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Buying a holiday home

4880 Views 41 Replies 8 Participants Last post by  Veronica, 
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I am sure that this query has been covered in several posts previously, but after a quick search i cannot seem to find any suitable answers.

I am seriously looking at buying a holiday property in Cyprus (3 bed villa with pool in Paphos / west coast area) for personal use and short periods of rental. I would appreciate any feedback / advice on the following:

- What would be the average price of this type of property?
- Are there bargains / deals to be had?
- Have prices stabilised or still falling?
- What are the average running costs for this sort of property?
- I know a pool is essential, but what are the running costs?
- Is it cost effective to 'shut down' the pool during winter?
- What are the average rental charges for this type of property?

Any general advice, do's and dont's, etc would also be greatly welcomed.

Neil
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Vegaanders said:
As anywhere else you live in the world you have to accept the rules in the country where you in fact are a guest. If anyone a UK citizen should know how it works. I am 100 % sure that you would not agree to change 1 of your stupid UK laws because a group of Cypriots told you that the system is stupid.

I agree with you that the Title Deed and mortgage system is not good and have to be changed

And if I was to hand over that sum of money I would be 100% sure how it will work. If I dont find that out, and its well known, then I have my self to blaim in a way.

And ofc there is crooked people in this business as in any other business, but that is a worldwide phenomena. Believe me I have seen much worse examples during the last 25 years of living abroad. Spain, Greece, The Canary Islands are all good examples of the problem. In fact, one of the biggest svindlers were from UK, John Palmer

The way to not get problems is to prepare yourself. Read, listen to them who has done this before, take references etc. This forum is a good example of where you can get good information

We will soon buy a house in Cyprus. I am not at all afraid getting scammed because I know I have made my homework. It has taken time but it will be worth every cent. Now I just look forward to soon be able to make the last move in my life and start to enjoy the Cyprus way of life

If you have had a bad experience I feel sorry for you as for all others that have problems.

But again, never forget you come as a guest to another culture, a culture that have goods and bads. If you cant accept that and adjust to it then you are in the wrong place
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I have learned the hard way buying without title deeds this is why I am offering my experience to anyone and everyone in saying do not buy in Cyprus at any cost with out title deeds including a property with AX Numbers. ONLY BUY A PROPERTY WITH TITLE DEEDS! Lots of my neighbours in Cyprus would say the same thing. I am not naive to think there are are not other countries that have other problems with buying and selling and of coarse you should do your research before buying. I actually did quite a lot of research and did several visits to the island before committing. I just never realised how bad and how corrupt the government was until years down the line.

The swindlers issue I also agree with and is completely unacceptable in any country. I have seen the holiday homes from hell programme and feel so sorry for that people. I have see the holiday homes from hell show in the UK aswell. The good thing is at least the UK has NHBC which holds builders accountable and the owners know that any major structural issues will be fixed by the builder and if not then buy the NHBC for up to 10 years. Not too mention you get your keys and title deed in your hand when you buy in the UK. As for having to adjust to the Cyprus system, I agree every country has there own culture which is fair enough but I do not and never will agree on the title deeds issue in Cyprus it is completely wrong and corrupt. The simple line is if ANYONE is buying and handing over large amounts of money and life savings then in return they should be receiving there title deeds and keys in there hand on the same day. For all the sins that the UK has and I have bought, sold and rented out property in Scotland at least you get your keys and title deeds in your hands when you hand over your money.
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Vegaanders said:
It must be better to loose 1 paperfile then to loose all in a computer server crash.

I dont defend the system in Cyprus but it is their system. If everything is so horrible why stay here. There is many other places in the world

Many writes about the Cypriots not liking UK and other expats and if all they here is how bad their country is then I can understand them.

I have been fortunate to live in many countries all over the world and the key has always been to adjust to the system, not try force the system to adjust to you.

I dont think that UK would change if the expats tryed to change the UK system.
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Seriously no your wrong it would not be better to lose your whole paper file, are you for real??? It would be better if they had everything on a computer system and had everything backed up and also had a paper file as an additional back up.

I did not say everything is horrible in Cyprus, I said the government officials are corrupt and do not care about the problems going on with the title deeds issue and treat UK people like 2nd class citizens.

