Expat Forum For People Moving Overseas And Living Abroad banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 38 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
hi everyone,

i am looking at moving out to spain in may/june 2010 with family including baby,
we are selling up and i just wondered what is the situation on vacancies in the building trade.

thankyou:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33,612 Posts
hi everyone,

i am looking at moving out to spain in may/june 2010 with family including baby,
we are selling up and i just wondered what is the situation on vacancies in the building trade.

thankyou:)
I would strongly recommend you dont sell up. Rent out and rent here maybe?? The building industry is not good here. There are millions of half built and unsold properties here due to the economic crisis, building companies going bust all over the country. 17% unemloyment and rising and thats spanish nationals! From what I can see, the only building work that is continuing here, is government generated to keep the builders etc in employment. At one point there were alot of polish builders working at Málaga airport, but I think alot of those have gone now (probably to the UK LOL) cos the Spanish didnt like their jobs being taken

Come over by all means, cos it is a nice place to bring up a child, but you'll need a steady and secure income. So dont burn your UK bridges, certainly not until you're sure you can survive over here!

Jo xxx
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,443 Posts
Spain October 2009

Hi Spanster,
I get the impression you haven't looked through some of the recent posts about the situation in Spain at the moment. Try looking at these...

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/29832-spains-recession.html

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/30737-hoping-move-spain.html

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/30197-moving-spain.html


I'm afraid they are not optimistic if you don't have a job to go to and don't speak Spanish. Sorry, :( but better to know now than when it's too late
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I would strongly recommend you dont sell up. Rent out and rent here maybe?? The building industry is not good here. There are millions of half built and unsold properties here due to the economic crisis, building companies going bust all over the country. 17% unemloyment and rising and thats spanish nationals! From what I can see, the only building work that is continuing here, is government generated to keep the builders etc in employment. At one point there were alot of polish builders working at Málaga airport, but I think alot of those have gone now (probably to the UK LOL) cos the Spanish didnt like their jobs being taken

Come over by all means, cos it is a nice place to bring up a child, but you'll need a steady and secure income. So dont burn your UK bridges, certainly not until you're sure you can survive over here!

Jo xxx
Thanks i appreciate it x
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,443 Posts
I would strongly recommend you dont sell up. Rent out and rent here maybe?? The building industry is not good here. There are millions of half built and unsold properties here due to the economic crisis, building companies going bust all over the country. 17% unemloyment and rising and thats spanish nationals! From what I can see, the only building work that is continuing here, is government generated to keep the builders etc in employment. At one point there were alot of polish builders working at Málaga airport, but I think alot of those have gone now (probably to the UK LOL) cos the Spanish didnt like their jobs being taken

Come over by all means, cos it is a nice place to bring up a child, but you'll need a steady and secure income. So dont burn your UK bridges, certainly not until you're sure you can survive over here!

Jo xxx
As Jo says come over, but don't burn your bridges!
Look at the thread Good news for those living in Spain!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
I would strongly recommend you dont sell up. Rent out and rent here maybe?? The building industry is not good here. There are millions of half built and unsold properties here due to the economic crisis, building companies going bust all over the country. 17% unemloyment and rising and thats spanish nationals! From what I can see, the only building work that is continuing here, is government generated to keep the builders etc in employment. At one point there were alot of polish builders working at Málaga airport, but I think alot of those have gone now (probably to the UK LOL) cos the Spanish didnt like their jobs being taken

Come over by all means, cos it is a nice place to bring up a child, but you'll need a steady and secure income. So dont burn your UK bridges, certainly not until you're sure you can survive over here!

Jo xxx
I would start looking for a rental place now, the long term rentals are dropping like a stone due to the previous two months bad weather. By May/June next year they always seem to increase their prices for the summer months. Or if you are in the building game, consider a shell or half build, as the Developers cant move them at the moment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,513 Posts
I would start looking for a rental place now, the long term rentals are dropping like a stone due to the previous two months bad weather. By May/June next year they always seem to increase their prices for the summer months. Or if you are in the building game, consider a shell or half build, as the Developers cant move them at the moment.
The only problem with looking for a rental property now, if they arent planning on coming over until 2010 is holding it .... landlords would expect rent up front to reserve a property for that length of time , and I wouldnt personally do that so far in advance.

