[Divanjenny]

Hi

I am brand new to the forum and wanted people’s views that live in New Zealand and decided to move to the country.

My wife and I are newlyweds at the age of 27 and been born and bred in South Africa. Both of us have very respectful jobs in South African and been in the corporate environment for the last 9-10 years.
We decided that it is now the best time to make the change after years of discussion.

My main concern is the cost of living in New Zealand and after reading many blogs ,forums and articles we are still not sure what is a very reasonable salary.

I have seen many responses of NZ$ 80 - 100 PA is this true ?? My wife and I will have a combined salary of NZ$ 130-140 PA

Please can someone give us some advice and closure.

Thanks

Dcf

 

[topcat83]

Hi

I am brand new to the forum and wanted people’s views that live in New Zealand and decided to move to the country.

My wife and I are newlyweds at the age of 27 and been born and bred in South Africa. Both of us have very respectful jobs in South African and been in the corporate environment for the last 9-10 years.
We decided that it is now the best time to make the change after years of discussion.

My main concern is the cost of living in New Zealand and after reading many blogs ,forums and articles we are still not sure what is a very reasonable salary.

I have seen many responses of NZ$ 80 - 100 PA is this true ?? My wife and I will have a combined salary of NZ$ 130-140 PA

Please can someone give us some advice and closure.

Thanks

Dcf

Hi there

On $130-140k PA you should have a very comfortable lifestyle.

However, don't expect it to be the same lifestyle as SA.
I know a number of my South African friends who found that they had to do much more themselves than they were used to. I can still remember turning up at one of their houses on a Saturday morning to find her dressed up as if she were going into an operating theatre because she had to clean the bathroom!!!

 

[chellebubbles]

I have found that there are far more people looking for work than jobs available so it seems it is an 'employers market' out there. My boyfriend got work as a buyer within a month, im still looking for work in food retail. Lifestyle here depends what you are after, its not cheap though. Cost of living similar to UK, food prices, fuel etc etc. Good luck

 

[KiwiRoo]

Hi there

On $130-140k PA you should have a very comfortable lifestyle.

However, don't expect it to be the same lifestyle as SA.
I know a number of my South African friends who found that they had to do much more themselves than they were used to. I can still remember turning up at one of their houses on a Saturday morning to find her dressed up as if she were going into an operating theatre because she had to clean the bathroom!!!

That's quite funny, I'm sure she dressed up like that because South Africans, coming from a warm sunny climate, are not used to mold that can proliferate overnight in your bathroom if you don't dry it properly. We had a heat lamp in our bathroom just to keep the mirror clear of steam. Poor woman, must have been quite a shock. Mold allergies are rife in the wetter parts of NZ, like Auckland. so I can't blame her really.

 

[topcat83]

That's quite funny, I'm sure she dressed up like that because South Africans, coming from a warm sunny climate, are not used to mold that can proliferate overnight in your bathroom if you don't dry it properly. We had a heat lamp in our bathroom just to keep the mirror clear of steam. Poor woman, must have been quite a shock. Mold allergies are rife in the wetter parts of NZ, like Auckland. so I can't blame her really.

Lol - I don't think it was anything to do with that. She came from a very privileged background in SA and had never had to clean anything before - never mind the toilet! It was her way of protecting herself from all the germs she perceived were there!

 

[KiwiRoo]

Lol - I don't think it was anything to do with that. She came from a very privileged background in SA and had never had to clean anything before - never mind the toilet! It was her way of protecting herself from all the germs she perceived were there!

Oh, silly me, I didn't catch your drift.

So are you're saying people from a very privileged background, not necessarily South Africans either, should not expect the same kind of lifestyle in NZ? I think there is a problem with such a statement, your lifestyle and skilled category immigrant generally falls into such a category anyway, specially the investment types. Surely NZ Immigration regards people with money (privileged) as an asset for a struggling economy?

I must just tell you, living in Christchurch as a family with both parents working, I had a cleaning service come in once a week, there was no way I was going to clean toilets / bathrooms on my days off, I regard that as a choice, not a privilege.

 

[topcat83]

Oh, silly me, I didn't catch your drift.