I have also been fortunate to travel the world with my occupation. There is a difference between adjusting to people's culture and being treated like a 2nd class citizen from corrupt government officials which is completely unacceptable.

As for the U.K. changing for expats, unfortunately they have and that is the problem there. Too many expats and foreigners coming into the U.K. and claiming benefits while the average U.K. person is supporting them, but hey that's another issue and nothing to do with Cyprus system and corrupt.
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You just said that tomany foreigners coming to UK and claiming benefits. You react on that but then Cypriots must be able to react in the same way. Or..

I think that a majority of the expats coming to Cyprus nowaday is people with a pension, this because of the problem with jobs.
This people all claim benifits like free healthcare. They have not contributed any tax to the Cyprus state. Perhaps this is why some Cypriots dont like the expats coming

Much of this lays in history. Cyprus and its citizens was not very well treated during the period as a British colony. Everyone admits that. It will take time to heal.

But how you can accuse all Cypriot goverment officials to be corrupt. Have you met all? In every country there is bad apples in the basket, also in UK.
I have paid my way through UK customs without getting a reciept more then one time when some document was missing

I agree that the Title Deed problem has to be solved. But again, this is a problem for all buying a new home in Cyprus, regardless if he is Brit or Cypriot, Swede or Russian
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Da Funk said:
Seriously no your wrong it would not be better to lose your whole paper file, are you for real??? It would be better if they had everything on a computer system and had everything backed up and also had a paper file as an additional back up.

I did not say everything is horrible in Cyprus, I said the government officials are corrupt and do not care about the problems going on with the title deeds issue and treat UK people like 2nd class citizens.

I have also been fortunate to travel the world with my occupation. There is a difference between adjusting to people's culture and being treated like a 2nd class citizen from corrupt government officials which is completely unacceptable.

As for the U.K. changing for expats, unfortunately they have and that is the problem there. Too many expats and foreigners coming into the U.K. and claiming benefits while the average U.K. person is supporting them, but hey that's another issue and nothing to do with Cyprus system and corrupt.
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I agree that buying property in Cyprus has it's pitfalls and risks and make no mistake, Cypriots are just as affected as expats. I disagree that it's due to corrupt government officials, although they do exist, it's more due to loopholes in the system, apathy and a real reluctance to prosecute the crooks.
Those developers swindled a lot more natives than expats so they don't really discriminate.

I am a Cypriot, I speak fluent Greek and yet anytime I need to get anything done with any sort of government official is extremely painful. They are inefficient, unmotivated and for the most part are waiting for the day to be over so they can go home. If you land one of those jobs you are hired for life.

It's definitely not an acceptable level of service and for those of us that experienced well run government/civic services and know it can be done, is maddening. Don't feel alone though, Greek Cypriots are treated just as poorly.
And I hate that in many cases you have to take a third party with you to do the paperwork that they get paid to do!
This laid back attitude also has benefits, they are not as quick to repossess your house if you can't make the payments, for example.

Speaking up is totally acceptable, I don't feel it's Cyprus bashing and as a contributing member of the local society you have a right to point out the faults to the status quo. If every expat stayed with the attitude that everything should be accepted as is, the animals on the island would have no voice. Because of expats they have a place to go!

A lot of non natives misjudge Cyprus maybe because of the feeling you are in paradise but it has it's share of bad people just like everywhere else in the world.

When buying property, which as Veronica pointed out people do successfully every day, go with your eyes wide open and armed with as much knowledge as you can! Know the local system and don't assume that it must work the same way as anywhere else. Your life's savings are on the line!

JMHO
We are about to start the very painful process of building a house, I may feel differently then:) if the stress of dealing with the whole lot of them doesn't kill us first!
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It really is good to hear other peoples views and experiences, this can only help others. In these sorts of discussions it is normal to have the 2 extremes, good experience and bad experience. However, it is abundantly clear that it is a case of "buyer beware" when purchasing in Cyprus. I for sure will not purchase without title deeds, without these you do not legally own the property. Maybe if everyone took this stance it might force the government to do something about the situation, afterall it is the Cypriot economy that will suffer in the long term if this does not improve soon.
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cds usa said:
I agree that buying property in Cyprus has it's pitfalls and risks and make no mistake, Cypriots are just as affected as expats. I disagree that it's due to corrupt government officials, although they do exist, it's more due to loopholes in the system, apathy and a real reluctance to prosecute the crooks.
Those developers swindled a lot more natives than expats so they don't really discriminate.

