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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi there,


I've been living in Australia for the past year and half on a 461 visa (nz family, partner is a kiwi) but I have a Canadian PR. Therefore we intend to move in Canada in the next few weeks... Because obviously my 461 status is never going to get me a PR here in oz. And basically I don't want to be just a "shadow" in a country... I want to have rights and all of them!

Excited to go but I really question myself on whether or not it is the right decision for both of us.


I would like some opinions on the life here in OZ compared to Canada.
Cost of living, job opportunities, salaries?

Thanks for your responses
 

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Why you no try to apply for Australia 175 or 176 visa ?

I have many family in Canada, but i still chose Australia because Canada economy is in the wrong side since it is heavily dependent on the united states. Australia on the other hand shifting its direction towards Asia which is smart move for the next couple of decades..

The economy has been crashing in Canada and unemployment rising quickly, There are v limited opportunities for immigrants in general. A quick search online for jobs in canada will get u v disappointing results try it. All too common for PHDs to be driving taxi in Canada or flippin burgers it v sad.

Another problem is the weather is terrible for most of the year, too cold.

The good part is cost of living is cheaper than Australia, taxes are lower. Australia cost of living is pathetic.

One thing v common about Immigrants to Canada you will see most ppl tell you same story is that once they get the canadian passport, many many go back to home country or migrate to another country with their new passport due to limited opportunities.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The thing is I never had any good opportunities here in oz. And I used to live in Canada and always had great opportunities! As I'm French they look for french speaking people all over the place so it makes it easier for me...

But I agree that you can have a good life here in oz as well...
 

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Hi Stephhhhh,

Since it sounds like you have both lived in Canada and currently living in Australia, you know what would be better for you and your partner. You have to go where there are opportunities for you and that you can get the rights and benefits of the country. In addition, being able to speak in French is an advantage considering probably the people that were once there have moved on to other countries for other opportunities. Now they have that void.

Hi Rizza2012,
I live in the US and didn't realize Canada's unemployment is rising quickly. Probably because we have our own problems here in the US that we don't hear that much news about Canada even though the countries are neighbors. I wonder why it's the case in Canada at this time when in the US, the jobs per month is slightly increasing which lowers the unemployment.

Your comment about PHDs driving taxis or flipping burgers is not only happening in Canada. It probably happens everywhere like the US and Australia. Many new immigrants end up doing jobs that they would have never done in their own country. However, in the new country, they can't seem to get a job in their profession so they have to get a job in something.

I have read many posts on this forum and others that have new immigrants complaining when they have come to Australia and can't get a job. These are mostly people that received a visa 175/176 which means they have skills. Australia may say they have a shortage. But in a way, I think they are selective in the people they want to hire. You often will read someone posting that they have the PHD, work experience, etc. that fits the actual job. However, they are told they don't have the local work experience. Now what is this skilled immigrant supposed to do? How can someone that just arrived in the country supposed to get local work experience if these companies are not willing to give them a chance.

I guess we all need to understand not to judge people on what new job they have in the new country that isn't what their previous profession was. These people took a risk and I know majority was so that they can have a better life for their family. Many immigrants have gone through this path. It was hard in the beginning. But after so many years, they are able to prosper in their new life. Better opportunities for their children in the new country. I think some countries build up this culture where having a high ranking profession, PHD,etc. make the title so prestige. While other countries know about these titles but really don't care. People would be surprised to know that other professions like plumbers,electricians,etc.. and who have their own business due to some of these professions make pretty good money.
 

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Nice thread, good informative contributions.
Generally its about job and making money, both are good if ur earning exceeds or even matches your expense. Climatically for Asians, Oz is better and for Europeans, Canada can be a good choice.
 

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Hi Stephhhhh,



Your comment about PHDs driving taxis or flipping burgers is not only happening in Canada. It probably happens everywhere like the US and Australia. Many new immigrants end up doing jobs that they would have never done in their own country. However, in the new country, they can't seem to get a job in their profession so they have to get a job in something.
This is true, I recently read this article:

African doctors are driving Melbourne's taxis


I have read many posts on this forum and others that have new immigrants complaining when they have come to Australia and can't get a job. These are mostly people that received a visa 175/176 which means they have skills. Australia may say they have a shortage. But in a way, I think they are selective in the people they want to hire.

I also agree that they're selective in who they hire. I think the culprit is really with small to medium businesses (it always usually is) lol. But that's why with the new upcoming points system, (which I believe is a very good system) employers will no longer be as selective in choosing a person's age, gender and general background.