Also long term rents are usually driven by the weather are they :confused::confused: if you are renting long term you are here all year round so the weather doesnt affect the price, and whereabouts in Spain are yoy the last 2 months here the weather has been fabulous! :)
If they are planning to be living here by May 2010, then coming over for a visit and viewing around March/April time should be fine and there will be plenty of long terms rentals still out there.

Sue :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Next April is to late for a good deal

The only problem with looking for a rental property now, if they arent planning on coming over until 2010 is holding it .... landlords would expect rent up front to reserve a property for that length of time , and I wouldnt personally do that so far in advance.

Also long term rents are usually driven by the weather are they :confused::confused: if you are renting long term you are here all year round so the weather doesnt affect the price, and whereabouts in Spain are yoy the last 2 months here the weather has been fabulous! :)
If they are planning to be living here by May 2010, then coming over for a visit and viewing around March/April time should be fine and there will be plenty of long terms rentals still out there.

Sue :)
I am in Pedreguer, which is the Costa Blanca, it rained non stop from the
6th of September until the start of October, the start of October was very hit and miss, and if you would have seen the Costa Blanca newspapers you would have seen, some of the worst weather here for years.
Yes the weather does affect the price, even on long term, this part of the Costa Blanca feeds of tourism as much as the rest of Spain, so after a hard summer, a very wet autumn, the economy, 18% unemployment, and the fact that this winter will be one of the hardest going for small businesses, a good time to come over is in the next few months, to look for long term rental, but not from an agent, go direct to the owner, and negotiate yourself, and just leave a deposit, there are many British expats, who would be happy, just to have a guarantee that someone is renting. Nearly all the estate agents here, are moving into long term rental, as the property market is not moving.
Take Gata Residencial estate, in Gata De Gorgos, there are 450 houses built around 5 or 6 years ago. They have now some 200+ up for rent, at prices lower than 1 year ago. However a lot choose at the begining of the year either to go for the summer rental or long term, they will not leave the summer rental option to long, as they will Not fill their allocation, leaving it until April, is to late in my opinion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33,612 Posts
........ a good time to come over is in the next few months, to look for long term rental, but not from an agent, go direct to the owner, and negotiate yourself, and just leave a deposit, there are many British expats, who would be happy, just to have a guarantee that someone is renting. Nearly all the estate agents here, are moving into long term rental, as the property market is not moving.
.

I´m not sure I'd reccomend that, unless you pay the rental for the whole period as well, or have a very watertight contract drawn up for both parties involved. Quite frankly I cant see why you need to rush at all!! When you choose to come over you'll find just as many properties at just the same prices, unless you're looking at holiday homes, which tend to charge extremely high prices thru the summer. Normal long term rentals dont change their prices much, altho they are still dropping, its a renters market!

Jo xxx
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22,399 Posts
a good time to come over is in the next few months, to look for long term rental, but not from an agent, go direct to the owner, and negotiate yourself, and just leave a deposit, there are many British expats, who would be happy, just to have a guarantee that someone is renting.


Yes, put the money in a pretty envelope, tie it with a nice pink bow and write 'Happy Christmas' on it.;)
Seriously, that doesn't seem a very prudent way to do business. A good agent will not charge a tenant a 'finders fee' and will see that you have a proper legally-binding rental contract and, if appropriate, an inventory.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
a good time to come over is in the next few months, to look for long term rental, but not from an agent, go direct to the owner, and negotiate yourself, and just leave a deposit, there are many British expats, who would be happy, just to have a guarantee that someone is renting.


