[JMHouse]

Hi

I've just read another post for another Australian applying for carte vitale however our situation is different as we have submitted a tax return.

We moved to France in March 2016. We do not have health insurance as we were made aware that we could apply for a CV after 3 months of living here. We were also advised that we would need to show them our French tax return with our application which is why we have waited until now.

Are there fines for not having health insurance?

Our only income is our interest earned on foreign income. We declared this income on our January 2016 to December 2016 tax return and have now received a bill for 15.5 percent social security charges.

Can we just submit this one tax return with our application? The one from the year before will obviously have a higher earning amount as we were working and do not want to pay based on this amount.

Do we have to pay a further 8 percent on top of the 15.5 percent paid in social security? Note this is is interest on income and not salary. Or are we deemed "low income" and do not have to pay anything extras we are not officially earning a salary?

We are both originally from the UK so are here on European passports however all other aspects of our lives are Australian in case there are any queries as to why we do not have health insurance for VISAs.

Any help and advice would be appreciated.

Cheers
Jo

 

[DejW]

I'm no expert, others here will help.

Three comments...

1. To start the CV process you need to go to your local CPAM office.


2. If you are eligible for UK NHS treatment then it's probably better to present yourselves as '"British" with connection in OZ

3. No help to you, I'm afraid....but when I came to France in 2001 getting a CV was fairly simple. Since then they've tightened up the requirements....probably like most countries!

DejW

 

[95995]

Hi

I've just read another post for another Australian applying for carte vitale however our situation is different as we have submitted a tax return.

We moved to France in March 2016. We do not have health insurance as we were made aware that we could apply for a CV after 3 months of living here. We were also advised that we would need to show them our French tax return with our application which is why we have waited until now.

Are there fines for not having health insurance?

Our only income is our interest earned on foreign income. We declared this income on our January 2016 to December 2016 tax return and have now received a bill for 15.5 percent social security charges.

Can we just submit this one tax return with our application? The one from the year before will obviously have a higher earning amount as we were working and do not want to pay based on this amount.

Do we have to pay a further 8 percent on top of the 15.5 percent paid in social security? Note this is is interest on income and not salary. Or are we deemed "low income" and do not have to pay anything extras we are not officially earning a salary?

We are both originally from the UK so are here on European passports however all other aspects of our lives are Australian in case there are any queries as to why we do not have health insurance for VISAs.

Any help and advice would be appreciated.

Cheers
Jo

Firstly, even as inactive EU citizens, you are required to have health insurance on arrival - so for you that would have been private health insurance (assuming neither of you is receiving a UK OAP. Expect to be asked about your current health cover and to be rejected if you don't have any (on the basis that you would currently be classified as 'irregular' in terms of your immigration status). I would suggest you take out private health insurance now for, say, 3-6 months, and once you have your policy in hand apply to join the French health system. (Interestingly, proof of you current health cover is not required and it is not mentioned on the application form, BUT you should expect to be asked about it. In my case, they phoned me, but that was several years ago,)

In terms of income, you are supposed to declare your worldwide income for the previous French tax year (i.e. 1.1.2016 to 31.12.2016). Assuming that you arrived in France some time during 2016 and your French avis doesn't include, you can submit an 'attestation' of your income for 2016 prior to your arrival (CPAM staff can help you write this if need be). However your French tax declaration may suffice (just be prepared to have to declare any other income for the year).

The 8% fee applies to income over approx. 9,600 Euros and income up to that amount is not taken into account when calculating your contributions. The 8% is over and above the 15.5% charges (or whatever proportion of 15.5% is applicable to you personally).

Can't comment on what you would actually pay, but remember that you are required to be able to fund your stay, even as EU citizens.

Hope this helps.

Cheers


This link explains what documents you need to present and has a link to the application form. Note that you don't need to have birth certificates in English translated, but you do need a recent long-form version of your birth certificates issued by the UK Govt https://www.gov.uk/order-copy-birth-death-marriage-certificate

 

[Bevdeforges]

I'm also not an expert on this - but the 15.5% you were charged on your tax declaration is a sort of tax surcharge and has little or nothing to do with social charges as such. (Well, it does, and it's often referred to as "cotisations" but it doesn't go toward your CPAM enrollment.)

This page from Service Public has some explanation of the PUMA coverage: https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F34308

As Dej mentioned, you need to contact your local CPAM to start the application process for enrollment in the national system if that's what you want to do. They'll tell you what documents you need to provide - and the process will take a few months to complete. But the assessment to cover the basic program is based on your prior year's income less a threshold amount of around 9,000€ or so. You will also need to consider finding a mutuelle to cover medical expenses that the national program doesn't reimburse.