So are you're saying people from a very privileged background, not necessarily South Africans either, should not expect the same kind of lifestyle in NZ? I think there is a problem with such a statement, your lifestyle and skilled category immigrant generally falls into such a category anyway, specially the investment types. Surely NZ Immigration regards people with money (privileged) as an asset for a struggling economy?

I must just tell you, living in Christchurch as a family with both parents working, I had a cleaning service come in once a week, there was no way I was going to clean toilets / bathrooms on my days off, I regard that as a choice, not a privilege.

I think in the case of even the more moderately to do South Africans, it will be different because of the type and number of 'servants' you are likely to have. I put the word in quotes because I'm not sure how else to put it. There are certainly cleaning agencies who will come in and clean your house for you (my friend owns one such agency). and gardening agencies who will come and cut your lawns and tidy the garden - but it is done very much on a business basis, and the people who come in will not consider themselves to be 'servants'. They are very much equals, who are providing a service that you are prepared to pay for. It's one of the things I like about NZ - the concept of 'classes' is much looser.

 

[carosapien]

My best friend is a lawyer from South Africa, she's a non-white. She's never had a servant in her life and is quite happy to roll up her sleeves and clean her own bathroom. You can't assume privilege just because of someone's country of origin.

My main concern is the cost of living in New Zealand and after reading many blogs ,forums and articles we are still not sure what is a very reasonable salary.

I have seen many responses of NZ$ 80 - 100 PA is this true ?? My wife and I will have a combined salary of NZ$ 130-140 PA

She earns more than NZ$130 and her husband does too. They have a comfortable lifestyle on their combined salaries.

I wouldn't like to live on NZ$80-100, not in New Zealand anyway.

 

[topcat83]

My best friend is a lawyer from South Africa, she's a non-white. She's never had a servant in her life and is quite happy to roll up her sleeves and clean her own bathroom. You can't assume privilege just because of someone's country of origin.

You are very right, carosapien. And I don't assume anything. The lady I was talking about says herself that - even in white pre-Aparteid South African terms - she came from a very privileged background.

And the majority of the SA's that I have met are from a European background. And without exception they are happy to roll up their sleeves while in NZ to do whatever they need to do. But (generally) they lived in security compounds or behind fences in SA, and (generally) they had servants. SA has changed in many ways, thank goodness, from the years of Apartheid, but from what I can work out from my friends, until very recently it was still (generally) the Europeans that had a privileged lifestyle when compared to the non-Europeans.
They all love their country of birth, but say how (generally) they feel so much safer here, and that's (generally) the reason they moved.
So - no assumptions - and I've never been to SA myself but I can listen to what I'm being told and make some (general) conclusions.

 

[KiwiRoo]

I think in the case of even the more moderately to do South Africans, it will be different because of the type and number of 'servants' you are likely to have. I put the word in quotes because I'm not sure how else to put it. There are certainly cleaning agencies who will come in and clean your house for you (my friend owns one such agency). and gardening agencies who will come and cut your lawns and tidy the garden - but it is done very much on a business basis, and the people who come in will not consider themselves to be 'servants'. They are very much equals, who are providing a service that you are prepared to pay for. It's one of the things I like about NZ - the concept of 'classes' is much looser.

If your friend owns a cleaning agency, then you will also know that generally, they employ migrants, in particular Asian migrants, nowadays.

I did not get an agency to come in and clean for me though. They charge a fortune but more important, they work on contract mostly. I did not want to get tied into any long term contracts just for casual cleaning. Christchurch has small communities, so I just did by reference what most of my neighbours did. I got a casual cleaner (Asian lady) who only accepted cash. Your friend with the cleaning agency will be well aware of this practice.

The cleaner got what she wanted and so did we. As a matter of interest, she told us that she started off working for a Cleaning Agent but was earning so little for hard, physical and often, very grubby, work. Said she couldn't understand why Cleaning Agent's fees were so high yet the cleaners themselves earned a pittance. So she decided to do her own thing and was earning much more that way.

 

[carosapien]

If your friend owns a cleaning agency, then you will also know that generally, they employ migrants, in particular Asian migrants, nowadays.

I did not get an agency to come in and clean for me though. They charge a fortune but more important, they work on contract mostly. I did not want to get tied into any long term contracts just for casual cleaning. Christchurch has small communities, so I just did by reference what most of my neighbours did. I got a casual cleaner (Asian lady) who only accepted cash. Your friend with the cleaning agency will be well aware of this practice.

