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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
They keep changing the details, so it's hard to say exactly when and from whom you'll get your social security number and your own carte vitale card. It won't be from the OFII, though, (unless they change it yet again).

They should be able to put you on your husband's carte vitale pretty much right away (though having your OFII vignette will definitely help!) Even as a dependent you should wind up getting a card of your own - though in the meantime you can use his card if you need to see a doctor.

Are you sure you need a ss number to make use of the Pôle d'emploi? You can't actually "register" there are you're not eligible for benefits - but you don't have to register in order to make use of their resources (i.e. job listings, etc.). Normally, you won't get a ss number until you get a job, as it's usually the employer who sends in the paperwork that jump starts the process. They may want you to have your OFII vignette (to make sure you're here legally and have the right to work), but I don't believe they require a ss number unless you're looking to draw benefits.
Cheers,
Bev
Hi everyone, we have found out that as AEs all medical cover and carte vitale issues are dealt with through the RSI and not CPAM office. We called CPAM who sent us back to RSI. RSI told us that the Carte Vitale would be with us in around 6 months but have sent us a declaration stating we are covered along with NI numbers. This document should be presented at any doctor, dentist or hospital where you receive treatment and gives you full health cover in France until your Carte Vitale is delivered.

On another issue....cotisations...we have now received ´Decalration Mensuelle de Chiffre d´affaires´ documents for the last three months which I have completed and declared all income for these months and returned with cheque. What is confusing me is that I was told to pay the ´prestations de services´ tax which is 24.60% as we are a furnished gite rather than the lower ´ventes de merchandises´ tax of 14% which appears to be for unfurnished rentals. I have just seen another expat forum where a gite owner is advising another that he pays the 14% tax on his earnings. Also, I am totally unsure about what I can offset against my earnings such as maintenance of the property, running costs, tax foncieres, etc. I know I should probably employ an accountant but it seems that many AEs manage on their own and if I can receive the correct information I need then hope to do so myself. I take it if I have overpaid taxes or paid the incorrect rate, they should refund me? Or am I just dreaming?? Any sound and accurate advice on this would be much appreciated. Ta!
 

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The rules for those who let out property are a bit more complicated. The AE site has details Portail officiel des auto-entrepreneurs though you may have to dig around a bit to find them. But there is a difference between the treatment of furnished accommodation and unfurnished accommodation. There is, basically, no such thing as an unfurnished gite - since unfurnished residential property is subject to a 3 year lease and lots of specific conditions. If you're renting out unfurnished property, you're considered to be in the "immobiler" (i.e. rental agent) business. Gites are a whole different category.

Also, I am totally unsure about what I can offset against my earnings such as maintenance of the property, running costs, tax foncieres, etc. I know I should probably employ an accountant but it seems that many AEs manage on their own and if I can receive the correct information I need then hope to do so myself.
This one is simple - as an AE you cannot offset your turnover/revenue/earnings with anything at all. That's how the AE system works - basically you have no obligation to maintain accounting records other than to report how much you are paid by your customers.

It's kind of foolish to employ an accountant for an AE, since you can't deduct the fees you pay him from your take, either. (And actually, there's nothing for the accountant to do other than maybe prepare your personal income tax declaration at the end of the year - but that's a personal expense anyhow.)
Cheers,
Bev
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Oh just one more thing, the document that you need while waiting for your Carte Vitale is called ´Attestation D´ouveture des droits´and make sure that you tell them to officially print the names of any dependants who should also be covered under your insurance as they first sent me the Attestation naming only me but when I contacted them, they sent a further one by email naming Rossi as a dependant. Make sure you ask for this document as they do not offer it automatically and until you have it, you keep paying medical bills. Once you have this document, you can send all receipts to be reinbursed. Also, make sure you ask the doctor or hospital for a formal tax receipt if you pay any medical bills as these must be kept and submitted once you receive the RSI Attestation. Hope this was of some help. Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The rules for those who let out property are a bit more complicated. The AE site has details Portail officiel des auto-entrepreneurs though you may have to dig around a bit to find them. But there is a difference between the treatment of furnished accommodation and unfurnished accommodation. There is, basically, no such thing as an unfurnished gite - since unfurnished residential property is subject to a 3 year lease and lots of specific conditions. If you're renting out unfurnished property, you're considered to be in the "immobiler" (i.e. rental agent) business. Gites are a whole different category.



This one is simple - as an AE you cannot offset your turnover/revenue/earnings with anything at all. That's how the AE system works - basically you have no obligation to maintain accounting records other than to report how much you are paid by your customers.