There may be some complications involved, based on your having UK nationality, but having come from Australia, so being ineligible for a UK S-1. These sorts of anomalies tend to throw the clerks, but you're far from the first folks to present with this "challenge." By rights, you probably should have had private cover since your arrival, but I have yet to hear of anyone being penalized or fined in your circumstances for this. Take things one step at a time and it may all run more smoothly than you expect.
Cheers,
Bev

 

[Robert Best]

The posts I have read above are helpful, but I note that they were all written a few years back. Does anybody have any experience of applying for a CV this year ?
I am English, and my wife is Swiss. We've just moved to Var.
Robert Best

 

[Brit (really)]

What is your situation? Are you employed, self employed, early retired (inactiff), retired, a student? How you apply for health cover depends on which of the above you are. Without knowing that it's difficult to offer advice.

 

[Bevdeforges]

As with most administrative processes in France, the exact procedure is an ever-moving target. Your best bet is to look at the website for the CPAM for your area and see what they have to say about applying for PUMA.

This is the Ameli info on PUMA: https://www.ameli.fr/essonne/assure/droits-demarches/principes/protection-universelle-maladie

And just to clarify, the idea of taking your tax assessment in with you is to determine the base on which the 8% will be assessed. The 15.5% you paid on foreign source interest income does not constitute any sort of a payment for the national health program. We all pay that.

But don't delay any longer about applying for PUMA. The process can take "several" months.
Cheers,
Bev

 

[Bevdeforges]

As with most administrative processes in France, the exact procedure is an ever-moving target. Your best bet is to look at the website for the CPAM for your area and see what they have to say about applying for PUMA.

This is the Ameli info on PUMA: https://www.ameli.fr/essonne/assure/droits-demarches/principes/protection-universelle-maladie

And just to clarify, the idea of taking your tax assessment in with you is to determine the base on which the 8% will be assessed. The 15.5% you paid on foreign source interest income does not constitute any sort of a payment for the national health program. We all pay that.

But don't delay any longer about applying for PUMA. The process can take "several" months.
Cheers,
Bev

 

[DejW]

RobertB

You have correctly identified an interesting problem in this forum. For us expats who arrived some time (see below) ago, our experience is deep, broad and probably horribly out of date.

It would be interesting to hear from recent arrivals who have perhaps less, but much more recent experience of arriving in France.

PS....I'm sure Bev arrived before the French Revolution, so deep is her knowledge! :fingerscrossed: :fingerscrossed:

DejW

The posts I have read above are helpful, but I note that they were all written a few years back. Does anybody have any experience of applying for a CV this year ?
I am English, and my wife is Swiss. We've just moved to Var.
Robert Best

 

[95995]

The posts I have read above are helpful, but I note that they were all written a few years back. Does anybody have any experience of applying for a CV this year ?
I am English, and my wife is Swiss. We've just moved to Var.
Robert Best

There are posts on this Forum from people in various circumstances who have recently applied and/or been accepted this year. For some it has been a lengthy process, for others it's been pretty quick. I would suggest you dig around the forum a bit - maybe search for PUMA, Carte Vitale, health cover (although, as always, some of those posts are in threads that are/were originally about different topics. Not much has changed, though, since PUMA was introduced, other than that the process is now clearer. If you are inactif, the process is the same for everyone, even if individual staff members might interpret the requirements somewhat differently. For inactifs it is now a one-size fits all system.

Also you will find that lots of posters have arrived from non-EU countries (sometimes via are other EU/EEA countries, without a visa because they have passports from EU countries. It's not an unusual circumstance

 

[Brit (really)]

As with most administrative processes in France, the exact procedure is an ever-moving target. Your best bet is to look at the website for the CPAM for your area and see what they have to say about applying for PUMA.

This is the Ameli info on PUMA: https://www.ameli.fr/essonne/assure/droits-demarches/principes/protection-universelle-maladie

And just to clarify, the idea of taking your tax assessment in with you is to determine the base on which the 8% will be assessed. The 15.5% you paid on foreign source interest income does not constitute any sort of a payment for the national health program. We all pay that.

But don't delay any longer about applying for PUMA. The process can take "several" months.
Cheers,
Bev

PUMA is not the correct way to proceed if you are working. Bevdeforgets has jumped to the conclusion that you are inactiff.

