

Looks like he should have heeded his own words.
 

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. . . Obama advised Trump about using executive orders, "My suggestion to the president-elect is, you know, going through the legislative process is always better, in part because it's harder to undo,"

Looks like he should have heeded his own words.
How was Obama supposed to go through the legislative process with a Congress determined to fight him every inch of the way?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
When my four grandparents came over from Hitler's Germany (and they were not Jewish) was there even an immigration policy in the US. What happened when the boat landed at Ellis Island ? Were immigrants welcomed with open arms - or did they have to wait years for acceptance ?

Apparently the number of illegal aliens in the US peaked in 2007 at 12 million and has declined since. The number of illegal Mexicans in the US is down 1 million since its high.

I was trying to find the breakdown of the 800,000 dreamers based on nationality but have not found it. I'll bet there are a sizable number of Canadians. I know that I knew a number of (college educated) Canadians living (and working) in Florida who were not legal. There were even more Brazilians. I believe in a neighboring town - at its peak - there were 70,000 Brazilians. Sister city they called it ...

Trump's grandfather (a German) was thrown out of Germany. I can't understand why no one brings that up.

I heard today that 75% of Americans think the dreamers should stay.

I wish that Mexico could come up with some sort of enticement to bring its dreamers back. I wish Mexico could come up with a plan to bring all its emigrants back. Perhaps something like no tax on income for some period or free education or housing. Just get them out of there. That is why I said earlier - keep the agricultural workers in Mexico. Even do it coyly. Don't make a big thing about it. Just say - ok - no problem - have it your way. The US (as it stands now) does not deserve the hard-working Mexican help.

I said to my wife earlier today - imagine if Mexico were to say to us tomorrow - you have 6 months to get out. Mexico is where we have our home. We have invested heavily in Mexico. Everything we own (excluding some bank accounts and such) is here. My wife responded - that would be bad if we had to return to the US - but what they are proposing the dreamers do is like Mexico sent us back to France or something. We know the US. Those people have no knowledge of Mexico.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
What the US needs to consider is banning the use of robotics in manufacturing - as well as self-driving vehicles. I understand they now have self driving 40 foot trailers !!
 

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Over 30 years ago, my husband began working with the earlier IBM mainframes and progressed in his career to become an IT director in a medium sized company. His take on automation way back when was that it was going to destroy the human job market. It apparently has done so quite efficiently in the ensuing years. As he says, he made his living in that world but saw a dire end result from automation. Robotics is the final job killer.

The U.S. propably won't be able to stomach the kind of socialism in the Nordic countries that pays a citizen a living wage even if there's no job available.
What to do? Who knows?

The farming industry will truly be up that famous creek if it doesn't have access to the Mexican stoop labor. These are the jobs citizens won't do. I believe Presidente Fox made a famous crude comment on the subject some time ago.

I loved the comment that sending us back to the U..S. is not like sending Dreamers to Mexico. It would be more like sending us to France or Germany.

Something is terribly wrong with twisting the country into a knot over those ill-considered campaign promises.
 

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The Luddites are coming out of the woodwork. What shall we ban next?
 

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Having some concern over the end results of turning jobs over to robots is a long cry from the era of the Luddites. Surely you can come up with a more thoughtful response to the the issue?
 

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What the US needs to consider is banning the use of robotics in manufacturing - as well as self-driving vehicles. I understand they now have self driving 40 foot trailers !!
This statement reeks with the words of a Luddite.

As for a better answer, I couldn't step lower.
 

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The entire situation sucks. It sucks that they can't make a decent living in Mexico so they have to make a choice of "break the law or live in poverty." It sucks that they have to live in fear of deportation and separation from each other.

But that is a choice their parents made, to break the law for a better life for their family, the same choice that I would make in their shoes. But if I got caught I would expect to get deported along with my family.


But that is the law. America has to have some type of control as to who crosses the borders and what their intentions are. There is a television show about the Canadian border guards and their daily routine. They do a criminal background check on every single person. One man had been arrested for "Causing a disturbance" and claimed he didn't remember the incident, they were refusing entry. People are turned away every day from Canada because they have a criminal background and no one blinks an eye. America deports an illegal and people march in protest.

A human trafficking tunnel was discovered August 28 from Mexico into the U.S. 30 people were arrested with 23 of them Being Chinese.

Human-smuggling tunnel discovered near Mexican border | New York Post

With the problems in the world of terrorism we need to secure our borders now more than ever.

But that doesn't solve DACA, it never should have been passed, again it's not the president's job or place to write immigration laws, let alone force his beliefs on the people by executive order. Now when it goes away it will be a huge problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Trump recently (Friday ?) said that it is the Dreamers who are taking jobs away from American youth. So his solution - get rid of the Dreamers. My comment was in that context. I don't have any skin in the game. I'm done working (30 years in tech by the way - with a handful of US patents). I don't have any kids who are looking for a job.

I think it is wrong to jerk people around. Heck - if I were a Dreamer - I wouldn't wait around for 6 months waiting to see how this all turns out. I would start considering alternatives this morning.
 

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How was Obama supposed to go through the legislative process with a Congress determined to fight him every inch of the way?
Exactly, if the people through their elected representatives didn't want this bill he should not have crammed it through. Obama never cared what others thought as he said, "I have a pen and a phone" in other words, he was going to do it his way regardless of what the law or congress said.

Now it is all easily being undone and people are suffering the insecurity of what will happen to me, or my family tomorrow?

Trump is a hardliner on immigration, he doesn't want to break up families, he wants to deport the entire family. Where Obama tied the hands of federal immigration officials Trump is going to enforce the laws currently on the books. His voting base is behind him on this and he has three and a half more years to go, unless he wins the next election also.
 

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"Trump is a hardliner on immigration, he doesn't want to break up families, he wants to deport the entire family. "
That is a prizewinning line!

Mr. Trump is "forcing his beliefs" on people quite often lately: matters such as gutting worker protections, environmental regulations and a number of other matters. His appointments are still another example.
 

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It does look like Mr. Trump is "forcing his beliefs" on people quite often lately: matters such as gutting worker protections, environmental issues and a number of other matters. His appointments are still another example.
With a popularity hovering around 30% and losing the faith of the Republican Congress, how can he get any part of his agenda passed? His appointments are reflecting the opposite definition of the agencies and department they run. Still, he has a huge backlog of appointment that go unfulfilled.
 
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