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Are people in the UK aware of how depressed the Spanish economy is?

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housing spain
18K views 160 replies 26 participants last post by  mrypg9 
#1 ·
Just wondering.....and it's raining, third day running.....:(
 
#3 ·
The guy who looks after our pool and garden just came to turn our sprinklers off, was telling me he was over 2000 euros a month worse off as he has lost several clients -he looks after houses, is a general handyman/jack-of-all -trades.
Yep, the outlook is gloomy, economy and weather-wise:spit:
 
#6 ·
Re. your initial question, yes they are....especially those nearest and dearest when I'm whinging on the phone to them!!:rolleyes::D

The weather however here I can't complain about - it's been gorgeous for a while now so at least it means that I can escape for a few hours from all the bad news on the telly/online and faff around outside in the garden!!;)

Tallulah.x
 
#7 ·
I opnly ever get asked about the weather & if the kids are doing well at school

if I try to tell them how bad things are 'crisis' wise here they just say 'well at least you have good weather'


well not at the moment we haven't:mad:
 
#10 ·
I think tv programmes like that'A Place in the Sun' have a lot to answer for. That and the euphoria of holidays with sun, sea etc.
What's that old saying about the grass being greener....?
I would venture the opinion that if you're finding life hard in the UK you'll find it even harder here.
 
#11 · (Edited)
I would venture the opinion that if you're finding life hard in the UK you'll find it even harder here.
Totally agree with that!!!!!! Ok, so we have nice weather in the summer. BUT, at the moment there is very little work, we dont have extended family (in most cases), we dont speak the language or know the system (in most cases) and there is no welfare state to turn to (in most cases), it is no longer much cheaper to live here. So for anyone thinking of coming to Spain for a "better" life, in 99% of cases it isnt gonna be!

I love it here, but its a major struggle right now and we're sooooo close to going back to the UK. School fees are crippling, husband in the UK working most of the time so I'm on my own, I cant get a job, weather turning cold and house expensive to heat, so money very tight! As for the school fees, well ok, I could save a fortune if I put the children into state school, but at 12 and 14 what education would they get, how long would it take for them to learn the language well enough to get good results, exams etc.. and then what for them?? All cos mum wanted to live in Spain????

Jo xxx
 
#12 ·
Morning ..... This is the very reason I asked if anyone thought it was a good idea to have a sticky with articles etc on the current recession here - because I dont believe many people in the UK do realise how bad it is here at the moment, or for that matter in the rest of the World!

I have been staggered at the amount of people I talk to in the UK who seem to think Gordon Brown is the only reason the UK is in a mess - and that the global recession simply isnt as bad as the news makes it out to be .... Im not a political animal and certainly not interested in UK politics so please dont take my G Brown reference as support for him!!! cos it aint!!

In my opinion, emigrating anywhere is a really tough road - even with lots of planning and research - the reality (once the novelty of a new Country has worn off) hits home and many people hit the Earth with a bang!!! :) If you add the biggest recession to hit this generation into that mix then its a scarey road indeed!

I think with most difficulties we face in life we are helped, supported and use the network of friends and family that a lot of us have to get through it - living in a "foreign" Country you are unlikely to have that support network and therefore any personal or professional crisis can seem insurmountable!

Good job we have each other on here :D:D at least we can let off some steam and share worries and concerns if we need to.

Sue :ranger:
 
#13 ·
I hope "would be expats" simply look thru other posts when they find this site and read up on ALL the issues facing them if they were to move over here. At the same time its horrible to spoil dreams, but dreams are what they are - Dreams, which sadly arent usually reality or anything like!

Jo xx
 
#14 ·
Hear hear, wise words indeed from our MODs!
It's the age-old problem of the grass always being greener on the other side, and many people just not realising the downside, as well as the advantages, of moving abroad. I also find that many would-be expats have some personal problems or issues back home which they want to escape from, thinking that moving abroad they can leave all that behind. Wish it were so! The fact is you don't, and you just take your problems with you, and still need to deal with them, perhaps without the support and help of close family and friends, and in a country where you don't speak the language and don't know the ropes.
Relocating abroad is a major move, and should not be undertaken without the most careful thought and preparation.
 