I am a Cypriot, I speak fluent Greek and yet anytime I need to get anything done with any sort of government official is extremely painful. They are inefficient, unmotivated and for the most part are waiting for the day to be over so they can go home. If you land one of those jobs you are hired for life.

It's definitely not an acceptable level of service and for those of us that experienced well run government/civic services and know it can be done, is maddening. Don't feel alone though, Greek Cypriots are treated just as poorly.
And I hate that in many cases you have to take a third party with you to do the paperwork that they get paid to do!
This laid back attitude also has benefits, they are not as quick to repossess your house if you can't make the payments, for example.

Speaking up is totally acceptable, I don't feel it's Cyprus bashing and as a contributing member of the local society you have a right to point out the faults to the status quo. If every expat stayed with the attitude that everything should be accepted as is, the animals on the island would have no voice. Because of expats they have a place to go!

A lot of non natives misjudge Cyprus maybe because of the feeling you are in paradise but it has it's share of bad people just like everywhere else in the world.

When buying property, which as Veronica pointed out people do successfully every day, go with your eyes wide open and armed with as much knowledge as you can! Know the local system and don't assume that it must work the same way as anywhere else. Your life's savings are on the line!

JMHO
We are about to start the very painful process of building a house, I may feel differently then:) if the stress of dealing with the whole lot of them doesn't kill us first!
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You couldn't have worded it better. I agree it is not all corruption but also ineffiency, no motivation and a lack of care and service. Some people on here are taking it personally and think I am attacking the Cyprus as a whole, which I am not. I have met some wonderfull Cypriots. Unfortunately the unpleasant experiences have mostly been with government officials, the banking staff and the developer and it's staff.

I do not live in Cyprus but it is my second home and I have had my property for 7 years now and myself and family visit regularly. If I didn't like it I wouldn't come back. Lots of my neighbours are looking to sell and have had there property on the market for several years now and unfortunately and the accept they will never be able to sell there house until they get there title deeds. This is clearly wrong and although some people keep changing the subject my main point I keep putting across is NO ONE should ever buy in Cyprus without a title deed in place because I gaurentee it will cause stress, disappointment and heartache.
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Even if the title deeds are available, what other 'dangers' are lurking in the process?
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Vegaanders said:
You just said that tomany foreigners coming to UK and claiming benefits. You react on that but then Cypriots must be able to react in the same way. Or..

I think that a majority of the expats coming to Cyprus nowaday is people with a pension, this because of the problem with jobs.
This people all claim benifits like free healthcare. They have not contributed any tax to the Cyprus state. Perhaps this is why some Cypriots dont like the expats coming

Much of this lays in history. Cyprus and its citizens was not very well treated during the period as a British colony. Everyone admits that. It will take time to heal.

But how you can accuse all Cypriot goverment officials to be corrupt. Have you met all? In every country there is bad apples in the basket, also in UK.
I have paid my way through UK customs without getting a reciept more then one time when some document was missing

I agree that the Title Deed problem has to be solved. But again, this is a problem for all buying a new home in Cyprus, regardless if he is Brit or Cypriot, Swede or Russian[/




I agree not all officials are corrupted but there are a hell of a lot that are but they are also inefficient, have no motivation and a lack of care and service. Certainly all of the people I have seen walking about in the Larnaca District Office. You seem to be taking this very personally and think I am attacking the Cyprus as a whole, which I am not. I have met some wonderful Cypriots. Unfortunately the unpleasant experiences have mostly been with government officials, the banking staff and the developer and it's staff.

I can't beleive some of the stuff your coming away with though, you state "Cyprus and its citizens was not very well treated during the period as a British colony" AND??? Does that mean all British people living and visiting the island should suffer for this? The Cyprus economy is hurting yes because there is a recession but mainly because the building trade has dried up. The quicker the government and developers realise they need to start treating people with respect, service, duty of care and offering properties where the consumer gets what they are paying for ie title deed in hand with keys on day of purchase, the sooner more people will start buying and wanting to move to the country. Yes that includes, Brits, Russians any nationality.

