Expat Forum For People Moving Overseas And Living Abroad banner
1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello again,

I'm looking into buying some land to build on.

In an ideal world I'd go for urban zoned land but to keep costs down I'm looking at rural.

Now it is my understanding that so long as the rural land is not either protected/restricted than it can be built on if it is over a certain size. EG: 5,000sqm in Valencia.

Is it this black and white, i have read odd story's about also needing to prove you are a farmer?

The land in particular is over 5,000sqm and is surrounded by other new build property's with pools and out buildings on all sides of the plot. This seems a good indicator but i guess they could all be illegal?

Thanks, Dave.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,456 Posts
Hello again,

I'm looking into buying some land to build on.

In an ideal world I'd go for urban zoned land but to keep costs down I'm looking at rural.

Now it is my understanding that so long as the rural land is not either protected/restricted than it can be built on if it is over a certain size. EG: 5,000sqm in Valencia.

Is it this black and white, i have read odd story's about also needing to prove you are a farmer?

The land in particular is over 5,000sqm and is surrounded by other new build property's with pools and out buildings on all sides of the plot. This seems a good indicator but i guess they could all be illegal?

Thanks, Dave.
Personally I wouldn't go there.
Buying a house in my native tongue in my native land is difficult enough. Buying a house in a language that isn't my own, full of laws that I don't know exist, and in a foreign country that is well known for its "creative" building legislation seems way too risky for me.
But others may have a different opinion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,089 Posts
Hello again,

I'm looking into buying some land to build on.

In an ideal world I'd go for urban zoned land but to keep costs down I'm looking at rural.

Now it is my understanding that so long as the rural land is not either protected/restricted than it can be built on if it is over a certain size. EG: 5,000sqm in Valencia.

Is it this black and white, i have read odd story's about also needing to prove you are a farmer?

The land in particular is over 5,000sqm and is surrounded by other new build property's with pools and out buildings on all sides of the plot. This seems a good indicator but i guess they could all be illegal?

Thanks, Dave.

I could be wrong, and probably am, but I thought it was 10000m2 here in Valencia and 30000m2 in Murcia.


Either way, I would certainly not go this route unless the land already had planning permission or an old 'shack' that could be knocked down and rebuilt. Even then, I would insist on planning permission to do this before parting with any cash.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
You could be right on the size. I know it differs per region. I would certainly make sure on that before i buy.

The issue with planning is the same as the uk, land with planning already is very expensive. I know in the UK unless the land is zoned urban you stand little chance of ever getting planning, i was hoping this is not the case in spain. I'm prepaired to do the work so long as im not wasting my time buying rural land that ill never get planning on.

I plan to reside in the UK and would only be looking at land to have a holiday home. I also work online so any time involved making visits and for getting planning etc is not an issue for me.

I have lived in spain before in my motorhome for many months on multiple visits. Im looking into land simply to give me something to do while i visit the country in the future, so if it takes years to finish while i camp on the land it is not an issue. I'm looking for a long term project.

I just need to clarify that so long as the land is of certain size i can in thorey get permission, albeit i may have to spend time and money going through standard red tape.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22,399 Posts
Doing anything on the cheap is fraught with pitfalls. That is what many British immigrants neglected in their haste to cut corners and save money. Now many of them face the prospect of at the worst seeing their 'cheap' homes demolished or at best having to fork out for connection of essential services.
Our local authority, and I presume all others in Southern Spain at least, are currently at some stage in the drawing up of a local plan -PGOU.
This is a welcome albeit belated development in most cases as far too many rural areas have been blighted with unregulated and often unsightly constructions.
I sat on a Planning Committee in the U.K. and we were zealous in enforcing planning guidelines as well as laws. If only that had been the case in Spain....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
I'm not looking to cut corners or build a ugly eyesore and blight a piece of natural beauty.

I'm simply asking if it is possible to get planning on a certain type of land.

Some people prefer the security urban land provides but i would rather save myself 50k and do the leg work if possible.

There is a difference between cheap and illegal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,976 Posts
Hello again,

I'm looking into buying some land to build on.

In an ideal world I'd go for urban zoned land but to keep costs down I'm looking at rural.