Yes, put the money in a pretty envelope, tie it with a nice pink bow and write 'Happy Christmas' on it.;)
Seriously, that doesn't seem a very prudent way to do business. A good agent will not charge a tenant a 'finders fee' and will see that you have a proper legally-binding rental contract and, if appropriate, an inventory.
All agents charge a "finders fee" whether it is passed on to the renter by way of double deposit, is a different matter. If you have been in Spain for a time, then you know most contracts here, are only as good as the agents, landlords and renters that enter into it. One point you are correct on is the money, but with officialy registered escrow agents now, you can leave a deposit that is safe, and secure for both parties, and costs very little, which is as close to a guarantee as possible. The only thing thats guaranteed in life is death.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33,612 Posts
All agents charge a "finders fee" whether it is passed on to the renter by way of double deposit, is a different matter. If you have been in Spain for a time, then you know most contracts here, are only as good as the agents, landlords and renters that enter into it. One point you are correct on is the money, but with officialy registered escrow agents now, you can leave a deposit that is safe, and secure for both parties, and costs very little, which is as close to a guarantee as possible. The only thing thats guaranteed in life is death.
No landlord in their right mind would accept a deposit on a property and then let it sit empty for months without an income! What happens if someone else comes along in the meantime and offers them more money and an immediate rent?? They may be honest enough to return the deposit with an apology if you're lucky!

I personally, would always recommend using an agent too, especially new expats - finders fee or not, cos they also take on alot of the other paperwork, transferring bills, phoneline/internet, padron, NIE, residencia, teething problems, and most importantly translating! When we first came here, I can honestly say we couldnt have managed without our agents! They were marvellous - and still are!!