As for UK pensioners getting free Cyprus healthcare, are you not aware that ANY citizen in the European Union is entitled to free healthcare where ever the choose to live in any country of the EU? Yes that means Cypriots living in the U.K. The pensioners are actually boosting the economy, they are taking there pensions from the U.K. And investing it in paying council taxes, electricity, shopping etc etc etc. Seriously where are you getting these ideas from???

Another classic line "Perhaps this is why some Cypriots dont like the expats coming" Are you having a laugh, so your saying it's ok for the Cypriots to treat the British people poorly coming to live to or visit Cyprus because there bitter and twisted about Pensioners living there or that it's an ex British colony? You really believe that is acceptable for Cypriots to have that narrow minded attitude towards foriegn people coming to live and visit Cyprus. Pensioners and tourism are actually boosting the economy, along with foreigners purchasing property. I have never heard so much rubbish in my life!

I do not live in Cyprus but it is my second home and I have had my property for 7 years now and myself and family visit regularly. If I didn't like it I wouldn't come back. Lots of my neighbours are looking to sell and have had there property on the market for several years now and unfortunately and the accept they will never be able to sell there house until they get there title deeds. This is clearly wrong and although some people keep changing the subject my main point I keep putting across is NO ONE should ever buy in Cyprus without a title deed in place because I gaurentee it will cause stress, disappointment and heartache.
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Pam n Dave said:
If your thinking of buying a boat then also have a look around the Polis/Latchi area, but stay away from the local developer based in Latchi as they seem to have a few unsatisfied customers.
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Due to all of the bad publicity regarding developers in Cyprus, I am looking for a resale property only. Unfortunately, all developers in Cyprus have been tarnished by the 'rogue traders', even the good ones, of which I am sure there are many.
Again, buyer power will force the construction industry to self regulate as people will steer clear of new developments. It is a buyers market now and will remain so for many years to come.

With regards to the Polis / Latchi area, are prices generally similar to towns around Paphos?

Are there boat sales in the Latchi marina?
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There is the risk of the owner getting a mortgage on a property just as you are buying I think, but I never understood how it works and how you check that the title is free and clear. Here in the states you pay a title company to do a search and they warranty their results.
Maybe Veronica can explain, please?
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kempo23 said:
Even if the title deeds are available, what other 'dangers' are lurking in the process?
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If the title deeds are available there should not be any 'dangers lurking'.

The danger without title deeds is that the developer could still have money owing on the landand if he goes bankrupt the bank has first call on the land. Title deeds will not beissued to the buyer if any money is outstanding on the land and once the deeds are in the buyers name no one else can borrow on it. The only thing you must make sure of is that the seller has not borrowed on it and if they have your lawyer should make sure that is paid before the seller gets a penny from you.
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kempo23 said:
Due to all of the bad publicity regarding developers in Cyprus, I am looking for a resale property only. Unfortunately, all developers in Cyprus have been tarnished by the 'rogue traders', even the good ones, of which I am sure there are many.
Again, buyer power will force the construction industry to self regulate as people will steer clear of new developments. It is a buyers market now and will remain so for many years to come.

With regards to the Polis / Latchi area, are prices generally similar to towns around Paphos?

Are there boat sales in the Latchi marina?
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Prices are generally similar in the Polis/Latchi area but may rise due to the new golf course which is under construction.

There are boats for sale in the Latchi Marina but I don't know your budget so can't really be more helpful.

We picked this area because it's more rural but still reasonably handy for Paphos.
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Veronica said:
If the title deeds are available there should not be any 'dangers lurking'.

The danger without title deeds is that the developer could still have money owing on the landand if he goes bankrupt the bank has first call on the land. Title deeds will not beissued to the buyer if any money is outstanding on the land and once the deeds are in the buyers name no one else can borrow on it. The only thing you must make sure of is that the seller has not borrowed on it and if they have your lawyer should make sure that is paid before the seller gets a penny from you.
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But this is just common sense! It is normal practice for a solicitor to do these types of searches in the UK. Are you saying that this is not done as a matter of course in Cyprus? How can I "make sure that the seller has not borrowed on it"? What are you paying solicitors for if not to do these sorts of checks and be made accountable?

I am getting more concerned!
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Pam n Dave said:
Prices are generally similar in the Polis/Latchi area but may rise due to the new golf course which is under construction.