 

[95995]

PUMA is not the correct way to proceed if you are working. Bevdeforgets has jumped to the conclusion that you are inactiff.

However, the OP stated in the first post on this thread

Our only income is our interest earned on foreign income.

So one would naturally presume that they are not working.

 

[Brit (really)]

However, the OP stated in the first post on this thread



So one would naturally presume that they are not working.

Oh come on! Read the thread before jumping to conclusions.
My answer was for Robert Best who has piggybacked on this topic not the OP who posted a long time ago. He has not stated how he earns his income.
I'd naturally presumed that other posters would have seen the big picture not just try to score points.

 

[Bevdeforges]

Oh come on! Read the thread before jumping to conclusions.
My answer was for Robert Best who has piggybacked on this topic not the OP who posted a long time ago. He has not stated how he earns his income.
I'd naturally presumed that other posters would have seen the big picture not just try to score points.

Oh, come on. If the person asking the question were working in some capacity, they would have no need of signing up for the national system. (At least if they were working legally in France.) As an employee, the employer would be involved in them getting a CV and if "self-employed" that comes into the registration process for the business.

Could we stop picking nits and get back to the discussion at hand?
Cheers,
Bev

 

[Brit (really)]

Oh, come on. If the person asking the question were working in some capacity, they would have no need of signing up for the national system. (At least if they were working legally in France.) As an employee, the employer would be involved in them getting a CV and if "self-employed" that comes into the registration process for the business.

Could we stop picking nits and get back to the discussion at hand?
Cheers,
Bev

I disagree. But you have more power than me do I presume you will win. It's not nit picking it's practical advice by someone who has been through the system in the recent past. Actually with French administration nit picking is the way forward. Tick all the boxes and everything flows smoothly, make one mistake or try to cut one corner and the computer will say no. If and when the poster tells us his position we will be able to offer him the best advice. Until then my point of view is as valid as your own.

 

[Bevdeforges]

What I'm objecting to here is the parsing of posts down to the selection of words. No one here has to tell us any more about their situation than they choose to. And we have many posters who limit their disclosures for very good reasons - or for no particular reasons at all. Add to that, many posters are not necessarily native English speakers, or may not be aware of all the myriad circumstances and conditions that may apply in resolving their issues.

The advice here is general in nature and ultimately it's the responsibility of anyone acting on advice given out here to check the specifics. After all, they are the ones who will bear the consequences of whatever they choose to do.
Cheers,
Bev

 

[Brit (really)]

What I'm objecting to here is the parsing of posts down to the selection of words. No one here has to tell us any more about their situation than they choose to. And we have many posters who limit their disclosures for very good reasons - or for no particular reasons at all. Add to that, many posters are not necessarily native English speakers, or may not be aware of all the myriad circumstances and conditions that may apply in resolving their issues.

The advice here is general in nature and ultimately it's the responsibility of anyone acting on advice given out here to check the specifics. After all, they are the ones who will bear the consequences of whatever they choose to do.
Cheers,
Bev

Again, if people want good advice they have to supply the facts. I'd always presumed that that was what all those, 'I'm asking for a friend...' posts were about.
Vocabulary is important. I understand that we are dealing with several different nationalities with their own take on English and that in itself can cause problems. Years ago in Germany I had an American friend who insisted on translating 'I want' not ''I would like' when ordering and couldn't see that in German the latter was the right way and the other was seen as abrupt and rude.

 

[JMHouse]

What is your situation? Are you employed, self employed, early retired (inactiff), retired, a student? How you apply for health cover depends on which of the above you are. Without knowing that it's difficult to offer advice.

Hi Brit - we are early retirees. We only earn interest on our money in Australia as our source of income - cheers Jo

 

[JMHouse]

PUMA is not the correct way to proceed if you are working. Bevdeforgets has jumped to the conclusion that you are inactiff.

We are inactive - early retirees

 

[Brit (really)]

We are inactive - early retirees

Thank you, I always knew that. You made it very clear in your original post.
The confusion arose after Robert Best piggybacked on your thread. He is also after a Carte Vitale but has not given his position re employment. Telling him to apply through PUMA was inappropriate. What has frustrated me was that the confusion on this thread was carried over to another that I had contributed to.
I am in exactly your situation. I have my health cover through PUMA which was pretty straightforward. I dealt with the application in person at my nearest CPAM office and any potential problems were dealt with there and then.
Good luck, I hope that your experience goes as smoothly as my own did.