Jo xxx
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22,399 Posts
All agents charge a "finders fee" whether it is passed on to the renter by way of double deposit, is a different matter. If you have been in Spain for a time, then you know most contracts here, are only as good as the agents, landlords and renters that enter into it. One point you are correct on is the money, but with officialy registered escrow agents now, you can leave a deposit that is safe, and secure for both parties, and costs very little, which is as close to a guarantee as possible. The only thing thats guaranteed in life is death.
All contracts are only as good as the intentions of the signers anywhere. Our landlord was charged one month's rent by the Agency we both used. For that money the Agent arranged for transfer of utility accounts and the drawing up of a contract of rental.
A large sum for not much work but agents have to make a living too.
As a former landlord, I would have had to have been pretty desperate to accept a deposit as rental for a property with no income from the property for several months. But then I can imagine that in the current climate, many landlords are desperate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
All contracts are only as good as the intentions of the signers anywhere. Our landlord was charged one month's rent by the Agency we both used. For that money the Agent arranged for transfer of utility accounts and the drawing up of a contract of rental.
A large sum for not much work but agents have to make a living too.
As a former landlord, I would have had to have been pretty desperate to accept a deposit as rental for a property with no income from the property for several months. But then I can imagine that in the current climate, many landlords are desperate.
You are totaly correct, when it comes to desperate landlords, we have a vast amount of properties on the North Costa Blanca sitting idle, I know of some, that have sat empty for over a year. I have friends that payed 250K sterling for a villa, that is now up for 150K euro, they cant find renters, long or short, and I am sure there are a lot with 2nd homes that are not taking any income.
My original point was that, there is and will be some great deals to come in the coming months, but with all the real estate agents now pitching long term rentals, by the time it hits next April, a lot of Landords will start thinking its better to get 3 or 4 weeks summer rental booked now than wait for a long term rental. Summer rentals are normaly booked longer than 2 months in advance. Dont only think that the summer rental market is for large villas with pools, If you look through the web or Costa Blanca adverts, there are a lot that are small apartments or flats. However there will always be somewhere to rent from May, but quality and price will change.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,443 Posts
All agents charge a "finders fee" whether it is passed on to the renter by way of double deposit, is a different matter. If you have been in Spain for a time, then you know most contracts here ??, are only as good as the agents, landlords and renters that enter into it. One point you are correct on is the money, but with officialy registered escrow agents now, you can leave a deposit that is safe, and secure for both parties, and costs very little, which is as close to a guarantee as possible. The only thing thats guaranteed in life is death.
Hi timetravel4u,
I just wanted to ask you about your point here about contracts. Now it's a long time since I've had a rent contract, but surely a legal contract in Spain is just as good as a legal contract in the UK and if it comes to that an illegal contract is just as bad in either country too, isn't it?? Perhaps there were more rip off contracts in the past, but nowadays I believe that if you do things right, like read and make sure you understand your contract before you sign it, you should be OK.
As for the finders fee, the previous poster did say that a good agent wouldn't pass that on to the tenant, so I make that at least 2 points that she's right on...
Hope i understood your posts correctly:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Hi timetravel4u,
I just wanted to ask you about your point here about contracts. Now it's a long time since I've had a rent contract, but surely a legal contract in Spain is just as good as a legal contract in the UK and if it comes to that an illegal contract is just as bad in either country too, isn't it?? Perhaps there were more rip off contracts in the past, but nowadays I believe that if you do things right, like read and make sure you understand your contract before you sign it, you should be OK.
As for the finders fee, the previous poster did say that a good agent wouldn't pass that on to the tenant, so I make that at least 2 points that she's right on...
Hope i understood your posts correctly:)
A contract can be legal, but does not mean it will be adhered to by the landlord or renter, the standard contract that is used is purchased for about 18 euros from the post office. Yes you should read and understand it, however understanding it does not mean " you should be OK". As I am sure you are aware trying to get things done over here, when it comes to a complaint are sometimes a little frustrating. If the agent does not charge a finders fee, it is loaded on as a secound deposit, if they charge the landlord without it being added on to the deposit then fine.
I am sure the previous poster is correct on a lot of things, but as this is a forum, I was offering my opinion as to why the first poster should not only think of leaving it until next April, to look for a property to rent, not to be jumped upon because I had a difference of opinion.
Hope I undertsood your post correctly.
JoJo has been very fortunate to find a marvelous Agent, and possibly she should think of recommending them to the first poster, that could be a new thread Good or Bad Real Estate Agents/Rental companies.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
381 Posts
All agents charge a "finders fee" whether it is passed on to the renter by way of double deposit, is a different matter. If you have been in Spain for a time, then you know most contracts here, are only as good as the agents, landlords and renters that enter into it. One point you are correct on is the money, but with officialy registered escrow agents now, you can leave a deposit that is safe, and secure for both parties, and costs very little, which is as close to a guarantee as possible. The only thing thats guaranteed in life is death.
Here up North, reputable agents don't charge a finder's fee either for renting or or purchasing. The vendor pays the fee or the comission. 10% of the rent or between 2 and 3% for a sale. In the case of the comission on a sale it is paying for the service which includes from advertising, to showing the property and to preparing all the paperwork. In the case of the fee for renting it covers changing all the utilities and sorting out any problem that may occur during the rental such as tradespeople to provide fuel, technicians to carry out services on the boiler or people to carry out repairs that need to be done. Not a bad service for around 30€ a month.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,443 Posts
A contract can be legal, but does not mean it will be adhered to by the landlord or renter, the standard contract that is used is purchased for about 18 euros from the post office. Yes you should read and understand it, however understanding it does not mean " you should be OK". As I am sure you are aware trying to get things done over here, when it comes to a complaint are sometimes a little frustrating. If the agent does not charge a finders fee, it is loaded on as a secound deposit, if they charge the landlord without it being added on to the deposit then fine.
I am sure the previous poster is correct on a lot of things, but as this is a forum, I was offering my opinion as to why the first poster should not only think of leaving it until next April, to look for a property to rent, not to be jumped upon because I had a difference of opinion.
Hope I undertsood your post correctly.
JoJo has been very fortunate to find a marvelous Agent, and possibly she should think of recommending them to the first poster, that could be a new thread Good or Bad Real Estate Agents/Rental companies.

Well, I don't think you did understand what I was saying. You said that

If you have been in Spain for a time, then you know most contracts here, are only as good as the agents, landlords and renters that enter into it.