The cleaner got what she wanted and so did we. As a matter of interest, she told us that she started off working for a Cleaning Agent but was earning so little for hard, physical and often, very grubby, work. Said she couldn't understand why Cleaning Agent's fees were so high yet the cleaners themselves earned a pittance. So she decided to do her own thing and was earning much more that way.

Sounds like something approaching slave labour. Good for her for refusing to be exploited and deciding to work for herself.

 

[topcat83]

If your friend owns a cleaning agency, then you will also know that generally, they employ migrants, in particular Asian migrants, nowadays.

I did not get an agency to come in and clean for me though. They charge a fortune but more important, they work on contract mostly. I did not want to get tied into any long term contracts just for casual cleaning. Christchurch has small communities, so I just did by reference what most of my neighbours did. I got a casual cleaner (Asian lady) who only accepted cash. Your friend with the cleaning agency will be well aware of this practice.

The cleaner got what she wanted and so did we. As a matter of interest, she told us that she started off working for a Cleaning Agent but was earning so little for hard, physical and often, very grubby, work. Said she couldn't understand why Cleaning Agent's fees were so high yet the cleaners themselves earned a pittance. So she decided to do her own thing and was earning much more that way.

Lol - not hers. My friend does it all herself!

And I think we're getting away from the point of the original point, wiich is the difference in the 'labour force' between NZ and other countries. In NZ (as you have pointed out) there are many more people who work for themselves and are not 'employed' as servants.

 

[KiwiRoo]

Sounds like something approaching slave labour. Good for her for refusing to be exploited and deciding to work for herself.

I wish I could tell you that this is limited to the cleaning industry in NZ, but it's not. Rife in Agricultural industries. As far as exploitation goes, it exists in NZ just like it does in the rest of the world.

 

[KiwiRoo]

And I think we're getting away from the point of the original point, wiich is the difference in the 'labour force' between NZ and other countries. In NZ (as you have pointed out) there are many more people who work for themselves and are not 'employed' as servants.

LOL, you were the one who slipped away from the original point when you climbed onto your cleaning broom. I know some of the older generation Kiwis (and some of the young) bear these petty prejudices against South Africans, and even migrants in general. They believe Kiwis are clean and green and that equates to "our noses are clean".

Would you, the moderator of a Migration Forum, have told an Indian Migrant the same thing Topcat ? They too have a large servant class proportion of their population.

:focus:
DivanJenny, the kind of prejudice that you have witnessed here is not limited to a Forum like this one, you will encounter it in daily life too, so, before you spend you hard earned money, speak to a real live person, family, other South Africans, who knows NZ and can give you unbiased view of the country and a realistic estimation of costs. Listen to the good and bad as far as finance and jobs go, visit the country if you can.

I truly regard Forums as one of the worst places to gather reliable information, mostly because there are agendas, if not commercial agendas then prejudice. I read through these Forums and sometimes I can only smile at the s..... that's presented as gospel here.

 

[topcat83]

LOL, you were the one who slipped away from the original point when you climbed onto your cleaning broom. I know some of the older generation Kiwis (and some of the young) bear these petty prejudices against South Africans, and even migrants in general. They believe Kiwis are clean and green and that equates to "our noses are clean".

Would you, the moderator of a Migration Forum, have told an Indian Migrant the same thing Topcat ? They too have a large servant class proportion of their population.

:focus:
DivanJenny, the kind of prejudice that you have witnessed here is not limited to a Forum like this one, you will encounter it in daily life too, so, before you spend you hard earned money, speak to a real live person, family, other South Africans, who knows NZ and can give you unbiased view of the country and a realistic estimation of costs. Listen to the good and bad as far as finance and jobs go, visit the country if you can.

I truly regard Forums as one of the worst places to gather reliable information, mostly because there are agendas, if not commercial agendas then prejudice. I read through these Forums and sometimes I can only smile at the s..... that's presented as gospel here.

Actually, probably, yes. I probably would have said that to an Indian. Why not? Each country does have very different cultures, and unfortunately in any country it is usually the domestic workers who are the least paid.

