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Avoiding the Spanish rip-off

11K views 116 replies 18 participants last post by  gus-lopez 
#1 ·
I love Spain, I really do. But man they like to rip you off here. What methods have you come up with for avoiding this?

My Spanish wife and I use only pre-paid cell phone and internet service (Movistar and Carrefour). It's technically more expensive and they still rip us off unashamedly but there are no bills so they can't steal any more than we have in our pre-paid accounts.

Has anyone been able to survive in Spain without a Spanish bank account? There is a thread in this forum that describes how the government here takes huge traffic fines directly out of people's accounts without any notification of why they are being fined. No thanks! I've read that it's difficult or impossible to pay household utilities without a bank account, but maybe we could rent places that include utilities or negotiate with the owners so that they'll pay the utilities.

Any other tips?
 
#2 ·
I've lived in Spain for 27 years and I've never once been ripped off. How are they unashamedly ripping you off via your cell phone and internet service? It sounds like you're ripping yourself off by knowingly paying more for prepaid.

A few years ago my husband got a speeding fine, he went to tráfico and paid it, end of subject. If he hadn't paid it, they would have taken the money from our bank account - because if you're a deadbeat and don't pay your fines you're ripping off the government. We've never had tráfico come and take money from our account for no reason.

We've never had the electric company, or the water company, or the phone company, or anybody take money from our account for no reason.

I don't mean to say that mistakes never happen because I'm sure they must. But I don't think it's all that common. Nobody within our circle of friends or family has had problems with being ripped off like you're talking about.

On the other hand, back in the States both my mother and my sister have had their credit cards used fraudulently, and a friend of mine had her identity stolen. Now THAT was a nightmare.

I think you need to get over your negativity and accept the system here if this is where you're making your home.
 
#38 ·
Same here - and in Real RIP-OFF (USA), you have a PAYG cell phone, you get charged even when somebody calls your number, either for a voice call or text. Put $10 on the phone and within 5 minutes it has all gone because as soon as you put the money on, a notification goes to all those telesales outfits who call your phone or send texts unsolicitedly. In every country there are Premium-rate numbers that you pay a premium rate to call just as there are free-phone numbers - everybody knows that and if you choose to call those premium numbers, it is your choice and you pay.
 
#3 ·
I have family who have lived here for 40 years and I have lived here for ten years. Never have we had problems like that. If you have a huge traffic fine, then that must have been a serious misdemeanour. If you pay within the the first two weeks they will reduce the fine by 50%.
I have always had a bank account in a Spain, and I will say this, I have a lot less problems in Spain than I ever had with a bank in the UK!
 
#4 ·
same here -yes things like phones & internet are expensive compared to other countries - but at least you don't pay to receive a call as istr you do in the US on a mobile

& as the others have said - the govt depts will only take money out if you owe it & other avenues of recovery have been exhausted

yes, maybe companies will make mistakes sometimes - but that will happen anywhere in the world

I'm not sure if anywhere else in the world you can go into your bank within a certain time of money being erroneously taken & the bank will recover it there & then, though - as they do here in Spain
 
#5 ·
We've been "ripped off" twice in five years, once by two guys pretending to be from the gas company and demanding cash up front to fit a new flue (they never came back), and once by a British expat who made a hash of fitting our TV aerial.

As XC says, taking money from your bank account is very much the last resort and totally avoidable if you pay what you owe on time.
 
#7 · (Edited)
You guys are funny. You know I'm not talking about criminals, right?

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...iving-spain/182273-dealing-orange-mobile.html

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/127813-bandits.html

I think you need to get over your negativity and accept the system here if this is where you're making your home.
What negativity? I said I love Spain. But that doesn't mean I'll bury my head in the sand. How many hits on Google for "Éste es un país de chorizos"?
 
#13 ·
You guys are funny. You know I'm not talking about criminals, right?

