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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi folks!

I am here yet again. Perhaps some of the seniors can help.

Brief backstory. Me and my girlfriend met each other while studying overseas (3rd country). I am from Europe, she is from Asia. We have been together for 1.5 years. We studied together and lived at the university dorm's and hence our only real shared evidence are our trips (Australia, China, Malaysia, and I visited her country twice and met her family), pictures and chat logs.

I have recently relocated to Australia as a PR and would like to bring her here. However, due to our circumstances we have very little evidence of the genuinity of our relationship. We didn't live together de jure, have no joint bank accounts and let alone witnesses from Australia.

So, I have thought about bringing her here on a tourist visa and apply before the visa expires for partner visa. Now I know that our current evidence is meager, but would it possible to use the time on Tourist Visa and Bridging Visa to collect further evidence. Living in Australia would provide ample opportunities for that. So, my question is would it work? Do the case officers automatically reject applications, or would we be given a chance to provide further information later on, i.e. once we have stayed in Australia together for a while?

Cheers for your insight, mates!
 

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Hi folks!

I am here yet again. Perhaps some of the seniors can help.

Brief backstory. Me and my girlfriend met each other while studying overseas (3rd country). I am from Europe, she is from Asia. We have been together for 1.5 years. We studied together and lived at the university dorm's and hence our only real shared evidence are our trips (Australia, China, Malaysia, and I visited her country twice and met her family), pictures and chat logs.

I have recently relocated to Australia as a PR and would like to bring her here. However, due to our circumstances we have very little evidence of the genuinity of our relationship. We didn't live together de jure, have no joint bank accounts and let alone witnesses from Australia.

So, I have thought about bringing her here on a tourist visa and apply before the visa expires for partner visa. Now I know that our current evidence is meager, but would it possible to use the time on Tourist Visa and Bridging Visa to collect further evidence. Living in Australia would provide ample opportunities for that. So, my question is would it work? Do the case officers automatically reject applications, or would we be given a chance to provide further information later on, i.e. once we have stayed in Australia together for a while?

Cheers for your insight, mates!
Proving a de-facto relationship is often difficult at times. Look at the following to get an idea:

1. Your Docs: Partner (Provisional) visa (subclass 309) and Partner (Migrant) visa (subclass 100)
2. Partner's docs: Applicant documents
3. Proof of relationship: Proof that your relationship is genuine and continuing, Documents that prove this relationship
4. Statutory declaration: http://www.border.gov.au/Forms/Documents/888.pdf

Since you are not living together, proving joint financial and household responsibilities wont be possible. However, the DIBP states that you can provide other documents which shows your relationship was genuine, was known to any third-party who can provide a statutory declaration (no necessarily an Aus resident), or any documents which show your commitment to each other. Please read the above links for details. If you feel you can prove your case to the Case Officer, it should not be an issue. Also, the CO wont straightaway reject your application if you dont have required documents; you may be requested to provide further evidences, or, interview you.

Coming to the Visitor Visa question, as far as I know, the Visitor Visa comes with a "no further stay" condition imposed on it. Having this condition means she cannot apply for another substantive Australian Visa while in Australia. He will have to leave the country to apply for the Partner Visa; which wont serve the purpose. I would suggest you to look for other Visa options which do not have this condition imposed on it, if you really intend her to get her before applying for the the Partner Visa.

Having said so, applying for the Partner Visa from overseas should not be that big a deal; please consult a registered MARA agent if you require any further professional advice.
 

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Proving a de-facto relationship is often difficult at times. Look at the following to get an idea:

1. Your Docs: Partner (Provisional) visa (subclass 309) and Partner (Migrant) visa (subclass 100)
2. Partner's docs: Applicant documents
3. Proof of relationship: Proof that your relationship is genuine and continuing, Documents that prove this relationship
4. Statutory declaration: http://www.border.gov.au/Forms/Documents/888.pdf

Since you are not living together, proving joint financial and household responsibilities wont be possible. However, the DIBP states that you can provide other documents which shows your relationship was genuine, was known to any third-party who can provide a statutory declaration (no necessarily an Aus resident), or any documents which show your commitment to each other. Please read the above links for details. If you feel you can prove your case to the Case Officer, it should not be an issue. Also, the CO wont straightaway reject your application if you dont have required documents; you may be requested to provide further evidences, or, interview you.

