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Discussion Starter #1
Some of you may want to comment on this
Overseas education: British kids experience education problems in Spain - Analysis - TES Connect

And whilst we're on the subject of education...
I've seen lots of factual stuff on other forums, but what I haven't seen is a wide spectrum of more subjective views on the types of education available here, comparisons to the UK, advatages and disadvantages etc. Just a lot of different peoples' views and experiences together in one thread. Any contributions to be made??
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Some of you may want to comment on this
Overseas education: British kids experience education problems in Spain - Analysis - TES Connect

And whilst we're on the subject of education...
I've seen lots of factual stuff on other forums, but what I haven't seen is a wide spectrum of more subjective views on the types of education available here, comparisons to the UK, advatages and disadvantages etc. Just a lot of different peoples' views and experiences together in one thread. Any contributions to be made??
OOPs, sorry, maybe this wasn't clear.
What i haven't seen is lot of different peoples' views and experiences together in one thread, and that's what I would be interested to see.
 

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Well this is my opinion of the Spanish education system based on my daughters 6 month trial at a state school.

The teachers were strict but friendly which I liked. The Spanish pupils were fine, the english pupils there were in the main not intergrating, were not academic, not interested in learning anything and were simply there cos the law states they have to go to school (altho it would be interesting to know what their attendance records were like!!). As a result the school tried to put on extra Spanish lessons and extra homework to help, but the english kids didnt bother and I suspect their parents could or wouldnt help them because of a variety of reasons!!. My daughter didnt really get on with the Spanish cos they didnt like the english kids and the english kids werent really her type! She did make friends with a Spànish bilingual girl who was sweet, but unfortunately hanging around with a "guiri" wasnt the done thing.

I would conclude that there alot of British families who move out here without giving their childrens schooling much thought and dont take it seriously. Its fine when they're tiny and can start without prejudice and open to learning, but as they get older they will fall into the "tribal" them and us. It may not be a violent war, but its an undercurrent. I dont blame the Spanish kids or the education system, I think its cos there are too many British in these schools and they herd together, its actually better if there are only one or two in a school, then they're more of a novelty and not a "pack". Whats really needed in my opinion are some State British schools, where they are taught the Spanish curriculum and gradually learn the spanish language.

Jo xxx
 

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Well this is my opinion of the Spanish education system based on my daughters 6 month trial at a state school.

The teachers were strict but friendly which I liked. The Spanish pupils were fine, the english pupils there were in the main not intergrating, were not academic, not interested in learning anything and were simply there cos the law states they have to go to school (altho it would be interesting to know what their attendance records were like!!). As a result the school tried to put on extra Spanish lessons and extra homework to help, but the english kids didnt bother and I suspect their parents could or wouldnt help them because of a variety of reasons!!. My daughter didnt really get on with the Spanish cos they didnt like the english kids and the english kids werent really her type! She did make friends with a Spànish bilingual girl who was sweet, but unfortunately hanging around with a "guiri" wasnt the done thing.

I would conclude that there alot of British families who move out here without giving their childrens schooling much thought and dont take it seriously. Its fine when they're tiny and can start without prejudice and open to learning, but as they get older they will fall into the "tribal" them and us. It may not be a violent war, but its an undercurrent. I dont blame the Spanish kids or the education system, I think its cos there are too many British in these schools and they herd together, its actually better if there are only one or two in a school, then they're more of a novelty and not a "pack". Whats really needed in my opinion are some State British schools, where they are taught the Spanish curriculum and gradually learn the spanish language.

Jo xxx
I have no first hand experience of this given that my kids finished their education in the UK ... But I would suggest that part of the problem with integration for the older kids is compounded by the fact that their parents dont speak or write Spanish either - so with the best will in the World on the part of the schools in giving additional homework and extra Spanish lessons - if the kids parents cant sit down and help them with it, or encourage them to work at it (given that they arent learning themselves!) theres little hope for the kids to crack on with it.

Sue x
 

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I have no first hand experience of this given that my kids finished their education in the UK ... But I would suggest that part of the problem with integration for the older kids is compounded by the fact that their parents dont speak or write Spanish either - so with the best will in the World on the part of the schools in giving additional homework and extra Spanish lessons - if the kids parents cant sit down and help them with it, or encourage them to work at it (given that they arent learning themselves!) theres little hope for the kids to crack on with it.