It's kind of foolish to employ an accountant for an AE, since you can't deduct the fees you pay him from your take, either. (And actually, there's nothing for the accountant to do other than maybe prepare your personal income tax declaration at the end of the year - but that's a personal expense anyhow.)
Cheers,
Bev
Thanks Bev. I see. However, what if you are running at a loss or just breaking even on your outgoings? Should you still pay the full tax amount on all your received payments from customers? I heard another AE talking about a 5000 loss being pushed forward and taken into account in the next years declarations. I take it you are not sure about the percentage of tax that a gite owner is liable to pay? Cheers, Ralph
 

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If whoever was talking about carrying a loss forward, then they were NOT an AE. Certainly not with respect to cotisations, which are the 24.6% you're paying each month.

Income taxes are separate (and covered in a separate section of the Questions-réponses on the AE website) and payable at the end of the year (though there is an option you can take to pay toward your eventual income tax each month if you like).

For income taxes, if you are taxed under the microBIC or BNC regime, the tax examiner allots you a flat percentage of "expenses" against your declared revenues, and your income taxes are based on that (along with whatever other income you are declaring).

Take a look at this page from the Service Public: Déclaration d'auto-entrepreneur - Service-public.fr It appears that you may be indeed paying the "wrong" rate for your cotisations. You need to contact the place where you registered your AE and ask to "correct" your registration. You apparently signed up under the "service" category and should have been in the other category - at least according to Service Public.
Cheers,
Bev
 

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I have a sense of déjà vu here, we've had this conversation before
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/france-expat-forum-expats-living-france/234314-carte-vitale-nin-simple.html

As you'll have realised from the gite owners forums, the level of cotisations for gites/chambres d'hotes is very borderline. Either it seems to depend on exactly how you described the activity when you registered and exactly what you provide. Or it may be more a case of the rules not being clear, because most sites quote the guidelines that Bev quoted but the autoentrepreneur guide itself is less clear, see below, and I do think they may be charging you the wrong rate. Definitely you should clarify it with URSSAF asap, before your next declaration is due, and FWIW I always find it best to go in and talk to URSSAF face to face - mine are very helpful.

http://www.lautoentrepreneur.fr/images/9_guide_auto_entrepreneur.pdf


Pour bénéficier du régime fiscal de la micro-entreprise, le chiffre d’affaires annuel ne doit pas
dépasser un certain seuil en 2013 :
81 500 € HT pour les activités suivantes :
• achat/revente : achat de biens matériels pour les revendre en l’état ;
• fabrication de produits à partir de matières premières : ex. boulangerie, couture,
fabrication de bijoux ;
• vente à consommer sur place ou à emporter ;
• prestations d’hébergement : hôtellerie, chambres d’hôte, location de locaux d’habitation
non meublés.

32 600 € HT pour les activités suivantes :
• prestations de services commerciales : ex. vente de produits incorporels (programmes
informatiques) ;
• prestations de services artisanales : ex. travaux immobiliers, réparation de produits
fournis par les clients ;
• location de locaux d’habitation meublés ;
• prestations de services libérales (relevant de la CIPAV) : ex. conseil, traduction…*.

Just to re-iterate what Bev says, there are two things you need to be clear on:
What you are paying is not (mostly) income tax, it's your social contributions i.e. what you are paying for your carte vitale, into your pension pot, etc.

If you have a lot of overheads, auto entrepreneur is NOT the correct régime for you to be on. AE is only a sensible choice if you have average or lower than average overheads. If, after you've established what rate cotisations you have to pay and are paying at the correct rate, you find you're still running at a loss or only just breaking even, then you have a problem and I think you need to either look at your business model or get yourself an an accountant and change régime. AE is totally inflexible and if you make a loss, there is no way of getting it back.
 

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In researching the issue I did stumble onto a page stating that seemed to indicate that there is a difference between a gite rural and a meublée de tourisme - and that a gite rural is considered an activité reglée. Maybe you can make more sense of the page than I could: Gte ou meubl de tourisme - APCE, agence pour la cration d'entreprises, cration d'entreprise, crer sa socit,l'auto-entrepreneur, autoentrepreneur, auto-entrepreneur, auto entrepreneur, lautoentrepreneur, reprendre une entreprise, aides la cration d'en

It's very often these minor differences in which APE you selected for your AE that make all the difference as far as your rates of cotisation.
Cheers,
Bev
 
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