There are boats for sale in the Latchi Marina but I don't know your budget so can't really be more helpful.

We picked this area because it's more rural but still reasonably handy for Paphos.
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Thanks for the feedback. I will certainly take a look at the area when I visit next month
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kempo23 said:
Even if the title deeds are available, what other 'dangers' are lurking in the process?
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The planning rules are different here so you may not be consulted on any further developments. You need to be wise about what may be built nearby.

Check the rates (known as bins), some areas seem to be able to create rules so that you may pay double what the locals do.

Check the price of water, our is cheap and not currently scheduled to increase. Other areas are predicting a 100% price increase according to the press.

If the property includes community spaces then check the charges and what is included in the fees and if there are any measures to check if the services have been delivered.

Like the UK it's good to look at properties in the winter months if possible to find any areas where damp may penetrate as it tends not to show once dried out, establish where the prevailing wind comes from then look around the window frames and even though there may be double glazing it may not be draught proof.
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kempo23 said:
But this is just common sense! It is normal practice for a solicitor to do these types of searches in the UK. Are you saying that this is not done as a matter of course in Cyprus? How can I "make sure that the seller has not borrowed on it"? What are you paying solicitors for if not to do these sorts of checks and be made accountable?

I am getting more concerned!
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Yes of course it is common sense but in the past some of the lawyers here were very lax with their searches. They are now much more diligent as there have been several law suits against lawyers for failing to do their jobs properly so in fact that problem should not arise now. The lawyer we always recommend to our clients has always done the relevant searches which has resulted in us losing some sales when they found out there were problems but we would rather lose a sale than put someone into a problem. We live here and intend to be around for many years and don't want to have people gunning for us. All of our clients become friends and that is how we want it to stay.
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kempo23 said:
But this is just common sense! It is normal practice for a solicitor to do these types of searches in the UK. Are you saying that this is not done as a matter of course in Cyprus? How can I "make sure that the seller has not borrowed on it"? What are you paying solicitors for if not to do these sorts of checks and be made accountable?

I am getting more concerned!
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There is a lot you would think is common sense in Cyprus but you will find common sense goes straight out the window in Cyprus! Question everything even with your solicitor! Do not take anything for word, everything you do should be in writing! One thing I have found that happens in Cyprus a lot is that they tell you what you want to hear and have a very selective short memory and this can be everything from buying goods, lawyers, developers, agents, bankers, government officials. Trust no one and get everything in writing! Sounds like common sense, but it really does apply in Cyprus!
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Da Funk said:
There is a lot you would think is common sense in Cyprus but you will find common sense goes straight out the window in Cyprus! Question everything even with your solicitor! Do not take anything for word, everything you do should be in writing! One thing I have found that happens in Cyprus a lot is that they tell you what you want to hear and have a very selective short memory and this can be everything from buying goods, lawyers, developers, agents, bankers, government officials. Trust no one and get everything in writing! Sounds like common sense, but it really does apply in Cyprus!
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I totally agree, make sure you get everything in writing. Many people think a promise on a hanshake is OK but too often that means nothing. The more someone tells you they are honourable and you can trust them the more suspicious you should be. Always, always get things in writing.
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I've just seen Veronicas post, you need to choose your lawyer wisely. They are not all the same and it's best to get a recommendation rather than get one from the yellow pages. If someone involved in the sale points you in a direction then ignore it.

Lawyers here don't seem to be accountable, sad but true.

This thread seems to be painting everything black, it isn't, you just need to be very careful as the usual checks and balances don't seem to be in existence here.
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kempo23 said:
Due to all of the bad publicity regarding developers in Cyprus, I am looking for a resale property only. Unfortunately, all developers in Cyprus have been tarnished by the 'rogue traders', even the good ones, of which I am sure there are many.
Again, buyer power will force the construction industry to self regulate as people will steer clear of new developments. It is a buyers market now and will remain so for many years to come.

With regards to the Polis / Latchi area, are prices generally similar to towns around Paphos?

Are there boat sales in the Latchi marina?
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I'll say it again, you need someone you can trust when property buying, who better than Elysianfields?? Veronica and Denis will make sure you have the title deeds and a professional lawyer. I ran my Cypriot lawyer past Veronica before I instructed him and he got the thumbs up.
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