#16 ·
Hi M

I couldnt find any upto date or accurate figures for expats returning to the UK, this article is from May this year, and I am confident things have got much worse since then. Its also interesting to note that the UK Foreign Office only added their "Returning to the UK" page to their website a couple of months ago .... it never used to be there!

Sue :ranger:

For many British expats, their dreams of sun, sand and stress free living have finally clouded over and 100’s are returning home to the rat race and cooler shores they were quick to bid “adios” to in happier times.
The low value of the pound to the euro, the collapse of the Spanish construction industry and the global economic crisis, combine to make Britain a more workable option for many expatriates.
Language and cultural differences, endless red tape and almost parity in living costs, means that some ex-pats yearn for the bosom of their motherland, despite the UK’s deepening recession and changes in the social and political landscape.
The sub-tropical climate and laid-back Spanish lifestyle can not conceal the poor state of the Spanish economy any longer.
Ramsey-Douglas, a removals company based in southern Spain, told Digital Journal:

“Even people who we moved here from the UK quite recently (some only 6 months ago) are returning. The vast majority of our enquiries are currently from people going to the UK from Spain, rather than from the UK to Spain.”

The country’s unemployment figure stands at four million; 17% of the working population, which is more than double the European average. The majority of jobs have been lost in the construction and tourism industries, brought about by the financial meltdown which took a real hold last year.
Louise Cant, Director at Hudson Properties in Marbella explained to Digital Journal:


The main reason is lack of job opportunities and the need to be able to speak Spanish, which many UK ex pats haven't got to grips with.”
“Those who own properties and who are leaving, tend to be families who are forced to return as they cannot afford school fees.”
“Some are selling at lower than bank valuations, often at 40% reduced prices from the peak valuations of 2 years ago. Others are keeping and renting and those with enough equity in their properties, are able to legally hand the property back to the bank with no legal or monetary penalty

.”
House prices depend very much on what the outstanding debts on the properties are, as some owners are in negative equity and cannot sell for less than they owe the bank. Louise adds:

“As a last resort, some are walking away and facing legal repossession with the prospect of bad debt following them.” She continues: “It is generally apparent that there are huge numbers of ex pats leaving as work is scarce and benefits simply do not exist!”.
No new homes have been built for four months by any major developer.

The British Embassy approximate that around one million Britons reside in Spain for part of the year. Many of them choose to remain officially living in Britain for tax or pension reasons so the British authorities still consider them as British residents.
Julie, from Ramsay Douglas added “Even those who have second homes here and just visit for several months of the year are coming less, as everything effectively costs so much more than it did just a year or so ago.”
The British Embassy has posted advice for those returning to the UK on its website; many retirees who had hoped to spend their autumn years enjoying the lower cost of living and better weather have seen the value of their pensions drop by up to 30% due to the lower value of the pound. They now need to re-apply to gain UK status it would seem.
No official or accurate figures exist for those returning to the darker skies of Blighty. Some might argue that the UK is in fact cheaper when it comes to every day living, and of course, your pound may go further than your euro:
Louise added: “The cost of living in Spain is certainly an issue for those who earn sterling especially the pensioners and also families who have resided here whilst the main earner in the house hold continues to work in the UK.”
 
#19 ·
You're all painting a pretty bleak picture!

Other than the obvious financial effect the current situation is having, has the 'atmosphere' changed in Spain.

I guess the 'holiday' season has now ended, so what is the general feel of the place, does it feel grey and misserable, or are people just getting on with it?

Steven
 
#20 ·
Yes, we do seem a miserable bunch dont we!! Sorry! I guess it is partly cos the summer is over and the weather is probably better in the UK at the mo and the sunshine does make eveything seem better!

Things are bad here and it seems that in the last few days the Spanish news seems to be admitting that there are problems here and then theres the exchange rate which is not good if you're funding from the UK.... It doesnt look like its gonna pick up anytime soon either

Jo xxx
 
#23 ·
It's obviously scary times for a lot of people in Spain.

We are comming out in the next couple of weeks to have a good drive around the costas and hopefully speak to expats in the area, I guess we are in a reasonably good position as we don't have to find work when we do eventually come to Spain, however we have changed our mind and decided to rent our UK house rather than sell!

Thanks for the replies, it's interesting to hear from people who are actually living it!
 