But, I do wonder what will happen if the employer is not satisfied with their new employee once they find out who they are. Will it be like the 457 where they're let go and given 28 days to find a new sponsor? I wonder.
 

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This is true, I recently read this article:

African doctors are driving Melbourne's taxis





I also agree that they're selective in who they hire. I think the culprit is really with small to medium businesses (it always usually is) lol. But that's why with the new upcoming points system, (which I believe is a very good system) employers will no longer be as selective in choosing a person's age, gender and general background.

But, I do wonder what will happen if the employer is not satisfied with their new employee once they find out who they are. Will it be like the 457 where they're let go and given 28 days to find a new sponsor? I wonder.
v sad story how skin color decides your fate, Australia sounds like apartheid South Africa or the USA in the 30's. As mentioned in the article the problem with Australia seems to be based on what i read everywhere is RACISM. Basically non whites have a v hard time finding a job despite opportunities being available. Canada on the other hand from countless people's experiences has been mainly due to lack of opportunities in general. Racism is a huge problem in Australia as i read compared to Canada or USA.

Anyway in this case well since ur french and u mentioned its easy for french to get jobs in canada
 

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In regards to the doctors' situation in the article, even doctors that come to the US don't automatically find jobs. I believe majority of these doctors have to go back to do some retraining and take some exams before they will be offered a job that paid the salary of that particular job. The reason being the process and procedures learned from another country might not be the same that are followed in the US. The doctors from the other countries might be used to doing some procedure in their home country, but coming in the US, it might not be what is done. Considering in the US where there is a high number of lawsuits that occur, I'm sure these hospitals needs to make sure these new immigrant doctors are aware of the processes and procedures that the US follows. I personally knew of new immigrant doctors that had to go through this.

As for the African doctors in Australia. It didn't state if all the doctors went back to retraining and didn't get a job. Or they just didn't want to do it because they needed to find work right away. Doctors that maybe coming from the US or Canada might have be more acceptable to find a job in Australia if these countries follow the same medical procedures,etc. I'm sure they might still have to go through some short term training to familiarize what the difference could be with medical procedures.

I guess the discussion should be.. is the discrimination against what country the person is coming from? What if one of the doctors that was discussed in the article grew up and educated and worked in the US and Canada. Then decided that he/she wanted to migrate to Australia. I think this doctor's credentials might be looked differently as compared to someone's credential say from Africa? I don't think it's necessarily the color of the person's skin. But maybe the country they are coming from? Even if you already are residing in Australia and submit a resume. Your work experience and education will tell the HR specialist what country you are coming from.

Something must be going on in Australia. How many countries in the world has a skills shortage in various professions and industries? It has been going on for awhile but it looks like the Australian government and Australian companies have not yet figured out how to fix this shortage.

If there really is a shortage problem, I don't think they are utilizing the resources they have. There are probably thousands of new immigrants approved for a visa on the skilled migration program every year. The Australian government approves the visa indicating their skills are recognized in Australia. However, when these people start looking for jobs, they are not called. When companies post the jobs online, do they only review the people that applied? If they don't like any of the people that applied, do they bother to check the resumes of many people that have registered in their recruitment agency's database? The same can be applied to the many companies in Australia using their resume database as well? Someone on this forum posted that he had a friend that was a HR specialist. That friend told him anytime he sees an applicant that is applying from abroad, he doesn't bother to review the resume or consider. Is this what Australian HR professionals are being told? Why do that when Australia is in a skilled shortage? That means there are not enough skilled workers in the country. So the only way that you could probably fill the job is to find someone outside of the country?

Also, when these new immigrants are granted the visa, there is also another resume database they can enter their information for potential employers to contact them if they fit the job posting. Do employers really check this DIAC resume database?

Then I have read on this forum and the internet about immigrants granted the visa 176. This requires the immigrants to live and work in a specific area of a state for 2 years because there is a skills shortage. But then you read how these people can't fight jobs. Now why is the Australian government granting these visas when it clearly indicates that there probably is not a lot of jobs in that area? Are they approving it so these new people can start living in the state and contributing to the economy with savings from where they came from? Just because if they have no job, they are only able to survive with the money they brought over.

The Australian government really needs to communicate with its different state governments along with the companies to determine how to resolve the skills shortage. The Australian government are bringing the skilled people. But it must not be the correct profession or industry experience that they need?

