[dancingspider]

If I will have paid 24 years into the Spain pension, when I retire, and also get the full UK pension, How do I know ifi would be better taking both pensions or using the UK years to bring my Spanish pension up to the full years requirement?

 

[neilben]

I’m in exactly the same position. Full UK pension with voluntary contributions and 24 years in Spanish system. I just spoke to international pensions centre, who assured me I can get both and I should apply separately. But whether applying for both at same time would improve the Spanish pension is maybe a question for the INSS, although they might just say you have to wait until you reach retirement age here and apply. I will be interested to know if you discover anything…

 

[dancingspider]

But what I think we need to know before we start drawing one pension is whether one pension or two pensions is best financially. The other wild card is obviously the exchange rate, but nothing we can do about that, and it has varied from parity to almost 1.5 times over the years.

 

[redrobin]

After trying unsuccessfully to get an answer from INSS i contacted a lawyer with experience in pension related issues.
They have informed me that it is possible to claim both the UK and state pensions separately but the amount you will receive will depend on individual contribution records for each country.
In my case i have 33 years of pension contributions in the UK and 35 years and 6 months in Spain.

Therefore for me it would make no finacial sense to combine the 2 pensions.

The main point to keep in mind is that when i request my Spanish pension in November this year i have to answer NO to the question "have you worked abroad" .
By doing this INSS will calculate my pension on the contributions i have made in Spain without consulting with the UK pension service.

In january 2025 i will reach retirement age in the UK and then i can claim my UK pension (this has been verified by speaking to the International pension service helpline.

The amount of pension you receive in Spain depends on the number of years worked and the amount that you and your employer have been paying each month during the last 25 years (or the number of years worked in Spain).
I can go into the calculation in another post but the max. you can receive in 2024 is 3175 € before tax.
For the UK its different , the maximum amount you receive would be the same for everybody who have contributed the max. number of years (35 at the moment) , in my case the last quote i have received is 219 pounds/week when i reach retirement age.
Hope this helps to clear up some of your questions.

 

[neilben]

This is good to know and ties in with what I was told 2 days ago by the International Pensions Centre, i.e., that there is no obligation to ask for them together. And you would only do so if your contributions to one of them are below the minimum.

I think you would have to persuade INSS to simulate the effect of the two pensions together around 18 months before the UK pension kicks in. On the online Simulador de Jubilación it says they calculate foreign pensions only when you actually claim the pensions, so sounds unlikely. Maybe they could give an idea of the effect, if any, of the EU equivalent rate combining the full UK pension and 24 years or whatever of the Spanish…

Also, if you ask for them together, you would be deferring the UK pension, which does rise I think by 1% for every 9 weeks deferred, but you would have lost around a year’s UK pension or whatever. So how long to recover that? So all a bit of a gamble.

And a couple of days ago I was talking to someone at the International Pensions Centre who mentioned in passing that even though my UK pension is forecast to kick in from July 2026, it might change.

What I don’t understand is if asking for them together can actually result in less than what you get separately, which I’ve seen implied elsewhere. Surely with enough qualifying years each system would at least pay according to your contributions into it?

As to the exchange rate, in my pension income planning I assume parity, and reduce my Spanish forecast by 20%, given that it is rather tenuously based on what they think it will be in 3 years. That avoids shocks, and anything above that will be a bonus.

 

[1kaipa]

After trying unsuccessfully to get an answer from INSS i contacted a lawyer with experience in pension related issues.
They have informed me that it is possible to claim both the UK and state pensions separately but the amount you will receive will depend on individual contribution records for each country.
In my case i have 33 years of pension contributions in the UK and 35 years and 6 months in Spain.

Therefore for me it would make no finacial sense to combine the 2 pensions.

The main point to keep in mind is that when i request my Spanish pension in November this year i have to answer NO to the question "have you worked abroad" .
By doing this INSS will calculate my pension on the contributions i have made in Spain without consulting with the UK pension service.

In january 2025 i will reach retirement age in the UK and then i can claim my UK pension (this has been verified by speaking to the International pension service helpline.

The amount of pension you receive in Spain depends on the number of years worked and the amount that you and your employer have been paying each month during the last 25 years (or the number of years worked in Spain).
I can go into the calculation in another post but the max. you can receive in 2024 is 3175 € before tax.
For the UK its different , the maximum amount you receive would be the same for everybody who have contributed the max. number of years (35 at the moment) , in my case the last quote i have received is 219 pounds/week when i reach retirement age.
Hope this helps to clear up some of your questions.

Now this is VERY interesting and something I have noticed. When you get your Spanish pension forecast by default it will assume you have ONLY worked in Spain. It actually says that if you have worked abroad you need to visit them to amend their records and I now have a sneaky suspicion that this might effect your Spanish pension ( in a not good way). The very fact that a lawyer told you not to tell them that suggests as much.

 

[1kaipa]

This is good to know and ties in with what I was told 2 days ago by the International Pensions Centre, i.e., that there is no obligation to ask for them together. And you would only do so if your contributions to one of them are below the minimum.

