confusion with flights and visas

Hi UKTom

I think you need to do a lot more reserch, if you don't mind me saying. I think is a little too early to describe Thaialnd as perfect, if you have not yet even discovered if you will be permitted to stay.

Thailand certainly is wonderful, perfect it is not. Remaining in Thailand without employment and valid Work Permit is quite difficult (actaully staying here WITH Work Permit is becoming more and more difficult).

One area you could investigate, is getting a ED Visa (Education), which I think is valid for a full 2 years (probably still have to the same 90 day reporting that we all have to do). To get the ED Visa, you need to enrol into a training program (Language for example), and I think must complete a minimum of 15 hours education per week (but could be month, not sure).

Try searching, I'm sure you will find more accurate info on this, or many of the other Thai related Forums

Good luck, if that's what you want to do. I lef the UK at 23, and am now 44. Thailand wasn't my first resting point, but have always been in this neck of the woods!

UKtom,


Some excellent advice [above] from several here who have faced the same challenges you will face. Before you decide Thailand is your future home I would urge you to make a trip here and see it – the good, the bad and the ugly. Actually, most of it is good but there are some marked differences in living in Thailand and living in England. Suffice to say the biggest for most is the language. Imagine you were an illegal in England, unable to speak, read or write the language and, though you would be legal and have a visa it is very much a totally different world.

Given your age [young thereby disqualifying you for a retirement visa] your options are very limited as has been mentioned. With regard to your air ticket, the carrier you choose will examine your documents and among them will need to see confirmation of a ticket out of Thailand or the air carrier faces a penalty. The easiest way is to buy a ticket to Penang or Kuala Lumpur on Air Asia or one of the other discount carriers. You will have to show the one segment [leaving Thailand] in order to check in / get a boarding pass. Hop on an airplane and make a visit to the LOS 

Serendipity2

thanks a bunch people, it has really put things into a clearer perspective for me and my friend so he was correct in saying we need a ticket out of thai in order to board a flight. he suggested cambodia or something of this nature. I know I am maybe rushing into things here, but the person I am going with has in fact been to thailand recently and I have desired to live there for many months. It is not some magical haven to me, there are many different aspects which are making me head east. For one the english society and way of life to me seems sterile, cold and very materialistic, I know I have never been before but have heard many things from many reliable sources. I have heard how peaceful and welcoming the thai communities are for the majority, which suits my nature totally. Obviously everywhere in the world has good and bad points to it, I am in no delusion there, but I can safely say I am done with what I know call 'home'. It as been an opinion of mine that has been developing over time for me and now feel ready to go. I am also a practicing buddhist, so this also contributes to my reasoning for leaving for thai. Does anyone know information on taking refuge in buddhist temples in thaialnd, i.e the cost and regulations involved..?

My friends plan is to obtain his tefal so he can teach english there, I am sure there are plenty of people trying this so do not think there would be a vast demand for such a skill at the moment, but I could be wrong..

Personally after reading all of you gratified replies, think I may try and apply for the educational visa. I am in the mind set of trying to do everything by the book here, but my friend who recently came back from thai mentioned he has met people who have been there for ages without a visa and just get there passports stamped.. This seems quite risky and immature to head into such a major change in ones life in this manner. Also there is one other problem that I have lol. Basically I have student loans outstanding as i have finished at university, also more recently I got a lump sum of money given to me by mistake for a course I am no longer on. I was going to use this along with money I have saved to leave. What would be the most extreme inplications of me just leaving the UK without considering these finacial matters?

Thanks again for all of your replies, if people could carry on shedding light on this dim situation, I would much appreciate it thanks again tom

hello again all I really do now have a better understanding of the process of obtaining such things as visa etc, but I would like to ask several more things if people would not mind answering them. The first concerns the non-immigrant visa. I myself have a bit of money that will last a certain a mount of time, but it would be foolish to not think ahead and the need for work. My friend as you may have read above is applying for the TEFL, (thanks KhwaamLap ) lol, so I am also considering applying for the non-immigrant 'O' visa. I have read that you need a workers permit to actually work in thaialnd even with this visa. Do you need a workers permit to actually obtain the 'O' non-immigrant visa? I have seen things stating you need a letter from a company stating you can get a place at their company etc. Also adding the fact that you should ideally apply for a visa close to the time you desire to leave creates more pressure. I was considering applying for the 'ED' visa as I am a buddhist and i could train to be a monk there. but this will not bring money which is something essential. If anyone could guide me and my friend in the right direction here, i would be very grateful all the best, tom

OK. First off a work permit is nothing to do with a Visa really. You need a Visa to get a work permit (and the Visa must be an allowable type), but not the other way around. With Hull you can apply for a Non-O on the pretext of looking for work or a non-im B if you have a letter of support (job offer in writing on a company headed human signed letter from a Thai company or Government agency). WIth the O you would probabl;y have to leave and come back with a B once you had the job offer (not sure on this - for me I don't need to as my O is for marriage and it allows work - an O for "looking for work" may be different). Either way at worse this is a trip to a neighbouring country with letter in hand.

The work permit is not for "working", but for "working for stated company" - i.e. they are not transferable and they are not general umbrellas to allow you to work where you want. Any work, even free charity type work requires one legally. Having said that by far the majority of English teacher do not have one (at least one that covers their earnings - even employed one with WP from schools etc tend to do private work whiuch is not covered).

