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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
From the 'other' site......

"Checks on foreign business tieups in Phuket

PHUKET: -- A fact-finding effort is underway in Phuket to compile information about local businesses in which Thai people are hired by foreigners as their nominees - a practice considered suspicious and possibly illegal.

Provincial governor Wichai Phrai-sa-ngob, who ordered the investigation, said he was not discriminating against foreign investors, but guarding against illegal nomination which exploited loopholes in Thai laws for personal gain.

Under the business nomination law, foreigners can hold no more than 49-per-cent ownership of any business they jointly invest in with Thais. An ongoing practice is that foreigners later gain control over Thais illegally, and enjoy a lower tax burden than when holding a minority ownership.

To scrutinise foreign businesses, the local revenue office is checking on their tax payments, while the treasury office is scrutinising ownership of condominium space. Immigration police are checking visa and residence status.

Local authorities and the Interior Ministry will look into all information and decide on what to do if the fact-finding reveals illegal business nomination activities, said the governor.

There are now 19,653 joint Thai-foreign businesses in Phuket, which have invested around Bt62 million."



I'm guessing that Bt62 is THB 62 Billion!? If there are 19,653 joint Thai - foreign owned business just in Phuket that means the 'average' joint venture is less than US$100,000. Actually,it's US$92,433 and most likely the farang put up ALL of the investment capital.

That's THB 62 Billion that Thailand would not have had to invigorate/reinvigorate Phuket. Is this for real? The Provincial Governor seems intent on killing the goose that laid the golden egg to ferret out those pesky rich foreigners. Does he not realize this will most likely dramatically reduce the amount of capital foreigners will be willing to bring into the county and the corresponding loss of jobs, the increase in poverty and crime.

Sounds to me like Provincial Governor Wichai Phrai-sa-ngob is jealous of farangs. With all of the restrictions in Thailand I don't think I'll be bringing much money into the country so that the government can seize it. The motto of the Thai government [and the Democratic Party here in the USA - "We're not happy until you're not happy."

Serendipity2
 

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Investing in Thailand: Nominees Issue, the witch hunt?

The hot potato of the moment is the Thai Nominees issue and there has not been one day for the past two weeks without an article or another in Thai press on the subject.


Today (2nd of September) there is an article in the Nation about the nominees issue in Phuket. This issue, is complicated enough in itself and the least we could expect from the Nation (a very good newspaper) is an article on the subject which makes sense.

Firstly there is no such a thing as the “business nomination law”. Secondly there is no law in Thailand, that would stipulates that foreign investors may not hold more than 49% of any businesses they invest into.

What there is the Foreign Business Act which regulates the business activities which are fully prohibited or which exercise by foreign investors in the form of a majority foreign owned business is submitted to the obtaining of permission that is to say a foreign business license or certificate depending of the circumstances?

Now the activities which are prohibited or restricted are listed in the FBA list 1, 2 and 3. To the contrary any activity which is not listed into the FBA attachments list 1, 2 and 3 may be exercised by foreign investors in the form of a 100% foreign ownership. For example, among businesses that may be exercised under the form of a 100% foreign investment are most manufacturing businesses. In other words, it is incorrect to say that foreign investors may not hold more than 49% of any business they invest into.

Secondly, the nation article also mention that “foreigners’ later gain control over Thai illegally, and enjoy a lower tax burden than when holding a minority ownership”. This is the strangest explanation I have ever seen. There is no correlation between ownership of a company and the amount of taxes said company will paid. Foreign or Thai are subjected to the same tax rates.

Thirdly, the reporter says that “there are now 19,653 joint Thai foreign businesses in Phuket, which have invested around THB 62,000,000”. I have a problem with this figure because it would mean that each Thai foreign Joint Venture in Phuket has invested a total of 3,154.75 THB (or 92 USD each). I guess that the figure of foreign investment in Phuket must be more in the range of several billions THB

What is true is that foreign investors may not hold more than 49% in a company that own land.

Actually the requirement is of the double majority and a company that own land must have 51% of Thai shareholders holding together 51% of the company shares. It is also true that the Land Law provide sanctions that are applicable to those that would be in violation and that have purchased land through Thai companies with Thai shareholders that may be deemed nominees.