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...iving-spain/182273-dealing-orange-mobile.html

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/127813-bandits.html


What negativity? I said I love Spain. But that doesn't mean I'll bury my head in the sand. How many hits on Google for "Éste es un país de chorizos"?
I recall a forum in the UK that had as members, a section of Brit expats living in the USA, if you were to believe them, they all flew the stars and stripes and sang the American national anthem every night.

As I see things all that you are saying is that although you obey Spanish laws, you don't particularly agree with all of them, nothing wrong with that in my book.
 
#9 ·
I got ripped off in New York City. I got ripped off many times in Prague. I've been ripped off in Spain by Brits and South Americans.

When you decide to live in a country, you accept it warts and all. I don't find that many 'warts' in Spain but as in any other country you will find plenty of people all too ready and willing to take advantage of the naive and inexperienced.

For me, the very many pluses of life here outweigh the few -very few - minuses. Very often, when looking at some new kitchen appliance or piece of IT kit here I note that the price is considerably cheaper in the UK. But what price tranquility, good weather, an easy lifestyle and kind, warm people?

But to consider going back to live in the UK or posting negativity about Spain because I've had to pay a few euros more for a toaster or whatever ...no way Jose!
 
#16 ·
For me, the very many pluses of life here outweigh the few -very few - minuses.
But that's not the point the OP is making is it? You're making a value judgement on where you would rather live weighing up all the pluses and minuses—what you can live with and what you can't. That's nothing to do with being 'ripped off'.

I define being 'ripped off' as paying good money and receiving an inferior service. I could name one of dozens of Spanish companies that do just that.

I still haven't got to the bottom of why my electricity bills vary every single month. Not one single month is the same despite the apartment only being occupied at most 6 weeks of the year. And for that, I'm paying on average €26 a month. €26 a month for an apartment only occupied 6 weeks of the year—what is using that much electricity? I pay on average £30 a month here in the UK for electricity and that's for a 3 bed house occupied all the time!

Even accepting that electricity is more expensive in Spain, there's something wrong somewhere and I can't figure out what it is. So I believe I'm being ripped off, but there's not much I can do about it apart from accept it or put my hard hat on and start trying to get some answers from endesa.

So I have some sympathy for what the OP is saying.
 
#11 ·
I got ripped off in New York City. I got ripped off many times in Prague. I've been ripped off in Spain by Brits and South Americans.
I can't say for sure what you're talking about, but I want to say again that I'm not talking about criminals. I find Spain to be incredibly safe and free of crime actually.

When you decide to live in a country, you accept it warts and all.
I completely disagree. In the name of progress, let's hope that attitude is held by a minority of the people here.
 
#14 · (Edited)
.


I completely disagree. In the name of progress, let's hope that attitude is held by a minority of the people here.
In the name of progress, we have created weapons that can destroy humanity.
In the name of progress, we in the UK are about to spend £billions on a new High Speed train to shave twenty minutes off a journey from London to Birmingham.
In the name of progress we invade other countries and impose our 'progressive' ways on those left alive after their liberation.
In the name of progress, we run around like rats stressing ourselves to make a few more bucks.

In the name of sanity, enjoy Spain as it is, yes, warts and all, because the Spanish people themselves are quite capable of removing them, if they see the need to.

The concept of 'progress' is not always a benevolent one. Me, I prefer tranquility. I've lived through a lot of 'progress'and it doesn't seem to have increased the sum of human happiness that much.:)

And you chose the title 'rip off'....:)
 
#12 ·
If you move you have to be sure to notify tráfico of your change of address. If you don't, they won't have any way of notifying you should you get a fine. Because they DO send a notice - to the address of record. It's up to you to keep your address of record current.

I have to agree that internet/mobile phone companies here have really lousy customer service. I've had a few problems with Orange along the way. But I don't think they set out to do wrong by their customers. They're probably understaffed and the staff undertrained. But is this unique to Spain? I spent hours dealing with problems with Virgin Mobile last summer, in the States.
 