Sue x
Yes!! I think parent interest is also an issue in some areas. I dont know, but I'm sure there are a lot of parents who come over here for the relaxing lifestyle who send their kids to school without a care or a thought of how they're getting on. In fact I'm sure for some its actually a nuisance to have to get up in the mornings to get their children there on time and possibly dont bother half the time!!

Jo xxxx
 

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In fact I'm sure for some its actually a nuisance to have to get up in the mornings to get their children there on time and possibly dont bother half the time!!

Jo xxxx
Exactly! 52% truancy in the summer term at my local school ..... usually from the expat kids and specifically the nuisance ones so the teachers would "hacer el sueco" (turn a blind eye) to it.

As I have noted many times, when a schools' inspector was assigned to Torrevieja he was quoted in Información "What crime have I committed to merit Torrevieja?"
 

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Some of you may want to comment on this
Overseas education: British kids experience education problems in Spain - Analysis - TES Connect

And whilst we're on the subject of education...
I've seen lots of factual stuff on other forums, but what I haven't seen is a wide spectrum of more subjective views on the types of education available here, comparisons to the UK, advatages and disadvantages etc. Just a lot of different peoples' views and experiences together in one thread. Any contributions to be made??
interesting report - backs up a lot of what I've been saying over the past few years
 

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OOPs, sorry, maybe this wasn't clear.
What i haven't seen is lot of different peoples' views and experiences together in one thread, and that's what I would be interested to see.
I will write a long reply later


right now I'm off to watch fama a bailar!! in spanish:p



I'm still waiting for a drool smiley;)
 

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Was that you on the comments section, Xab?? So true, so true......:)
yes it was me:)

here's what I said for anyone who doesn't want to click the link again

My children are in state education on the Costa Blanca, not Benidorm - but there are a lot of ex-pats here too. They were 4 & 7 when they started in Spanish School. They weren't put back their first year & have never been held back, either. The older one finishes in the top few every year & the younger one gets good grades too, even though dyslexic. In fact she receives one to one help with this.

My older child (13 now ) chose to move into the Valencian line when she started ESO because there would be less foreigners in the class.

Unfortunately some pepole do come over here with teens & put them into state school. Stupid in my opinion. They have little or no chance of learning the language well enough to graduate at 16. These are the kids who skip school & disrupt classes when they do go in.

My children are truly tri-lingual (counting valenciano), but there are indeed kids we know who have been in the system longer than mine who still don't really speak spanish & get held back. The parents of these kids have never learned spanish, take the kids back to the UK in the hols & sometimes in term time too, watch english tele etc. We don't go back to the UK, I speak spanish & understand valenciano, we have spanish tele - ......................... draw your own conclusions.
so that's what I think about state education

as for 'International'......................

My two were in private International school the first year we were here. I still can't decide whether or not it was a complete waste of money & a year! It did give them a bit of a psychological cushion the first year, but educationally it really was a waste of time & money.

That's not to say all International schools are like that, though from reading on various forums I suspect they are in the majority:( A lot of Brits here just don't realise that just because you pay for it, it isn't necessarily better. I'd say the school they were at provided a barely adequate 'english state' education.

Given the choice & an endless supply of money I would love my kids to go to a truly bilingual school - the only ones I know of are fee-paying & beyond our pocket.

For newly-arrived older kids I reckon you have no choice but International/British- it's just downright cruel to put teens into a school where they don't speak the language & have little chance of learning it quickly enough to graduate. You could be completely ruining a young life. Some kids manage - but they are a very small minority.

It is also true that as parents we need to be involved no matter where our kids go to school, and if they are in Spanish state school it means we need to learn the language too.
 

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Exactly! 52% truancy in the summer term at my local school ..... usually from the expat kids and specifically the nuisance ones so the teachers would "hacer el sueco" (turn a blind eye) to it.

As I have noted many times, when a schools' inspector was assigned to Torrevieja he was quoted in Información "What crime have I committed to merit Torrevieja?"