What is also true is that “land trading” is a business that is prohibited to foreign investor under the Foreign Business Act List 1. This means that foreign investors may only own 49% participation into said business and that if they exercised said business with company that have Thai shareholders that may be deemed as Thai nominees they would also in addition face sanctions under the FBA Section 37 and followings.

There is definitively a problem in Thailand about how many foreign investors have structured their businesses and this issue has to be solved but starting a witch hunt and reporting nonsense as the Nation did this morning is certainly not the best way to deal with it.
 

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We are picky aren't we ? Why not be pleasant by refering to an old adage " Great minds think alike " . Should we all keep in our minds the basic goings on in Thailand , the land of the lost (True) smile , life will continue in a pleasant vein , THAILAND IS FOR THAIS , foriegners will not actualy own one iota of anything that constitutes Thailand per-se , keep your thoughts and propositions to yourself , deposit your money in the general funds pot and leave , which way would be most desirable for your good self .
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Serendipity2 may you born in China that you able so fast make "copy in other words" ?

Mindaugas,

I'm a very fast guy! :D

I think the amount was THB 62 Billion not THB 62 million - which would be an absurd amount to worry about - but $92,000 is a significant amount.

The article didn't specify businesses or land but did use condos in the article as an example but condo owners do not own the land - just the inside of their units. Unless condo ownership in Thailand is different than in the west - which I doubt.

Still, I'm sure the majority of that THB 62 Billion was invested by foreigners. Talk about a Provincial Governor shooting himself in the foot with worry. Government - the bane of our existence.

Serendipity2
 
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Great info. I'll be sure to pass it on to a few friends who are considering the Thai option.
I think it is a serious worry for Thais that if they let farrangs buy all the businesses and control the land, the Thais will be out of work and off the land. They have good reason to be concerned because that happened in Scotland and Ireland and believe it or not England under the enclosure laws not so long ago. Plus it is happening in the FSU now. I think there is a huge difference between investing money like a bank or a cash or intelectual property investor and taking over a country under false pretenses. :(
 

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I think it is a serious worry for Thais that if they let farrangs buy all the businesses and control the land, the Thais will be out of work and off the land. They have good reason to be concerned because that happened in Scotland and Ireland and believe it or not England under the enclosure laws not so long ago. Plus it is happening in the FSU now. I think there is a huge difference between investing money like a bank or a cash or intelectual property investor and taking over a country under false pretenses. :(
As i know all foreigners who works in Thailand give 4 working places for thai. So in this case thai are protected.
 

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They need falangs

I think it is a serious worry for Thais that if they let farrangs buy all the businesses and control the land, the Thais will be out of work and off the land. They have good reason to be concerned because that happened in Scotland and Ireland and believe it or not England under the enclosure laws not so long ago. Plus it is happening in the FSU now.
I wold'nt say it's a perfect truth, but a partial one.

Traveling now for six months in Asia, I didn't see a lot dynamic and courageous entrepreneurs there. May be a cultural feature, but they still quiet conservative and sometimes lazy to make news paths or try to be adapted to the market, as we see it in the Western countries. I spent two days explaining one guy in Champasak (Laos) that if he just buy one old computer and put an Internet access on it, his investment will be back in three moths exactly, then, the pure profit! He said, may be the next year....Even having the money to start something new, he doesn't want to change his usual way of living!

So, don't say guys, the falangs will take they job or they land. I wish to invest there, but I see so many racism and mad-minded comportment, stupid laws and people loosing they business, I think they loss a lot without foreign experience and money.
 
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I wold'nt say it's a perfect truth, but a partial one.

Traveling now for six months in Asia, I didn't see a lot dynamic and courageous entrepreneurs there. May be a cultural feature, but they still quiet conservative and sometimes lazy to make news paths or try to be adapted to the market, as we see it in the Western countries. I spent two days explaining one guy in Champasak (Laos) that if he just buy one old computer and put an Internet access on it, his investment will be back in three moths exactly, then, the pure profit! He said, may be the next year....Even having the money to start something new, he doesn't want to change his usual way of living!