Instead of a employer sponsored visa. Why don't these companies try to find jobs for the people that are already approved for a PR visa? They wouldn't need to sponsor them and they already went through the rigorous process of sending all the documents to have their skills assessed by the specific organization.
 

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In regards to the doctors' situation in the article, even doctors that come to the US don't automatically find jobs. I believe majority of these doctors have to go back to do some retraining and take some exams before they will be offered a job that paid the salary of that particular job. The reason being the process and procedures learned from another country might not be the same that are followed in the US.
This here is very true. I know of someone who came from the Dominican Republic and had to take a continuing ed "bridging course" plus State exams in order to pass her dental boards. She did this and today is practicing her dentistry successfully in California.

Here in the United States, they kind of make it obvious that you can't practice unless you meet the guidelines, meaning by passing the exams and the "bridging" courses along with them.

The difference though, between Oz and the States is that for one to migrate to Oz, one has to go through a skills assessment, and then they tell you directly whether your qualifications are "suitable" and if your degree is "equivalent" to Australian standards. So why give someone a suitable skills assessment if they're not up to Australian standards? But, then again.... the article does mention that they *do* need to take special classes but they fail to do so because "everyone has big families that need to be fed"

My solution for this would be to have these doctors take and pass the exams before migrating to Oz. It should be an extra step they take, in addition to their skills assessment.

Something must be going on in Australia. How many countries in the world has a skills shortage in various professions and industries? It has been going on for awhile but it looks like the Australian government and Australian companies have not yet figured out how to fix this shortage. If there really is a shortage problem, I don't think they are utilizing the resources they have.
I honestly think that the businesses that are facing shortages are very selective in who they are employing. Someone may have a prestigious degree from a very well-known university, but perhaps they don't know how to interview well. Or maybe the person doing the interview doesn't think the person is a "good fit" - for whatever reason.

At my job, there was a very well-paying position that had been open for a good two years. It was for a Cisco-qualified engineer. The reason why it wasn't filled was straight out lack of skill. People, however, would lie about their qualifications, while on paper they looked stellar and well-qualified. Some people even had the actual certification. But the strange thing was that when you'd ask them a simple question, they would absolutely not know the answer! Even for a stupid question like what's the difference between a router and a switch - they plain would not know. So who knows at this point. It could be a combination of all of the above.

Instead of a employer sponsored visa. Why don't these companies try to find jobs for the people that are already approved for a PR visa? They wouldn't need to sponsor them and they already went through the rigorous process of sending all the documents to have their skills assessed by the specific organization.
Well, that's exactly why the new system is being implemented. No one will be able to migrate unless they're being considered for a specific job. Just like the current 457's. :confused2:
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Yes here in oz they're very selective, I could only find a job in a factory! My very first time in such a job... In Canada I used to work in a bank and travel agency...

Racism is for sure a huge problem.

But again it depends where I oz!
Sydney where I am at the moment is just saturated!
Everybody comes here so the competition is high to start with.
But elsewhere is fine.

As for the jobs, my partner is a tradesman and he's making a very good income. Around $2000 a week.

He never lived in Canada, so it's a bit of a risk on his side.

In oz you can make a lot as a tradesman but in Canada you'd make a lot with a brainy job. Would this make sense?
 

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Steph,
I understand your comment that in Australia that a tradesman can make a lot of money. I met an Australian while on a tour group abroad. She mentioned that the salaries of service people.. example waitresses at a restaurant is pretty good compared to say in the US. The reason we started talking about it was because she told me that it wasn't common to leave tips for waitresses/waiters? Strange concept to Americans considering we are required to leave a tip at a restaurant if we are served,etc. The salaries that these waiters/waitresses are low with the expectation that they will make more from the tips of customers.

However, the salaries of professionals is not so generous in comparison to workers in the service area as you would expect in Australia. I'm sure there are exceptions. But most people comment that salaries from the US or Canada seem to be a little higher compared to Australia.

It is hard to compare the opportunities vs salaries in Australia to Canada and US compared to the population and size of all the countries. Your partner should be able to adjust to Canada without too much culture shock. If he's traveled to the US, Canada has similar type of surroundings. Of course, differences in architecture, etc. As for weather, yes it will get really cold in the winter months. That's when most people stay indoors most of the time unless you are into winter sports. But most of the housing will be well insulated and heat available. I'm stating this because when I visited NZ about 3 years ago visiting relatives during winter. I was in shock how it was so cold inside the house. Apparently my relatives didn't have heating set up in the house and there was definitely no insulation in the house! They kept their winter coats on and we stocked up in blankets. I didn't say anything. But it was quite different that I'm used to considering when we have the heat on in the house here in the US during winter, we usually don't need our coats on.