Coming to the Visitor Visa question, as far as I know, the Visitor Visa comes with a "no further stay" condition imposed on it. Having this condition means she cannot apply for another substantive Australian Visa while in Australia. He will have to leave the country to apply for the Partner Visa; which wont serve the purpose. I would suggest you to look for other Visa options which do not have this condition imposed on it, if you really intend her to get her before applying for the the Partner Visa.

Having said so, applying for the Partner Visa from overseas should not be that big a deal; please consult a registered MARA agent if you require any further professional advice.
I suspect in a situation like this, proving to DIBP's satisfaction that a defacto relationship existed might be very difficult, and DIBP may not find that such a relationship existed, but instead that the couple were and are simply boyfriend and girlfriend.

https://www.border.gov.au/about/corporate/information/fact-sheets/35relationship
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks, guys. Kaju's response scares me a bit. Our relationship is very real. This makes me wonder how do two non-Australians from different countries, or any foreign people for matter are able to prove that they are genuine? We did apply for her Tourist Visa a year ago and I wrote a supporting letter that she is my girlfriend and in the long term I intend to bring her to Australia with me.

I just don't know what to do. We are young and met in a foreign country and just didn't manage to establish all these formal things... And now we are in a long distance relationship and i just want to bring her over. Anyone?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
About the "no further stay" condition. Her previous visa didn't come with one, iirc. Also, I have heard stories that people have called the migration' office, explained their story and it has been removed. :eek: No?
 

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About the "no further stay" condition. Her previous visa didn't come with one, iirc. Also, I have heard stories that people have called the migration' office, explained their story and it has been removed. :eek: No?


As far as I know it cannot be removed without having any compelling reasons. Check here: https://www.border.gov.au/about/corporate/information/fact-sheets/fact-sheet-52b#waiver.

Which Aus Visa did she held in the past?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
She was on a Tourist Visa. We are also trying to get her a WHV visa, but her country has a very small annual quota, so we cant really rely on it. :8
 

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Thanks, guys. Kaju's response scares me a bit. Our relationship is very real. This makes me wonder how do two non-Australians from different countries, or any foreign people for matter are able to prove that they are genuine? We did apply for her Tourist Visa a year ago and I wrote a supporting letter that she is my girlfriend and in the long term I intend to bring her to Australia with me.

I just don't know what to do. We are young and met in a foreign country and just didn't manage to establish all these formal things... And now we are in a long distance relationship and i just want to bring her over. Anyone?
I wouldn't suggest for a moment that your relationship is not real. :)

That's not the issue at all - what may be the issue is simply whether DIBP can consider you as a defacto couple.

You say "We have been together for 1.5 years. We studied together and lived at the university dorm's and hence our only real shared evidence are our trips (Australia, China, Malaysia, and I visited her country twice and met her family), pictures and chat logs." and "We didn't live together de jure, have no joint bank accounts and let alone witnesses from Australia."

DIBP says:

the couple must demonstrate that they have been in a de facto relationship for at least 12 months before the visa application is made. For migration purposes, a person is in a de facto relationship with another person if they:

are not married to each other
have a mutual commitment to a shared life to the exclusion of all others
are in a genuine and continuing relationship
live together or do not live separately and apart on a permanent basis
are not related by family.

So they may consider that you have not lived together. (It's my assumption, which may be completely wrong, that you did not actually live together at Uni, although you were both there and studied together).

DIBP says "Living together is regarded as a common element in most on-going relationships. It is recognised that, for various reasons, couples may sometimes have to live apart. Provided the separation is temporary and the couple had, at some point since commencement of the relationship lived together, their relationship might still satisfy the requirements of a de facto relationship."

The concept of a defacto relationship is effectively the same as a marriage - there is not simply an emotional commitment but also the financial, physical and social issues that could be shown during the 12 month period required, that would be considered.