So, don't say guys, the falangs will take they job or they land. I wish to invest there, but I see so many racism and mad-minded comportment, stupid laws and people loosing they business, I think they loss a lot without foreign experience and money.
Living some of the time in the North, I see most people perfectly happy with their life and they see no reason to change. Why let farrangs like us come in and destroy their life and culture like we did everywhere else. I spent a life running around busy and I envy their simple life. They need to run their own life the way they like it, not the way we want them to make money for us.
 

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Living some of the time in the North, I see most people perfectly happy with their life and they see no reason to change. Why let farrangs like us come in and destroy their life and culture like we did everywhere else. I spent a life running around busy and I envy their simple life. They need to run their own life the way they like it, not the way we want them to make money for us.
Thai are lazy(not all ) , they like the sanook , laid back life , a Thai will change his job for less money if he has to work less and can chat with his friends . It has been explained to rice farmers how to get at least 25% more yield if they work 10/12 hours more per growing season , production has not increased in several years , the only way they have been able to keep up with export demand , has been due to many Thai eating less rice . The other way is to rent the land to a foreigner and let him work it , they get money and some of the yield , why work when all they need to do is sit and watch the rice grow whilst drinking a whiskey and playing cards with friends .

Do not believe this , google China and Thailand for per rai yield of rice , China has almost double .
 
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Well in the likes of Isaan I've seen plenty of people putting in the hours, and working as hard as one might expect in a tropical climate. Vast swathes of China are a lot more conducive to working in the fields. It's a matter of perception, and taking all the factors into account. I don't say they slog their guts out, but why should they? That's mainly a Western/US concept, working all hours, for what? for a pittance more? People have different ideas about what 'quality of life' means.

Agreed alcohol consumption is a growing problem. As it is pretty much everywhere these days.
 

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Well in the likes of Isaan I've seen plenty of people putting in the hours, and working as hard as one might expect in a tropical climate. Vast swathes of China are a lot more conducive to working in the fields. It's a matter of perception, and taking all the factors into account. I don't say they slog their guts out, but why should they? That's mainly a Western/US concept, working all hours, for what? for a pittance more? People have different ideas about what 'quality of life' means.

Agreed alcohol consumption is a growing problem. As it is pretty much everywhere these days.
It is all well and good to be the 'Defender of the free " , but when the government threw money at them to up-date their farms to help make their lot in life more productive with less effort , what happened ? Many of them , instead of buying a tractor or an automatic rice planter(for instance) went out to buy a new truck and the latest TV , now some complain they cannot afford the fuel or the electricity to use them , they are merely deeper in dept .

They have no real concept of the value of money nor of how to invest it in equipment to improve their futures , in their culture(?) , there is no tomorrow and Buddha will provide , the government failed to educate them in these matters , for a reason of course .

You mention the tropical climate is not conducive to working in , they were born and bred into it the same way an eskimo (sorry, Inuit) was born to survive in sub-zero temperatures , they traversed for days or weeks at a time to ensure their survival , had they sat on their duffs to watch the fish grow , they would have frozen on the spot . Making excuses does not enhance either their life or their future , maipenrai .
 
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Like everything, there's an element of truth in that, but it's only part of the story. Go to pretty much any tropical country on the planet, and you'll see people working at a similar pace. As for using grants to buy the wrong things, some did, some didn't. Pretty stupid of the government not to tie the grants to specific types of purchase, but that's typical of the general incompetence of an undemocratic and largely corrupt administration.

Few people do have the same concept of money as in the West, where the notion of savings and investment isn't restricted to a privileged elite as in LOS. Pretty unsurprising really. People that aren't used to have more cash than they need to survive are going to get it wrong more often than not, until it becomes something they are used to and better understand.

These aren't excuses, it's about understanding human nature, wherever you are on the planet.
 

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Like everything, there's an element of truth in that, but it's only part of the story. Go to pretty much any tropical country on the planet, and you'll see people working at a similar pace. As for using grants to buy the wrong things, some did, some didn't. Pretty stupid of the government not to tie the grants to specific types of purchase, but that's typical of the general incompetence of an undemocratic and largely corrupt administration.

Few people do have the same concept of money as in the West, where the notion of savings and investment isn't restricted to a privileged elite as in LOS. Pretty unsurprising really. People that aren't used to have more cash than they need to survive are going to get it wrong more often than not, until it becomes something they are used to and better understand.