With an "ED" visa, you can not legally work in the kingdom and can not obtain a work permit (you can have both an "ED" and a "B" visa of course, but it would be a lot of running around and more expense) so if you are going to work, then its best to try and get a B at some point if poss.

The Hull COnsultae website has a pack which explains what THEY want quite clearly - google it - there is stacks of infor in PDF format online there.

thank you very much for your reply I understand what they want though and have downloaded many of the files on the hull site. I am just slightly confused with finding work. You said that many people work without a permit but with an 'O' visa. I have heard also many people who even stay in thai without a visa. It seems there are many rules and regulations that are not so strictly followed. I think that here in the Uk most things are done so strictly to regulation, and that is what I am use to. If there are people there teaching english and working with no permit then would it be possible for me to apply for an 'O' visa and apply for such jobs there?

I have heard some crazy stories though, but stories they are lol. My friend who has recently returned from thaialnd said that he knows someone who has a business there without a visa.. So say the man said to my friend he just gives the police whisky at christmas and everything is huncky-dory lol. Obviously I would not intend to go about my move in this manner, but there seems to be a big contrast in what people have said to me.

If you are in the country it is illegal to be without an entry clearance. If you are from a country that allows a waver (almost all English speaking ones and European qualify) then you get a 30 day clearance for tourist pruposes. If you have a visa you will get stamped at immigration on arrival at the aitport anywhere from 30 to 90 das depending on the Visa. If this entry permit expites, then you are illegal.

If you are couaght by the police (and the law says foreigners must carry their passpoerts at all times - and Thais must carry their ID cards) then you can go to jail. If you decide to go home then you will be fines for each day yopu noverstay (up to a maximum of 20,000 Baht). It really is not worth the expense or risk of overstaying the Visa/entry clearance - just go get a new once (extend it with a visa run etc).

Only a work permit allows you to legitimately work here. period. What I said earlier is that many teachers teach without work permits (or ones valid for the work they are doing - i.e. private or part time work). This means they are officially breaking the law. There is always a risk that there is a crack down (and Thailand really goes in for 2/3 day crackdowns on everything from time to time) then some may becaught and deported (once deported they are black marked and can never return - or are blocked for ten years etc).

Its a risk but many do it, with teaching it is somewhat ignored as may schools and agencies (like the police even!) can not afford the paperwork costs or legal requirements to get work permits for native (i.e. foreign) English speakers, bnut the risk is always there (even from a disgruntled Thai teacher who sees some backpacker getting 4 times the money with no degree or possibly even TEFL paperwork, a better air-con staff room (often Thai teachers have their own fan-cooled cramped staff rooms!) and allowed to go home when the lesson is over).

If you work without a WP, then it doesn't matter which Visa you have - because you're illegal anyway. Many teachers without WP's are passing through and only have tourist visas.

As I said some visas exclude the possibility of working at all (you can not get a work permit based on them) these include (for example): Non-Imm "ED", Non_Imm OA (Retirement visa), some types on Non-Imm "O" (they may be stamped 'work disallowed') and all Tourist Visas.

To get a 'B' Visa the embassy/consulate requires a letter as explained earlier from the employer offering a job. The company MUST fit the profile to allow it to hire (many things such as %Thai owned, capitalisation of company, time its been runing, taxes paid, amount of Thais to foreigners employed etc). The work MUST NOT be on the exclusion list (there is a large list of Thai only jobs such as working in a bar or farming for instance!). Once obtained, it does not allow you to work!!!! It allows your employer the right to apply for a workpermit (*a blue book). It is ONLY this that allows you to legally work.

You can own a business without a visa, as long as you do not work in it. For example I own a cafe here, I never work in it as I could never get a WP for it. This is fine - it allows Thais to be employed and earn money and pay taxes (well if they are paid enough - whcih they are not - I once saw a stat that said 80% of Thais never pay any income tax in their lives). The work permit thing is to protect Thai jobs, NOT to stop you earning money - that is why it also applies for unpaid work. There are plenty of gray areas (like working on the internet - or writing a book etc) that are probably best kept to ones self just in case.

When thew school hires a teacher - and applies (send the teacher top apply etc) for the work permit, they have toi complete a ton of paperwork. In that it should show that bthe person is suitably qualified (its down to the school these days to check that degrees are real etc - the MoEmay do it as a check if they feel a school is taking the mickey). If the teacher is not, then they need to justify his/her appointment. I know a guy who has a WP for teaching with no degree, but they waved it because he has two years worth of a degree and the school is in the sticks and can not recruit - the previso is he completes his degree at some point.

The fact that the friend has a B Visa does NOT give her the right to work - the labour department will expect the correct paperwork when her WP is appl;ied for, she may well come unstuck then. Some schools may tell you they have a WP in your name, but do not - so it is vital you ask for it (it is yours, not theirs and they have no legal right to keep it from you!).

The labour departments in different areas can have varying levels of stgrictness and laxness depending on many things (one is the availablility of teachers in the area, another may be their interpretation of the rules - which are often vague). SOme areas will accept a person with no paperwork, others will not.

good luck