I don't think I am prejudiced against any country particularly, but I do try and listen to what my friends with different experiences are telling me.
And I can honestly say that there is no commercial agenda on mine and as far as I know any other moderator's part. We do this for free, and because we want to help people who are interested in emigrating. I suppose everyone has some prejudices - after all we are all human beings, with out own thoughts. But there is a difference between trying to be honest about what we see and hear and being prejudiced.

And where else other than a Forum can you ask real human beings about their experiences? What I get fed up with is people who try and use those same forums by making unsubstantiated comments that attempt to sabotage the integrity of what we are trying to do.

Maybe one of the South Africans on this Forum can add to this - am I way out on what life was like in SA for the 'typical' European South African who migrates to New Zealand?

 

[zxc2]

TopCat, did you know South Africa is an ex British Colony?** Being from
England surely you are aware of this?* You seem to know a lot about the
South African White privileged lifestyle, even though you never set foot
in the country.* Did you know that a large section of the affluent
white population, that exploited cheap labour (domestic and industrial)
during the apartheid years, were actually British?*** Many policies
introduced under British rule, long before Apartheid, disenfranchised
black South Africans, preventing them from good education,* ensuring a
good, cheap supply of labour.

Some prominent British icons of SA you might recall.* Barney Barnato, British Randlord.* Cecil Rhodes, founder of the de
Beers diamond company.* Sir Herbert Baker, who designed and built
residences for British colonials in South Africa.*

I was raised without servants or gardeners, my mother refused as it was simply too dangerous to employ casual labour.
I may not be the norm but I'm definitely not the only one either.


Divanjenny,
allow approx 30% of your income for good, insulated accommodation, it saves on electricity and heating costs, essential during NZ winters.* You can get a
good second hand vehicle for around $ 15,000 but a word of warning about
4 x 4's.* They are cheap compared to what they cost in SA and many of
us buy them in NZ because we could not afford them in SA but have it
tested before you buy.** Shipping household contents vs selling and
buying new in NZ, the latter worked better for us.* Better to buy new
clothing in NZ, SA clothing won't work for NZ weather conditions, very
different ballgame.* Groceries I can't help you, I no longer live in NZ,
lost touch but note food is quite an expensive commodity in NZ,
specially the stuff that's locally made, no idea why.

 

[zxc2]

TopCat, did you know South Africa is an ex British Colony? Being from England surely you are aware of this? You seem to know a lot about the South African White privileged lifestyle, even though you never set foot
in the country. Did you know that a large section of the affluent white population, that exploited cheap labour (domestic and industrial) during the apartheid years, were actually British? Many policies introduced under British rule, long before Apartheid, disenfranchised black South Africans, preventing them from good education, ensuring a good, cheap supply of labour.

Some prominent British icons of SA you might recall. Barney Barnato, British Randlord. Cecil Rhodes, founder of the de Beers diamond company. Sir Herbert Baker, who designed and built residences for British colonials in South Africa.

I was raised without servants or gardeners, my mother refused as it was simply too dangerous to employ casual labour. I may not be the norm but I'm definitely not the only one either.


Divanjenny,
allow approx 30% of your income for good, insulated accommodation, it saves on electricity and heating costs, essential during NZ winters. You can get a good second hand vehicle for around $ 15,000 but a word of warning about 4 x 4's. They are cheap compared to what they cost in SA and many of us buy them in NZ because we could not afford them in SA but have it tested before you buy. Shipping household contents vs selling and buying new in NZ, the latter worked better for us. Better to buy new clothing in NZ, SA clothing won't work for NZ weather conditions, very different ballgame. Groceries I can't help you, I no longer live in NZ, lost touch but note food is quite an expensive commodity in NZ, specially the stuff that's locally made, no idea why.

 

[zxc2]

pls delete post #16, sorry was busy experimenting with new tablet

 

[anski]

I wouldn't like to live on NZ$80-100, not in New Zealand anyway

It all depends on circumstances, if you own your home, no mortgage & do not waste money buying buying the latest gadgets,restaurant meals & take always you can live comfortably. In fact many retired do on less than $40,000.

I know of a couple that even manage on this & take overseas holidays by exchanging homes & cars to keep costs down. It's all about budgeting & saving for that rainy day.

Of course if you have children & pets then it's a different story.