Now it is my understanding that so long as the rural land is not either protected/restricted than it can be built on if it is over a certain size. EG: 5,000sqm in Valencia.

Is it this black and white, i have read odd story's about also needing to prove you are a farmer?

The land in particular is over 5,000sqm and is surrounded by other new build property's with pools and out buildings on all sides of the plot. This seems a good indicator but i guess they could all be illegal?

Thanks, Dave.
There's some information here, which I expect you have seen:

1. Rustic (rural) plots (suelo rustico)
The rural land law governs the building rules of rural sites. (LEY 10/2004, de 9 de diciembre, de la Generalitat, del Suelo No Urbanizable.)

Some rural land is protected, all plots fall under one of the two following criteria:

Suelo no urbanizable protegido. This is special, protected land which cannot be developed for residential homes.
Suelo no urbanizable común. This category has no special protection and can be developed for residential houses for private use.
The development rights and restrictions of a rural plot in a común:

Plot size: minimum 10,000m2
Maximum building size: 2% of the plot size
Floors: 2
Height: 7m.
For example: with a 12,000m2 plot you can build a villa with 240m2 in the ground floor and 240m2 in the first floor.

Special Restrictions: All rustic plots have aesthetic restrictions with each planning zone having different regulations. Normally you have to build a typical regional-style building. For example you would not be given permission to build an Ibicenco (Ibiza-style) house in Valencia.
Finding a good local architect who knows all the legal ins and outs is the key, I guess. Good luck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Yes, thank you, i have read that website. It seems that same info is common on the net, just wanted to clarify it was indeed correct and upto date.

Also there is the issue of needing to prove you will farm the land around the new build. If that is even true at all...

I guess the next step is to contact a professional.

Would your knowledgeable people here suggest a solicitor or architect would be better suited on land/planning law?

Thanks for all the advice thus far.
Dave.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
412 Posts
Urban zoned land

I doesn't seem any problem to get the designation of land altered (usually about 6 months after you have bough it) if you are a local politician. I'd find one of those - if of course they're not in prison awaiting trial.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
167 Posts
I have gone through this process, here in Mallorca. My advice would be... First and foremost, find a good legal adviser, one who speaks English well and understands "ALL" of the building regulations. Second, find a good architect, again one who speaks good English. Third, plan, plan, plan and plan again.

At 15,000 square meters I was well withing the building limits but still was governed by how big I could build, as a percentage of the overall size of the land.

I don't know if all areas are the same but, be careful. My building permissions were restricted to 2 years but there was an extension available (usually only one) if a certain amount of the build was completed withing the initial 2 year period.

I eventually sold the land, with building permissions, so can't confirm anything beyond what I personally know.

The architects fees ware based on a percentage of the build, so be very careful of this one.

On another project that I recently finished, I found that a local "Project manager" was invaluable. Again, beware that the fees are usually a percentage of the total build costs but you can make a WRITTEN agreement as to an agreed fee structure. Having him on board helped in many ways.

This is my own experiences and I have no idea if they reflect any of the regulations where you are thinking to build. So, even though it might sound like I am trying to teach you how to suck eggs, check everything and get everything in writing.

Good luck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,089 Posts
Yes, thank you, i have read that website. It seems that same info is common on the net, just wanted to clarify it was indeed correct and upto date.

Also there is the issue of needing to prove you will farm the land around the new build. If that is even true at all...

I guess the next step is to contact a professional.

Would your knowledgeable people here suggest a solicitor or architect would be better suited on land/planning law?

Thanks for all the advice thus far.
Dave.
You really need to get an architect local to the village where you intend to buy. For example, we live in Ontinyent so I found an architect from the town/village who is well known/connected with the town hall. He has always managed to steer me in the best direction:eyebrows:


Your biggest issue is going to be services! If you go for a piece of land where there has never been a house with services, then assume that you will NEVER get them! I know of someone who has been trying to get electricity for the last 8 years. He has a price for the work from Iberdrola and, along with his 20 neighbours, has found the money to pay for all the necessary infrastructure - Iberdrola still find reasons not to lay on the supply.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I have gone through this process, here in Mallorca. My advice would be... First and foremost, find a good legal adviser, one who speaks English well and understands "ALL" of the building regulations. Second, find a good architect, again one who speaks good English. Third, plan, plan, plan and plan again.