I think you would have to persuade INSS to simulate the effect of the two pensions together around 18 months before the UK pension kicks in. On the online Simulador de Jubilación it says they calculate foreign pensions only when you actually claim the pensions, so sounds unlikely. Maybe they could give an idea of the effect, if any, of the EU equivalent rate combining the full UK pension and 24 years or whatever of the Spanish…

Also, if you ask for them together, you would be deferring the UK pension, which does rise I think by 1% for every 9 weeks deferred, but you would have lost around a year’s UK pension or whatever. So how long to recover that? So all a bit of a gamble.

And a couple of days ago I was talking to someone at the International Pensions Centre who mentioned in passing that even though my UK pension is forecast to kick in from July 2026, it might change.

What I don’t understand is if asking for them together can actually result in less than what you get separately, which I’ve seen implied elsewhere. Surely with enough qualifying years each system would at least pay according to your contributions into it?

As to the exchange rate, in my pension income planning I assume parity, and reduce my Spanish forecast by 20%, given that it is rather tenuously based on what they think it will be in 3 years. That avoids shocks, and anything above that will be a bonus.

I think you have to consider this question about if you have ever worked abroad - which is asked by the INSS to give your pension forecast. Not sure about the advice of saying no!!! Sounds a bit dodgy to me and I would like to know if this means you only get two pensions if you lie ( which would be fraud) . I really think you need to visit INSS.

 

[neilben]

Now this is VERY interesting and something I have noticed. When you get your Spanish pension forecast by default it will assume you have ONLY worked in Spain. It actually says that if you have worked abroad you need to visit them to amend their records and I now have a sneaky suspicion that this might effect your Spanish pension ( in a not good way). The very fact that a lawyer told you not to tell them that suggests as much.

You suspect they might penalise you for your contributions in another country? If that is really how it works, then doesn't that imply not telling them could get you into trouble? Would liek to know what the lawyer in question said about this.

 

[neilben]

This goes back to the question bugging me: can you really have two overlapping pensions (through voluntary contributions)? Can you pay into two national insurance systems at the same time without one somehow reducing the other?
The person I spoke to at the International Pensions Centre told me there was no problem with this, and indeed why would the UK allow us to pay vounatry contributions if that were not the case?
But I’m still left with the doubt as I've just received a letter from the HMRC saying I can buy them and get a full UK pension.

 

[1kaipa]

This goes back to the question bugging me: can you really have two overlapping pensions (through voluntary contributions)? Can you pay into two national insurance systems at the same time without one somehow reducing the other?
The person I spoke to at the International Pensions Centre told me there was no problem with this, and indeed why would the UK allow us to pay vounatry contributions if that were not the case?
But I’m still left with the doubt as I've just received a letter from the HMRC saying I can buy them and get a full UK pension.

I don't think UK care as they see it as you have paid for a UK pension and know nothing about your Spanish one. All I am saying is that another poster has pointed out that Spain requires you to notify them if you have ever worked abroad and they said that you should answer that as No. Now I am just wondering what happens if you tell the truth and say Yes. Does it effect what Spain will pay? I don't know but I do remember that when I look at my pension forecast it tells me that it is formulated on various things ( age, level of contributions, married etc plus it says I have never worked abroad ) it then says that if any of these things are incorrect you need to contact them. So I don't know what happens but the other poster's remarks suggest it would in someway effect your Spanish pension.

 

[neilben]

I agree. I would never give false information. But the poster said he had asked INSS and they didn't know. Bit of a worry if you have you trust a lawyer instead... I have written to INSS through their buzon asking about this but no response yet. Maybe a call or appointment... someone must have the answer to all this.

 

[1kaipa]

I agree. I would never give false information. But the poster said he had asked INSS and they didn't know. Bit of a worry if you have you trust a lawyer instead... I have written to INSS through their buzon asking about this but no response yet. Maybe a call or appointment... someone must have the answer to all this.

The poster said INSS didn't answer not that they didn't know. I don't think INSS will respond to a letter- they rarely do unless they have started the process of communication. You need to visit your local office and actually speak with a funcionario whist they look at your records

 

[Overandout]

I'm asuming that if you answer "yes" to the question of having worked abroad, they will consult the other country (assuming there is an agreement) and calculate the single pension based on combined combinations. Of course, if you already have maximum Spanish pension, what possible effect can the UK contributions have?

More than concerned about answering yes, I woud be more interested to know the lawyer's view of the risks of answering "no" when that is actually false. I suspect that this is an area which falls into an "but everyone does it" type of answer.

 

[neilben]

I'm asuming that if you answer "yes" to the question of having worked abroad, they will consult the other country (assuming there is an agreement) and calculate the single pension based on combined combinations. Of course, if you already have maximum Spanish pension, what possible effect can the UK contributions have?