#25 ·
Hi Steve

If you dont need to work then your problems are practically non existent :) I would certainly advise renting anyway and keeping hold of the UK house if possible. Renting is good for many reasons ..... you can move relatively easily if you decide a cerrain place isnt for you after a few months - and rents are pretty negotiable at this time of year now the tourist season is more or less finished ... and the vast amount of property that is available.

Enjoy your trip! we do smile a lot of the time you know ! :):)

Sue
 
#36 ·
Seems we are a miserble bunch tho doesnt it! Come over and have a look around, yes, talk to people, you sound like an intelligent chap, so listen out for those who have "been there, done that and are roling in it" take it with a pinch of salt, but at the same time, look around and see how things are to you and how things will be for you and your family! You're not looking to make your living here, so it wont matter too much

Jo xxx
 
#37 ·
We decided to leave the UK and live in various countries to see where we felt happiest.
We have no plans to leave Spain. We're happy here.
But to make out it's all sunshine and cava would be silly, especially for people with lower incomes or who have to find work.
 
#45 ·
I think what Jo said is very true. A lot of people who are struggling here don't like to admit it.
There are also a lot of people who are not what they would like to seem to be.
And on the CDS, especially in the Marbella area, a lot of rather unsavoury types.
One of our former neighbours is currently in prison in Eire for major drug trafficking and another neighbour who is a landscape gardener was complaining about immigrant clients who commission work to the value of thousands of euros and don't pay.
As has been said, you make up your own mind.
 
#46 ·
Hi M

But do you think that the ratio of "unsavoury types" to "decent / honest" people is any higher than it is anywhere else ? Im not disagreeing with you, Im genuinely curious. I just know that living in a biggish City (Sheffield) for many years, there was always a mixture of good, bad, and really nasty types!

Or is it that because we belong to a smaller population here (UK immigrants) that it highlights it to us more when we come across, or read and hear about such unsavoury types ?

I do agree though that everyone has to make up their own minds. I have to say Im a big believer in tolerance and acceptance, and giving people the benefit of the doubt, and maybe thats a little bit idealistic sometimes .... but in all honesty despite that approach I havent suffered in any way as a result. Despite tolerance / acceptance Im not gullible! :)

Sue x
 
#47 ·
Thanks for all the replies.

We are just looking for a nice place to live, nowhere fancy, just a nice area with nice people.

It's been a dream to move away from the UK for a while and probably for different reasons than most people. I have worked hard building up a business for 17 years and now I am ready to have some time to relax and enjoy some time with my family, at least for a couple of years anyway.

Steven
 
#48 ·
Well good on you Steven! I hope you find somewhere that ticks all the right boxes ... if you end up down Estepona way on your visit my OH and I would be happy to say hi if we are around ..... and we are quite normal honest :D

Sue :spit:
 
#52 ·
Inspite of everything, we're really happy here, I may have sounded a bit moserable earlier, but sometimes it does get you down with all the money/exchange rate issues and the economic climate, my husband working away so much...

I love it here, my kids love it here and if we can stay here then we will. It beats being in the UK with al its doom, gloom and miserable weather!!

Jo xxx
 
#66 ·
I think someone else posted a link to that report on another thread ... if its the same one it does make for depressing reading! however, I did see the article in the UK press and there were many comments as to the validity and balance of its opinion due to the beliefs and political leanings of the author!!!

Sue
 
#67 ·
Interesting article from the Daily Telegraph 24th September.


Spain tips into depression
Spain is sliding into a full-blown economic depression with unemployment approaching levels not seen since the Second Republic of the 1930s and little chance of recovery until well into the next decade, according to a clutch of reports over recent days.


Bull run is over: Spain is sliding into a full-blown economic depression akin to that seen in the 1930s Photo: AP The Madrid research group RR de Acuña & Asociados said the collapse of Spain's building industry will cause the economy to contract for the next three years, with a peak to trough loss of over 11pc of GDP. The grim forecast is starkly at odds with claims by premier Jose Luis Zapatero, who still says Spain's recession will be milder than elsewhere in Europe.

RR de Acuña said the overhang of unsold properties on the market, or still being built, has reached 1,623,000 . This dwarfs annual demand of 218,000, and will take six or seven years to clear. The group said Spain's unemployment will peak at around 25pc, comparable to the worst chapter of the Great Depression.