At 15,000 square meters I was well withing the building limits but still was governed by how big I could build, as a percentage of the overall size of the land.

I don't know if all areas are the same but, be careful. My building permissions were restricted to 2 years but there was an extension available (usually only one) if a certain amount of the build was completed withing the initial 2 year period.

I eventually sold the land, with building permissions, so can't confirm anything beyond what I personally know.

The architects fees ware based on a percentage of the build, so be very careful of this one.

On another project that I recently finished, I found that a local "Project manager" was invaluable. Again, beware that the fees are usually a percentage of the total build costs but you can make a WRITTEN agreement as to an agreed fee structure. Having him on board helped in many ways.

This is my own experiences and I have no idea if they reflect any of the regulations where you are thinking to build. So, even though it might sound like I am trying to teach you how to suck eggs, check everything and get everything in writing.

Good luck
Thank you for the information. Would you be kind enough to help me with these two questions.

#1 - What status was the land. Rustic or urban etc?

#2 - How hard was it to sell the land? I plan to see my project through but i need to consider an exit strategy if i never do anything with it. I dont want to be holding onto it for years if i no longer want it for whatever reason.

Thanks again.
Dave.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
You really need to get an architect local to the village where you intend to buy. For example, we live in Ontinyent so I found an architect from the town/village who is well known/connected with the town hall. He has always managed to steer me in the best direction:eyebrows:


Your biggest issue is going to be services! If you go for a piece of land where there has never been a house with services, then assume that you will NEVER get them! I know of someone who has been trying to get electricity for the last 8 years. He has a price for the work from Iberdrola and, along with his 20 neighbours, has found the money to pay for all the necessary infrastructure - Iberdrola still find reasons not to lay on the supply.
Thanks for the help. I plan to buy land with water connected. Elec I plan to use solar. This should avoid any hidden problems at the end of the project?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
167 Posts
Thank you for the information. Would you be kind enough to help me with these two questions.

#1 - What status was the land. Rustic or urban etc?

#2 - How hard was it to sell the land? I plan to see my project through but i need to consider an exit strategy if i never do anything with it. I dont want to be holding onto it for years if i no longer want it for whatever reason.

Thanks again.
Dave.
Hi,

The land was rustica but was just outside the urban area and we (9 land owners) had electricity installed. Water was from an existing well and sewerage was via a depuradora (a hole in the ground).

Selling wasn't a problem. In fact I wasn't really trying to sell it. I made a plastic board and put "For Sale" (in English, Spanish and German) on it, with my phone number. Mainly to get an idea of the interest in it. Within a month, a local guy who had just sold his house to Nadal, phoned and asked how much. I quickly added a bit to my original calculations and he eventually paid the asking price. I wish I had said more after that.

Whether I was in the right place at the right time, or not, I can't say. So I let it go and moved on to other projects.

I guess that a thorough check on land prices, with and without permissions, is a must. Although permissions alone are very good selling points, the style of house is also important. I went for the maximum size possible, with the idea that anyone could get away with building a smaller project nut would have problems building bigger.

All of this was in Mallorca so you will need to confirm the situation is the same or similar, wherever you plan to buy.

Hope some of this helps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,089 Posts
A little known fact is that in Spain (and maybe elsewhere, I don't know), the architect is also the project manager.

That is, their fees cover the following;
  • Submission of all plans to town hall for approval
  • Submission of plans to college of architects
  • Obtaining all necessary licences
  • Checking progress of build and getting builders to fix problems
  • Signing off on stage payments - it's him that determines when a stage is complete, not the builder
  • Final signing off of development
  • Obtaining completion certificate from town hall

What he doesn't do, which a PM might, is the hiring of trades and purchasing of materials. However, a good builder should be able to quote for the complete job including the 'subbing out' of any specialist jobs (elec, plumbing etc.).


I've done this a few times and a good architect is worth their weight in gold.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top