I’m wondering why you say here, cos I think it’s the same here and in the UK, isn’t it? If the contract is legal, it's legal, and if it isn't, it isn't

but as this is a forum, I was offering my opinion as to why the first poster should not only think of leaving it until next April, to look for a property to rent, not to be jumped upon because I had a difference of opinion.

I hope you don’t think you’re being jumped on! Just asking for clarification of your opinion. Go ahead and offer your opinion, please!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Well, I don't think you did understand what I was saying. You said that

If you have been in Spain for a time, then you know most contracts here, are only as good as the agents, landlords and renters that enter into it.

I’m wondering why you say here, cos I think it’s the same here and in the UK, isn’t it? If the contract is legal, it's legal, and if it isn't, it isn't

but as this is a forum, I was offering my opinion as to why the first poster should not only think of leaving it until next April, to look for a property to rent, not to be jumped upon because I had a difference of opinion.

I hope you don’t think you’re being jumped on! Just asking for clarification of your opinion. Go ahead and offer your opinion, please!
If you think here and the UK are the same, when it comes legal or not legal then I think your wrong, the laws in Spain are very much different than the UK. Below is two differences of law, which are not in the UK

Quote: If a renter has not made payment for some time and the Landlord is trying to evict them legally the renter can apply for an “enervación” by which the landlord has to forcefully grant them an opportunity to pay up before the judgment. Even if the landlord refuses payment they can deposit the amount owed at the court and the landlord is forced to continue the rental agreement. This forfeits the legal action taken. However, the tenant can resort to the “enervación” only once. Should they fail to pay a second time this will lead ultimately to an eviction.

Quote: In Spain short term lets (typically 11 months) have been devised to waive the Rental Act (LAU). The LAU stipulates that any tenant staying longer than a year in a property without the landlord’s opposition is entitled legally to stay in it for the next 4 years making a total of 5 years (long term let).


"nowadays I believe that if you do things right, like read and make sure you understand your contract before you sign it, you should be OK"
In my Opinion the above sentence is wrong, on the grounds that if you read and understand a contract it does not make it OK, as the laws in Spain are very much different than the UK, and there are many pitfalls, than what you just get in a standard rental contract.
Thanks
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,426 Posts
Quote: In Spain short term lets (typically 11 months) have been devised to waive the Rental Act (LAU). The LAU stipulates that any tenant staying longer than a year in a property without the landlord’s opposition is entitled legally to stay in it for the next 4 years making a
total of 5 years (long term let).

**This issue about 11 months is trotted out WRONGLY so often it is no wonder that people believe it.

Here are THE FACTS

"It is at these times that landlords suffer from not having received appropriate legal advice before the rental contract was ever signed. One of the most frequent errors that we find when reviewing rental contracts that have already been signed by our clients (without our advice, of course) is the duration of such contracts: 11 months. This duration had been agreed as the landlord had tried to avoid the rental contract being automatically extended up to 5 years. This is completely incorrect thinking. The key factor to avoid in the contract being automatically extended up to a maximum of 5 years is not that the initial duration of the contract is less than a year; the decisive point is that the property in question is different from the tenant's primary residence (irrespective of whether the contract states a duration greater than one year). Thus, it is vital that the address stated on the contract for notifications to the tenant is different to the one of the property rented. The tenant must also confirm that this other property is his/her primary residence. As a result of these type of mistakes, many clients are forced to accept an extension to their rental contracts despite the fact that the term indicated in these contracts was 11 months and because they have not stated that the property was for other purposes (sale, rent, own use, etc)." From eLs lawyers.


Much of everything else you say is opinion. I will disagree with you, you will disagree with me. My opinion is (a) it would be folly to sell up in UK (b) that the OP will have zero problem finding a long term rent WHENEVER it suits them and (c) I would not dream of leaving a deposit with anybody for 7/8 months - agent or owner. Will the agent survive? Doubtful. Will the landlord rent to the next person who comes along and offers a long-term contract from today? Yes.

Good luck, OP. It is and will continue to be a buyer's/tenant's market. That is the good news. Whether you can earn enough to cover even a reduced rental is IMHO doubtful.
 
1 - 20 of 38 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top