These aren't excuses, it's about understanding human nature, wherever you are on the planet.
I lived in a northern village for some time , houses became flooded during the rainy season since the government had built a new road for them , I talked to the head man about digging a drainage ditch down the side of the road , the response from the villagers "Why we do that ?"

I paid ten women B2,000 to dig the ditch to my specifications , guess what ? They uncovered the original culverts under the original drive ways into their homes and it barely took them one day to do the work . I was no longer there when the rains came , reports came down to BKK , no more flooding .

Please talk to me about human nature , that was maipenrai laziness .
 
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Laziness? Part and parcel of human nature - wherever you are in the world. It's not the result of some kind of genetic imprinting specific to those living within Thai borders, given that Thais are a mix of many nations that have come together over the eons. And Buddhism - when applied to strictly follow Theravada dhamma guidelines - is no more inclined towards laziness than any other philosophy. On the contrary, as the Dalai Lama said:

"One can be deceived by three types of laziness: of indolence, which is the wish to procrastinate; the laziness of inferiority, which is doubting your capabilities; and the laziness that is attachment to negative actions, or putting great effort into non-virtue."

Pretty much any people living in borderline poverty is disinclined to work their butts off to make the elite richer, while getting very little in return themselves. That will begin to change, as and when they get a slightly larger slice of the cake.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thai are lazy(not all ) , they like the sanook , laid back life , a Thai will change his job for less money if he has to work less and can chat with his friends . It has been explained to rice farmers how to get at least 25% more yield if they work 10/12 hours more per growing season , production has not increased in several years , the only way they have been able to keep up with export demand , has been due to many Thai eating less rice . The other way is to rent the land to a foreigner and let him work it , they get money and some of the yield , why work when all they need to do is sit and watch the rice grow whilst drinking a whiskey and playing cards with friends .

Do not believe this , google China and Thailand for per rai yield of rice , China has almost double .

oddball,

God forbid, the Thais are willing to trade a higher wage for .... quality of life? That's outrageous. We need to teach them to work like dogs so that they can have more "things" that the ultra wealthy make egregious profits on. Who do they think they are anyway. ;)

The main difference between the Chinese rice farmer and the Thai rice farmer is, usually the Thai owns his land and the Chinese farmer works for the government who owns the land. He or she is little better than a slave in China. There are exceptions but most will be at the top of the money food chain, ie the ruling class and to heck with the rest of the 1.295 billion people. No worries, soon we'll all be slaves anyway. America is the last bastion of freedom and it's going very fast. :/

Serendipity2
 

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Laziness? Part and parcel of human nature - wherever you are in the world. It's not the result of some kind of genetic imprinting specific to those living within Thai borders, given that Thais are a mix of many nations that have come together over the eons. And Buddhism - when applied to strictly follow Theravada dhamma guidelines - is no more inclined towards laziness than any other philosophy. On the contrary, as the Dalai Lama said:

"One can be deceived by three types of laziness: of indolence, which is the wish to procrastinate; the laziness of inferiority, which is doubting your capabilities; and the laziness that is attachment to negative actions, or putting great effort into non-virtue."

Pretty much any people living in borderline poverty is disinclined to work their butts off to make the elite richer, while getting very little in return themselves. That will begin to change, as and when they get a slightly larger slice of the cake.
This thread is strictly concerning Thai and Thailand and the reaction , or lack , of to working , when you quote other countries , you once again 'Excuse ' their indifference to work , you have lost your previous defence of living in a tropical belt . I can re-itterate many stories such as my previous post , but you , like so many 'Thai-wise ' will continue with the indefenceable , I have found on far too many occassions of helping at my expense , as soon as the dollar freely given stops , so does the induced work ethic .

How many Thai amongst the poor actualy follow the strict laws of Theravada ? You are a dreamer sir and will obviously never face up to the hard facts , until they can believe the fact laziness and maipenrai achieve little in their favour , they will never change for the better . I have never seen a Thai living in borderline poverty work his butt off unless i was paying him , paying him to achieve his own salvation , I supplied the means to some so they could operate a small buisiness , in short order the means were sold and they were back to square one , I finaly conceded to maipenrai .
 
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