Hi Steve,

Yes, I remember you saying that before on another thread re the appalling education levels at certain schools in the South. Doesn't seem as if there's been any improvement, does there??:rolleyes:

Hi PW - well, I'm afraid to say that it's not a surprise at all......but don't feel as if I have the right to comment too much on it as don't seem to have that problem where we are.;) By the way, any issues in Madrid/Barcelona - as there must be some larger pockets of expats in those areas (or maybe they're all in fancy private schools??!!;)).

xxx
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Well this is my opinion of the Spanish education system based on my daughters 6 month trial at a state school.

The teachers were strict but friendly which I liked. The Spanish pupils were fine, the english pupils there were in the main not intergrating, were not academic, not interested in learning anything and were simply there cos the law states they have to go to school (altho it would be interesting to know what their attendance records were like!!). As a result the school tried to put on extra Spanish lessons and extra homework to help, but the english kids didnt bother and I suspect their parents could or wouldnt help them because of a variety of reasons!!. My daughter didnt really get on with the Spanish cos they didnt like the english kids and the english kids werent really her type! She did make friends with a Spànish bilingual girl who was sweet, but unfortunately hanging around with a "guiri" wasnt the done thing.

I would conclude that there alot of British families who move out here without giving their childrens schooling much thought and dont take it seriously. Its fine when they're tiny and can start without prejudice and open to learning, but as they get older they will fall into the "tribal" them and us. It may not be a violent war, but its an undercurrent. I dont blame the Spanish kids or the education system, I think its cos there are too many British in these schools and they herd together, its actually better if there are only one or two in a school, then they're more of a novelty and not a "pack". Whats really needed in my opinion are some State British schools, where they are taught the Spanish curriculum and gradually learn the spanish language.

Jo xxx
Thanks for kicking this off.
I was surprised - at first at British children grouping together and failing at school. After I'd thought about it a bit it wasn't so much of a surprise.
My daughter doesn't encounter these problems because she's Spanish and there aren't any English speakers at her school. There are plenty of South Americans (Colombians abd Ecuadorians mainly) and although they have the advantage of speaking the same language their school curriculum doesn't match the Spanish one well and they often end up repeating a year. There are also Morrocans, Bulgarians and others. I don't know if they tend to band together or not, I presume so because there's more of a language problem, (haven't heard of any "problems tho) but the south Americans in general mix in well (although in the past ,5 or more years ago, there were problems of gangs).
I think Jo and others are right that the attitude of the parents has a huge influence. When I go to the library here there are always muslim children taking out books, none of them are with their parents, but I presume their parents encourage them to go(???)
In Madrid they're just starting to have the problems that the UK encountered years ago of having more immigrant children than Spanish children in some areas and I can't see that they have the resources and they certainly don't have the training to deal with it. Given the scenario the Spanish with enough money are sending their kids to concertados or privates as quick as possible and the public system is getting more and more marginalised.
 

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Thanks for kicking this off.
I was surprised - at first at British children grouping together and failing at school. After I'd thought about it a bit it wasn't so much of a surprise.
My daughter doesn't encounter these problems because she's Spanish and there aren't any English speakers at her school. There are plenty of South Americans (Colombians abd Ecuadorians mainly) and although they have the advantage of speaking the same language their school curriculum doesn't match the Spanish one well and they often end up repeating a year. There are also Morrocans, Bulgarians and others. I don't know if they tend to band together or not, I presume so because there's more of a language problem, (haven't heard of any "problems tho) but the south Americans in general mix in well (although in the past ,5 or more years ago, there were problems of gangs).
I think Jo and others are right that the attitude of the parents has a huge influence. When I go to the library here there are always muslim children taking out books, none of them are with their parents, but I presume their parents encourage them to go(???)
In Madrid they're just starting to have the problems that the UK encountered years ago of having more immigrant children than Spanish children in some areas and I can't see that they have the resources and they certainly don't have the training to deal with it. Given the scenario the Spanish with enough money are sending their kids to concertados or privates as quick as possible and the public system is getting more and more marginalised.
Libraries..........

my two take books out from the local library - to read for pleasure - often the books haven't been taken out for more than a few years!

I asked the librarian & he said hardly anyone takes books out around here - of any nationality

often my 2 are the only kids with books out
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Libraries..........

my two take books out from the local library - to read for pleasure - often the books haven't been taken out for more than a few years!

I asked the librarian & he said hardly anyone takes books out around here - of any nationality

often my 2 are the only kids with books out
Oh no, not the case here. The library is packed in the evenings, and not just students studying. Mostly children getting books out. And the library's not very good either!
 