More than concerned about answering yes, I woud be more interested to know the lawyer's view of the risks of answering "no" when that is actually false. I suspect that this is an area which falls into an "but everyone does it" type of answer.

You have to be honest whatever the consequences. I’m a bit cautious of Spanish lawyers or consultants of any kind. I just consulted someone about inheritance/gift tax to receive money from the UK and he tried to persuade me to just leave it in the UK and say nothing here on the basis that after 4 years they can do nothing. And he was incredulous that I wanted to declare it properly and pay the taxes, which are significant as it’s a lot of money. But I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night, quite apart from the moral implications. So in the case of claiming pensions, best not to conceal anything…

 

[1kaipa]

You have to be honest whatever the consequences. I’m a bit cautious of Spanish lawyers or consultants of any kind. I just consulted someone about inheritance/gift tax to receive money from the UK and he tried to persuade me to just leave it in the UK and say nothing here on the basis that after 4 years they can do nothing. And he was incredulous that I wanted to declare it properly and pay the taxes, which are significant as it’s a lot of money. But I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night, quite apart from the moral implications. So in the case of claiming pensions, best not to conceal anything…

Very true about lawyers. There is a kind of unwritten rule that goes way back that suggests totally honesty with the hacienda isn't necessary because the chances of being caught are low and if you are , you fork out the fine. I have no idea if saying YES means Spain won't pay your Spanish pension if they consider you already have a UK one or that it is simply to help them mix the two pensions together if you haven't reach a full pension in both countries. Only the INSS can tell you.

 

[dancingspider]

Giving misleading or downright false information to tax authorities or any government body is utter lunacy!

 

[Overandout]

I just consulted someone about inheritance/gift tax to receive money from the UK and he tried to persuade me to just leave it in the UK and say nothing here on the basis that after 4 years they can do nothing.

I guess you're not planning on following the advice anyway, but you really might want to check that. I'm pretty sure that this is now incorect.

 

[dancingspider]

Wow, how to make the tax man angry!

I hope your finances are squeezy clean otherwise, neilben!!!

If I was a government tax auditor, knowing you had deliberately defrauded the state of tax due, I would go after you with a vengeance you cannot imagine, until I found something I could hang you with!

 

[neilben]

Dancingspider, your outburst suggests you haven't read or understood my original post.
I think I made it clear I was commenting on advice I had received but have no intention of following it. I told the lawyer I wanted to declare the money properly and pay the tax. And he just looked at me like I was out of my mind.
Just to be clear, I have never evaded tax or hidden assets, and would never do so, either from a legal or moral perspective.

 

[Hammer72]

Hi ,
I would like some information regarding how to claim both the UK and state pensions.
Have seen some useful posts that give examples but none that cover my particular situation , so maybe someone can give some input.
I am 65 years old and have paid 35 years and 2 months contibutions to the Spanish Social Security in order to receive the Spanish pension - in theory i could claim the Spanish pension now but would receive a reduced rate as i do not have the full amount of qualifying years.

I have also continued paying Class 2 contributions to the UK and currently have 32 years of full contributions according to the latest pension forecast i received.
I cannot claim my UK pension until i reach 66 in january 2025.

My question is , should i ask the Spanish authorities to take the years i have contributed in the UK into account when calculating my Spanish pension or would it be more beneficial to claim both pensions seperately?

My understanding is that i have a claim to pensions from Spain as well as the UK.

I have inquired at my local INSS office but nobody could give me a clear answer as they have not come across my particular circumstances before.

Any comments will be much appreciated.
Thanks

Hello,
Many thanks for your post it looks like a subject not just interesting to me but to many others (5K views as I write this). Please do let us know if you get to the bottom of this?

I am particularly interest as when I retire in Spain I will have completed 32 years of contributions here (so not quite the full pension but nearly and I will have to be 67) and I also have a number of years in the uk (something like 12). I have the opportunity of filling the gaps of almost all my missing years in the UK (in April 2025 the deadline for filling some of those years expires). So in my case your question is interesting because I can't decide if it is worth filling the gaps if the Uk years are just added to the Spanish years for one Spanish pension, or if you are better off with many years in both countries.

I see lots of information in Spanish government websites and other advice website but none seem to answer your question clearly. The clearest so far seems to be this from an eu page (I had to remove the link to post this I'm afraid, my post was flagged as spam but it's easy to find) although in every example case study no-one has reached the minimum years in both countries, which is yours and many of the people who are interested in this post's case!

Does anyone have an official source that answers this question?

I have also found non-ofical information which seems to suggest they make two calculations and you receive whichever is highest: 1. adding the years to your Spanish years and calculating your Spanish pension, 2. working out what separate pensions you would receive from each country and adding the sums of both. This Spanish government magazine article from 2018 explains this (again, I had to remove the link to post this I'm afraid, my post was flagged as spam but it's a 2018 article called "Una vida laboral en varios países") and I have seen it in some other websites but nothing 100% oficial and clear. Can anyone answer this definitively and with an official source!

Many thanks!