Stormgal,
I believe doctors and other professions immigrating to the US would also have to go through some skills assessment. I don't think the doctors could take the exams before they arrive in the US or Australia. The reason being the exams and training are administered in the US or Australia. The country where the person is immigrating too. However, I think for nurses coming into the US, there are specified countries abroad that the applicant can take the board exams before they get approved for a visa. But for doctors, I don't believe they have the same set up.
 

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Stormgal,

I forgot to mention in my post above about that there is a training program for engineers implemented now in Australia. Read the discussion from a previous post:
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...ogram-help-immigrant-engineers-find-jobs.html

I finally found the whole article of what it's all about:
Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

I believe you are in the engineering profession?

As for your other comment about that person that applied for a job and actually didn't know anything about the specifics. I think people need to understand that you maybe able to talk your way in getting through an interview. However, people will realize if you know anything when you start your job and you are asking about basic information that you should already know. My brother told about an incident at his work too. Some guy said he knew this software program. But when they were taking an additional training class, he was asking questions that everyone should already know about.. basic terminology,etc. He was soon fired after he was confronted if he lied about what he knew during the interview and what was on his resume.
 

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My husband and I moved from Canada and the reason is because we want to get closer to our parent in Indonesia and spend more time with them. When we first moved to USA, it took only 1 week for my husband to find a job as a line cook at a big restaurant in California. Then we moved to Alberta, Canada. With his experience from California, he got a job on the first day we arrived there. After a while he changed his career as a welder. He went door to door to every companies in Edmonton asking if they need a welder helper. It didn't took that long to find it even without any experience. When we moved to Adelaide, he applied for both cook and welder positions. And...ohhhh it took a while to get a job here. He is doing a welder job now, but the money is about the same like the one he made in Canada and the living cost is more expensive here. As for me, I'm still looking for an administration job. It was easier for me to find a job when I was in USA and Canada.

I went to Interlink program sponsored by SA Government for new skilled immigrant. Most everyone has the same problem, hard to find a job. My husband never had a resume when he looked for cook or welder helper job in Canada, he just showed up and told them that he need a job and they told him to start working the next day.

So Step, if your partner is a tradesman...Alberta will be a good place to find a job.
 

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Steph,
I understand your comment that in Australia that a tradesman can make a lot of money. I met an Australian while on a tour group abroad. She mentioned that the salaries of service people.. example waitresses at a restaurant is pretty good compared to say in the US. The reason we started talking about it was because she told me that it wasn't common to leave tips for waitresses/waiters? Strange concept to Americans considering we are required to leave a tip at a restaurant if we are served,etc. The salaries that these waiters/waitresses are low with the expectation that they will make more from the tips of customers.

However, the salaries of professionals is not so generous in comparison to workers in the service area as you would expect in Australia. I'm sure there are exceptions. But most people comment that salaries from the US or Canada seem to be a little higher compared to Australia.

It is hard to compare the opportunities vs salaries in Australia to Canada and US compared to the population and size of all the countries. Your partner should be able to adjust to Canada without too much culture shock. If he's traveled to the US, Canada has similar type of surroundings. Of course, differences in architecture, etc. As for weather, yes it will get really cold in the winter months. That's when most people stay indoors most of the time unless you are into winter sports. But most of the housing will be well insulated and heat available. I'm stating this because when I visited NZ about 3 years ago visiting relatives during winter. I was in shock how it was so cold inside the house. Apparently my relatives didn't have heating set up in the house and there was definitely no insulation in the house! They kept their winter coats on and we stocked up in blankets. I didn't say anything. But it was quite different that I'm used to considering when we have the heat on in the house here in the US during winter, we usually don't need our coats on.

Stormgal,
I believe doctors and other professions immigrating to the US would also have to go through some skills assessment. I don't think the doctors could take the exams before they arrive in the US or Australia. The reason being the exams and training are administered in the US or Australia. The country where the person is immigrating too. However, I think for nurses coming into the US, there are specified countries abroad that the applicant can take the board exams before they get approved for a visa. But for doctors, I don't believe they have the same set up.


When it was -50C in Alberta, I could stay warm in the house and I set the house temperature at 16C. Right now, 15C in Adelaide and it's sooooo freezing inside the house. The house is not designed for winter I guess.
 