#15 ·
Trafico ONLY communicate with a permanent address. If, like many including Spaniards , you live in the campo & Correos will not deliver meaning that you have to take out a PO box, Trafico will not send info to one. Which means you'll either need the 'buscamultas' alert or read the BoE , weekly.

Orange is utter***** to deal with, even in the UK. I can't believe it would be any better here.
As a customer service woman explained to me here one day in 2008; " The mobile phone service & internet supply here in Spain is over-priced, breaks down repeatedly , has huge gaps in coverage, & all the companies treat the customers badly".
Having sat in a Guardia Civil office , passing the time of day for over 15 minutes while we awaited the return of the internet, fibre-optic by the way ; & being told that it happened at least 6-10 times per shift , there doesn't seem to be much improvement since then.
 
#18 ·
I got a parking fine deducted from my Bank Account. Apparently I had parked my car in a Bus Lane in the Town and a fine was attached to car. I didn't pay the fine because I never got the paperwork (and I was in Hospital with my wife, who was giving birth at the alleged time of the infraction). The fine was deducted because I did not appeal in the given time, and I did not appeal because I was not aware of it.
Sometimes **** happens, get over it.
 
#20 ·
Eric Pickles is hopeful of getting a bill through parliament banning local authorities from issuing parking fines based on CCTV evidence. I can just imagine a control room staffed by a load of spotty 19 year olds making a game out of their jobs. A shout will go out when one spotty nabs an eight second parking infraction in respect of a master criminal posting a letter.

Let us hope that it spreads to HMRC, in respect of them purposely date stamping in urgent documentation a day late. If something is wrong, believe it or believe it not, it is also wrong in Spain, honestly it really is.
 
#21 ·
Have reread this and can't see why you think your prepaid cellphone is a ripoff. It seems that you find it more expensive than in the US. Well, I can tell you you'd pay more in the Czech Republic or Poland, to name only two countries. Why use the word 'steal'? So your main complaint is the cost of cellphone calls....

You could survive without a Spanish bank account by opening an offshore euro account or a euro account with a US bank..Mine was with a Canadian bank. You need only €100 to open most offshore accounts. Then your money will be safe.

Mind you, I closed my euro account with my offshore bank not because of any ripoff but because of their incompetence and not even a couple of hundred euros compensation stopped me transferring my euros to my very efficient Spanish bank.

As for multas.... I prudently check regularly using the site Alcalaina thoughtfully provided. It takes two minutes...
 
#22 ·
I'm with mrypg9 on this. It's the use of the phrase "rip off" that cause bells to ring.
If you're saying that there are companies and organizations that abuse their power or take advantage of their clients, yes that happens. You have to be on the look out and read small print, but IMO just as you would have to anywhere.
If you're saying that the people in supermarkets in tourists area give you the wrong change, of course it happens, but it's not a national past time.
But the fact that XYZ is cheaper, or better or done differently in the UK/ USA is not really here or there because this is Spain. It might take some getting used to but sometimes things here are just different and that doesn't make it a rip off - necessarily.
 
#25 ·
I experienced a small but enlightening aspect of how things are here and how others perceive things last week when my son and I went to collect various items from several places for our Spanish Night.
My son, who works via his mobile and tablet even whilst on holiday is used to everything being done in what he would regard as an efficient, time-saving and business-like manner. So when at each place we had to pick up stuff I engaged in five minutes or more of polite conversational exchange with the people who were lending the stuff he began to fret and fuss.
I chatted with the nice lady who lent us the enormous paella pan and complimented her on her garden so she gave us a guided tour. Then I chatted with the nice lady in charge of the local Alzheimers Society who lent us the tables. Much looking at watch from son. Then I exchanged chat about the politics of Estepona with the people at the Plataforma who lent us the sound system.

Rob said, quite reasonably by the norms of his highly-pressurised working life, that it was no wonder that Spain was on its uppers if every transaction was carried on like this. Trying to sooth him we went to a cafe I like...to find it was closed for siesta. Cue more 'No wonder..'etc. etc.