You might like to re-read the link I posted - look at the "Commonly asked questions", in particular, "My partner and I met when we were travelling around the world and realise now that we want to remain together. "

I'm simply saying the rules may make it hard for you to be seen as a defacto couple right now. So it may be wise to be prepared for that, and see (as you already are doing :)) whether there may be other options.

You say "This makes me wonder how do two non-Australians from different countries, or any foreign people for matter are able to prove that they are genuine? We did apply for her Tourist Visa a year ago and I wrote a supporting letter that she is my girlfriend and in the long term I intend to bring her to Australia with me."

Many people want to bring partners/girlfriends/boyfriends to Australia. :) The issue is that many of these stated relationships are not real. This is why DIBP look for evidence that the relationship is real, and does show that the couple:

have a mutual commitment to a shared life to the exclusion of all others
are in a genuine and continuing relationship
live together or do not live separately and apart on a permanent basis


This is what applicants have to show, the same applies whether you are non-Australian or an Australian Citizen.

That relates to Partner visas too, even for people that have just got legally married.

The WHV visa is a very good idea - if your girlfriend (and that's what you have called her!) can get here that way, it's a great start - it would get you back together, and give you time to think of the best way to proceed for the long-term. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks for your response, kaju. I understand your point. The trouble with WHV is that Australia has allocated only 200 slots annually for her entire country (which is big). So, we would have to wait until July 1 and then compete with thousands of other for the spot. It is quite painful to wait for that long only to rely on finger speed (how fast can we fill out the online form).

We would have gone with PMV, but the waiting times for that one are tremendous too. So, it almost seems like risking with tourist + partner seems like an only option. Ive heard in this case you will automatically go on a Bridging visa and CO wont be assigned for another year or so. Is it really not conceivable that we can use the time on tourist visa and bridging visa to build solid evidence? Cant we keep adding evidence after the application is made? Or at the worst case scenario, appeal the whole thing with further evidence?

I realise that there are fake partnerships, but Australia strongly favours business and money to family relations. Frustrating!
 

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Thanks for your response, kaju. I understand your point. The trouble with WHV is that Australia has allocated only 200 slots annually for her entire country (which is big). So, we would have to wait until July 1 and then compete with thousands of other for the spot. It is quite painful to wait for that long only to rely on finger speed (how fast can we fill out the online form).

We would have gone with PMV, but the waiting times for that one are tremendous too. So, it almost seems like risking with tourist + partner seems like an only option. Ive heard in this case you will automatically go on a Bridging visa and CO wont be assigned for another year or so. Is it really not conceivable that we can use the time on tourist visa and bridging visa to build solid evidence? Cant we keep adding evidence after the application is made? Or at the worst case scenario, appeal the whole thing with further evidence?

I realise that there are fake partnerships, but Australia strongly favours business and money to family relations. Frustrating!
What visa either of you are on doesn't matter when building a history of living together - although it does matter in terms of how long you can do it for! :)

If you are living together (or at least have for some time), that all counts, no matter what visa you have. :)

So for example, if you are living together and one of you is on a tourist visa, you are still living together and any time like that goes towards helping to confirm to DIBP that you are a defacto couple.

However, it's very easy for people here to be paid by a fake partner and for them to live together for a few months. So DIBP will want to be reasonably sure that you meet their conditions.

Working Holiday Visa countries are generally only arranged with low risk countries, so perhaps your girlfriend/partner could get a ETA 601 visa. That might allow multiple stays of up to 3 months, allowing you to build up more of a history together. It may be that these 601 visas don't have a "No Further Stay" condition, but it it is very likely a 600 visa would have the condition. If you can get that 601 with no condition and then later apply for a Partner Visa with an associated Bridging Visa, great! :)

However, with a 600 Visa you might find that you can't get the "No Further Stay" condition waived, even if you got married.

Your best approach might be to talk to a MARA-registered migration agent- you don't have to apply through them (or take their advice of course) but a simple consultation should not be too expensive, and you'd hopefully get professional advice. :)
 
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