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I think the vast majority here would've applied to Canada instead of Australia if Canada did not change its immigration system back in 2009, which made it extremely difficult to get a PR without a JOB offer in canada. i am right ? but i still think australia has better potential than canada in the next decade.
 

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Hi Riza2012,

I would agree with your statement about more people would have applied to Canada compared to Australia. The only reason you see a massive application to Australia now is because the country has made it open due to the skills shortage that they claim exists.

It is pretty difficult to know Australia or Canada's potential in the next decade. I know that some people think that what happens to the economy in one country will not affect their own country's economy. Unfortunately, I think majority of countries are affected. It might not just take longer to be affected.
 

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Canadian view

Hi all,

I've just come across this thread from the newsletter and have read with interest. I am a Canadian who left to work in Australia, and it wasn't because there were not enough jobs. There are plenty of jobs in Canada, in many fields. Doctors and nurses are two of the top careers that Canada is seeking international applicants for in a major way. The problem that some immigrants might face is heavy competition for these jobs in the major cities like Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver. If they are willing to work in smaller cities, rural towns, remote communities - the jobs are a dime a dozen, and the recruitment benefits are often quite high, way more than I received coming to Australia. I have lived in nearly every province and two of the territories in Canada and the situation remained the same in every one of them. If you are looking for a career in business, the situation would be quite different. There is NO shortage of teachers either, so immigrants would be hard pressed to find any work teaching in the schools as many Canadians are hard pressed to get permanent jobs as a teacher. As for the trades - also a reasonable shortage of workers due to the many jobs in the oilsands, diamond mines, and other industry. They will not hire without proper qualifications though. The pay is usually very good and the benefits are stellar. One does not have to live where the job site is, and many companies will fly you in and out from another province to work there on a regular rotation.

I have found Australia to be quite expensive to live in compared to Canada. I live in Alice Springs, and have so far traveled to WA, SA, VIC, and NSW and found it expensive all over. Housing prices are absolutely ridiculous for what you get, particularly in dinky little towns like Alice Springs. In many rural areas of Canada you can buy a huge house on a chunk of waterfront land for under $100,000. You can't even get a granny flat for that here.

I loved working in Canada, and simply came to Australia last year for a different experience, and a place to explore as I had already driven nearly every highway in Canada. I love Australia, but will not stay here indefinitely, even though I've already been given PR. I love my home country and I don't think the economy is doing as badly as some have represented it. Not every province is in the same condition at all. This varies from coast to coast, so one must think about where in Canada they wish to live, and what climate they feel they can manage as the climate varies drastically from one part of Canada to the other. When I lived on Vancouver Island, there was mostly rain all winter, and the temps hovered at about 0-5C. When I lived in Yellowknife, Whitehorse and Labrador - it could drop to -50C or colder in the winter. The first two places normally saw less than 2 feet of snow per year while Labrador's annual snowfall could be about 25 feet.

There is a lot to consider I think when choosing between Canada and Australia and each person probably has different criteria for those choices. I know I thought long and hard about Australia before coming, and have been happy with my choice so far, despite the higher cost.

Good luck to all those out there looking - jump in and do it! Life is too short not to try.
 

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Hi Dreama,
May I ask why you don't feel that you will indefinitely live in Australia even though you have been granted a PR? Is it due to family back home and what you prefer what Canada has to offer?

Everyone's opinion is subjective and is mostly on our experiences and maybe friends' experiences living in the different countries.
 

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All of my family live in Canada, and in particular, my daughter and we have a pact that she won't settle down and have children until I get back from Australia when she is 30 and I am 50, as I promised her once she did, I would move to wherever she is living at the time and be an involved grandma, lol. She isn't sure she even wants children, but I want to be there if she does. I also wanted to go back to university in Canada, so once I've worked here long enough to pay off my current student loans and save for the next degree, I will be ready to head back to Canada. If I want to come back to Australia, I can, as long as I haven't been out of Australia for more than 5 years.


Hi Dreama,
May I ask why you don't feel that you will indefinitely live in Australia even though you have been granted a PR? Is it due to family back home and what you prefer what Canada has to offer?

Everyone's opinion is subjective and is mostly on our experiences and maybe friends' experiences living in the different countries.
 

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Thanks for the explanation. Someone had posted that they have made an update to that 5 yr RRV. I already have a PR visa but just haven't made the move for various reasons. Getting there before the visa expires is on my mind.

If you stay long enough in Australia, would you consider applying for citizenship? That way, you never have to worry about the visa expiring. However, it looks like you want to live near your daughter to be in her life...
 
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