Well, I suppose I can see his point. It is frustrating sometimes when you're in a hurry and you hsve to chat to the person at the Town Hall about their son/daughter/granny/pet cat etc. But what is lost on the one hand is in my opinion less valuable than what is gained on the other. A friend was quite shocked to see Rob sitting with a beer talking on his mobile to someone in the City about a work issue - and billing for the time spent - whilst supposedly on holiday.

Well, it's horses for courses, as the saying goes. My son and dil have had property here for fifteen years but come usually for weekend breaks and tbh know little of Spain beyond their favourite mainly Brit-clientele restaurants. Nothing wrong with that.
But I thought it was an interesting if minor vignette of a culture clash and it occurred to me that, whilst in no way wanting to be a 'plastic Spaniard', I was in some ways quietly 'going native'.
 
#24 ·
I should have defined what I mean by "rip-off".

I'm not talking about any sort of criminal activity. Spain has been incredibly crime-free in my experience. I'm not talking high prices. If you don't like the price you shouldn't buy it. I'm talking about the other stuff.

Examples:

1. Three days ago I tried to withdraw about $500 from an ATM. The transaction was declined and a receipt printed confirming this (in English). That night I happened to check my bank account online and the money had been withdrawn from my account! I called my bank (Chase) and they put the money back into my account and opened an investigation. I've been using ATMs my entire adult life in about 30 different countries and that has never happened before. That's a rip-off.

2. The Carrefour cell phone carrier advertises a certain rate for all calls within Spain. They don't tell you that certain numbers happen to be charged at 10 times that rate, including Carrefour's own customer service number! This is absolutely not in the fine print. I checked. When I called Carrefour I was told it isn't in the fine print because "everybody knows that". That's a rip-off.

3. Although this has never happened to me, taking a fine, late fees, and interest out of someone's bank account without ensuring that they were notified of the fine to begin with is a rip-off.

Companies and government agencies in Spain does this kind of stuff a lot. But don't take it from me.

"Éste es un país de chorizos" or "This is a country of cheaters":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9hrzylIqA8

Check out the look on that lady's face sitting next to him. Does she get it?

P.S. I love Spain. That doesn't mean it's perfect and that doesn't mean I have to keep my mouth shut about its imperfections.
 
#26 ·
What you describe in Point One happened to me when I arrived in Spain. Culprit: my offshore bank. Nothing to do with Spain.

Point Two: yes, it's daylight robbery. I agree. But it's common practice in very many countries. I'm not sure how but I knew that about Carrefour. Must have read it somewhere....maybe from someone like you complaining!:)

Point Three: I agree it's an odd way of going about things. But hey, it affects more Spaniards than immigrants and if the natives feel so outraged by this kind of grab, it's up to them to pressure for change. Maybe like many of us they just make regular checks on that buscamultas site.

For anyone not Spanish to describe Spain as a 'country of cheaters' would imo be very OTT. I felt that there were many things I didn't like about the Czech Republic but Czechs I discussed them with didn't seem fazed. So we moved rather than stay and be unhappy

As for 'a nation of cheaters' - let's think about some of the more accurate descriptions that unfriendly people might apply to your country and mine, the UK.....
Illegal invaders of sovereign states, imposing our own mores and customs on other cultures, using our soft and hard power to pressurise weaker states to our advantage, commercial exploitation of developing nations by US and UK controlled global corporations....

I would respectfully submit the thesis that these might be more serious instances of abuse than glitches at the bank or higher than expected charges for cellphone calls.

I find a lot of things in Spain frustrating and unlike the life I had in the UK before I left nearly ten years ago too. But 'nation of cheaters'.....that's a bit too strong.
 
#27 ·
But hey, it affects more Spaniards than immigrants and if the natives feel so outraged by this kind of grab, it's up to them to pressure for change.
In my opinion, it's up to anyone affected by it.