UK unemployment expected to have risenSpanish workers typically receive 50pc to 60pc of their former pay for eighteen months after losing their job. Then the guillotine falls. Spain's parliament has rushed through a law guaranteeing €420 a month for long-term unemployed, but this will not prevent a social crisis if the slump drags on.

Separately, UBS said unemployment will reach 4.8m and may go as high as 5.4m if the job purge in the service sector gathers pace. There is the growing risk of a "Lost Decade" akin to Japan's malaise after the Nikkei bubble.

Roberto Ruiz, the bank's Spain strategist, said salaries must fall by 10pc in real terms to regain lost competitiveness, replicating the sort of wage squeeze seen in Germany after reunification.

There is no sign yet that either Spanish trade unions or the Zapatero government are ready for such draconian measures. Talks between the unions and Spain's industry federation (CEOE) broke down in acrimony in July.

Mr Ruiz said the construction sector will shrink from 18pc of GDP at the peak of the boom to around 5pc, making it unlikely that there will be any significant recovery before 2012. Even then growth will be "slow, weak, and fragile".

The Spanish government can do little to cushion the downturn. "The room for manouvre in fiscal policy has been exhausted," said Mr Ruiz.

The rocketing cost of jobless benefits has added 3pc of GDP to the budget deficit. Mr Zapatero has ordered all ministries to cut 8pc of discretionary spending to help plug the gap left by collapsing tax revenues. The axe is likely to fall on research and big projects such as high-speed railways.

The root cause of Spain's trouble is that it joined monetary union before its economy was ready. EMU halved Spanish interest rates almost overnight. Real rates were minus 2pc for much of this decade. Combined private and corporate debt reached 230pc of GDP, funded by French and German savings.

The credit boom masked a steady decline in productivity over the last decade. Spain's unit labour costs have risen by about 30pc compared to Germany.

The Bank of Spain made heroic efforts to counter the effects of the bubble by forcing banks to put aside extra reserves, known as dynamic provisioning, but the sheer scale of the problem has washed over the defences.

Spain no longer has the escape valve of devaluation to claw back market share. It cannot resort to emergency monetary stimulus – as Switzerland, Britain, the US, and Japan are doing to prevent the onset of debt deflation. Prices are already falling at a rate of 1.2pc.

Jamie Dannhauser from Lombard Street Research said Spain is bearing the full brunt of the European Central Bank's restrictive monetary policy, which has caused private sector credit in the eurozone to shrink over the last six months.

The latest ECB data shows that 60pc of Spanish firms have seen access to credit fall so far this year. Most say they have been denied their full request for loans or credit lines.

Mr Dannhauser said Spain faces the same sort of boom-bust headache as Britain. The big difference is that Spain cannot let the exchange rate take the strain. "It is going to be very hard for them to sort this out in a currency union."

For the time being, an odd calm prevails across the Iberian peninsular. There are no street riots, even though youth unemployment has reached 38pc. It is hard to imagine anything like the bloody uprising by Asturian miners in 1934, the last time so many people were without jobs.

Local communities have started to issue scrip currency known as "moneda social", based on reflation experiments tried by Austrian cantons in 1932 and more recently by Argentina. Yet few blame the crisis on the effects of the euro. There is a near total backing for EMU, in contrast to France and Germany where a small but vocal minority has never accepted the wisdom of Europe's one-size-fits-all system.

Membership of the EU and the euro is inextracably linked in Spain's collective mind to the country's re-emergence as a modern, dynamic European power after the stultifying isolation of the Franco dictatorship. It would take a major trauma to test that bond.
 
#68 ·
Hi Sandie
This is the report other people have referred to - and yes it is the one I read comments on in the UK media yesterday suggesting that the author of the report/article is not that well thought of in terms of his opinions re Spain and the EU ..... apparently he has written many scathing articles on Spain previously.

Im hoping it is a digruntled Author making things sound worse than they are ! I cant begin to contemplate the alternative!

Sue :ranger:
 
#70 ·
Hmm....have just done some quick research on the author, Ambrose Pritchard-Evans, and he does seem to be a right-wing anti-EU UKIP type.
He has written for right-wing US publications dishing dirt on the Clintons and flagging up conspiracy theories about the Oklahoma bombing. (It was the FBI wot dun it).
But I think the general thrust of his carticle is valid as facts and figures seem to accord with his assertions .
Not even right-wing conspiracy theory nut-jobs are wrong all the time;)
 
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