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(PW says : There are plenty of South Americans (Colombians abd Ecuadorians mainly) and although they have the advantage of speaking the same language their school curriculum doesn't match the Spanish one well and they often end up repeating a year.)

Yes, absolutely true here as well...my twins have just started first year of ESO and they have children who have often repeated throughout now in their class. Bearing in mind my twins are 11 - they have two boys now in their class of 15 & 14and a girl of 14. One from Uruguay, one from a "gitano" family and the other is just, well, a bit of a problem with bunking off school and causing general trouble. We are starting to hear of a few problems now with those older boys making "comments" to the younger girls in the class. You can imagine, I'm sure. Just their age I know, but I think the school has started to take it seriously and keep on top of things, by calling their parents, etc as apparently it's gotten a bit out of hand in the past.
 

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Hi Steve,

Yes, I remember you saying that before on another thread re the appalling education levels at certain schools in the South. Doesn't seem as if there's been any improvement, does there??:rolleyes:

Hi PW - well, I'm afraid to say that it's not a surprise at all......but don't feel as if I have the right to comment too much on it as don't seem to have that problem where we are.;) By the way, any issues in Madrid/Barcelona - as there must be some larger pockets of expats in those areas (or maybe they're all in fancy private schools??!!;)).

xxx
Hey Tallulah,
But are you happy with the schooling your children are getting in state school primary? Do you think the children are taught in a different way to the way they would be in the UK?

I remember for example that I just couldn't get over the fact that the children were never given paints. I remembered from my childhood having painting afternoons every week! It was considered a fundamental part of the curriculum. Years later I trained as a middle school teacher and there were the paints again. Came to Spain and not a paint pot in sight!!:eek::confused2:
 

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Hey Tallulah,
But are you happy with the schooling your children are getting in state school primary? Do you think the children are taught in a different way to the way they would be in the UK?

I remember for example that I just couldn't get over the fact that the children were never given paints. I remembered from my childhood having painting afternoons every week! It was considered a fundamental part of the curriculum. Years later I trained as a middle school teacher and there were the paints again. Came to Spain and not a paint pot in sight!!:eek::confused2:
Well, PW, I have to say that so far I'm very happy (and of course a very proud mummy as well!) in the education they're receiving. They've never repeated and have come in the top tier of results in the class as well - I guess just adding proof to what's been said about kids coming over at a younger age, with little or no expat presence. The materials list we have to buy is crazy. They're only just getting their "responsible" heads on and that we refuse to replace things every bloody week if they lose stuff because they're not looking after it properly! And don't get me (and probably Anles too!) started on Feijoo here in the Xunta. What they're doing now with Plastica in ESO is more technical drawing and actually exploring art properly - instead of just colouring in, or making up models. The maths is great - I would say it is a more advanced level here. Shame about the English in Primaria - but there seems to be a bit of an improvement here in ESO - even with their teacher now agreeing to give them more advanced material to work with. In Primaria they would often correct the teacher - which was rather embarrassing! I would say they are disciplined here very well - and there appears to be good communication between the teachers/parents. The Director is a very approachable and understanding man as well.

xx
 

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(PW says : There are plenty of South Americans (Colombians abd Ecuadorians mainly) and although they have the advantage of speaking the same language their school curriculum doesn't match the Spanish one well and they often end up repeating a year.)

Yes, absolutely true here as well...my twins have just started first year of ESO and they have children who have often repeated throughout now in their class. Bearing in mind my twins are 11 - they have two boys now in their class of 15 & 14and a girl of 14. One from Uruguay, one from a "gitano" family and the other is just, well, a bit of a problem with bunking off school and causing general trouble. We are starting to hear of a few problems now with those older boys making "comments" to the younger girls in the class. You can imagine, I'm sure. Just their age I know, but I think the school has started to take it seriously and keep on top of things, by calling their parents, etc as apparently it's gotten a bit out of hand in the past.
we get an attendance report through the post every couple of weeks, which we have to sign & return

it's not perfect - dd1 was marked 'absent without permission' from one class when the entire year was on a school trip!
 

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and speaking of parental involvement..........


I'm off to hear dd2 read - in english tonight

spanish tomorrow
 
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