As for 'a nation of cheaters' - let's think about some of the more accurate descriptions that unfriendly people might apply to your country and mine, the UK.....
Illegal invaders of sovereign states, imposing our own mores and customs on other cultures, using our soft and hard power to pressurise weaker states to our advantage, commercial exploitation of developing nations by US and UK controlled global corporations....

I would respectfully submit the thesis that these might be more serious instances of abuse than glitches at the bank or higher than expected charges for cellphone calls.
Sure, but mrypg9, this thread isn't about which country is better or worse. It's about avoiding Spanish rip-offs.

By the way, thank you for your idea about getting a bank account in Euros outside of Spain. Does anyone know if I could use an account like that to pay rent or utilities?
 
#29 ·
In my opinion, it's up to anyone affected by it.



Sure, but mrypg9, this thread isn't about which country is better or worse. It's about avoiding Spanish rip-offs.

By the way, thank you for your idea about getting a bank account in Euros outside of Spain. Does anyone know if I could use an account like that to pay rent or utilities?
Yes, you can use it for any purpose as you would any account. There is a mistaken belief that offshore accounts are for crooks or the mega-rich....nonsense.
I opened my offshore account because I got fed up with the exorbitant bank charges of Czech banks who charged 20 euros equivalent for each £ sterling cheque I paid in...even if the cheque was for less than 20 euros!!
I chose an offshore bank of a UK bank so maybe there's a similar U.S. offshore bank you can use?
You'll get a cash card so you can withdraw euros in Spain but I keep most of my £ in my offshore account and change only enough euros to go into my Spanish account to cover living expenses for a few months so there's never that much in my Spanish accounts for anyone to grab!

I think I could agree with you if instead of words like 'cheat' or 'ripoff' we could use terms like 'appalling inefficiencies' 'seemingly unjustifiable charges' and 'customer service that often falls short of what one should reasonably expect':)
 
#30 ·
Beware of offshore accounts if you're required to file an FBAR with the US Treasury Department. They set off red flags.
I'm not sure why it would need to be offshore really. The goal is to have a Euro bank account that the Spanish government can't pilfer that I can still use for times when it's required. Would an account in any other Euro country work for that?

But I don't think an FBAR is required as long as I keep less than $10K USD in it.
 
#32 · (Edited)
No, you need to show that you are resident in a country where you wish to open an account which you don't need to to open an offshore account. I had to submit the usual passport, proof of current address, bank statements for the previous six months and proof of origin of income, I suppose to show I wasn't money-laundering or an international drug smuggler...although I think folk of that type normally have a much bigger income than I had and have.:D

I had bank accounts in four countries at one time which made life complicated and involved a lot of extra work managing my accounts. I had an account in the UK as I had lived there before moving, an account in Canada as we had property there, an account in the Czech Republic as we were living there and I worked there and then in Spain.
The offshore account plus the Spanish current account made life easier and was much cheaper to run!
 
#36 ·
Avoiding the Spanish tip-off



I agree with you that the way they do things can be very strange. I was born and raised in a Latin country, but have lived many years in the Unuted Stated. I also dislike what you describe, they tend to complicate everything unnecessarily. You have to be extremelly alert in any transaction, no matter how small. I have my own theories about this behavior but I won't disciss it in the forum.
 
#39 ·
I agree with you that the way they do things can be very strange. I was born and raised in a Latin country, but have lived many years in the Unuted Stated. I also dislike what you describe, they tend to complicate everything unnecessarily. You have to be extremelly alert in any transaction, no matter how small. I have my own theories about this behavior but I won't disciss it in the forum.
When you say 'they' do you mean all Spanish people, most Spanish people, many Spanish people, a few Spanish people or just the one or two who pissed you off?:confused:
 
#40 ·
I was recently ripped off in the UK, I had just topped my phone up by £10.00 only to find that my credit had run out. I googled and ended up with the regulators number, the guy was great, he laughed and said "yes you have been tricked into accepting premium rate calls, just give me the number and I will sort it out", and sort it out he did, but I can't for the life of me recall giving someone the authority to nuke my phone credit. :mad:
 
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