[OrangesYeah]

Hi, we have a small apartment in Lisbon and would like to have a/c in the bedroom. I know we can search and find dozens of people/companies that will do this but I was hoping that someone could give me a recommendation. Thanks.

 

[In 2 bikes]

Just bought ours from www.Worten.Pt......

Worten are everywhere. They came out for 20 euros to size up the job (literally). Their technical inspection looked at the best places to mount the units, the nearest electric supply for them and the BTU requirements needed for the volume of air you want cooling.

You then go back to Worten and choose the units you want to match the needs suggested and also one of the varying installation packages.

You then choose the installation price / package you want too as they come in three levels;- Standard is a fitment without fancy extras. The next level ( another 60 euros ) adds extra warranty ( 2 years ) on the INSTALLATION part. The higher level includes two visits over 2 years to check your system.

We then chose, for 39 euros, the extra warranty the equipment, taking it from the obligatory 2 years to 5.

Total bill for us was 618 euros for the air con plus extended warranties and including the installation fee, we then have the 5 years warranty on all parts and 2 years on the installation side of things ( such as poor workmanship leading to a fault )

Once you chosen all the toys, it gets delivered and fitted.

Word of warning....It is against E.U. and Portuguese law to have any old odd-job chaps / chapesses fit air con now because of the environmentally dangerous gasses involved. The workers have to be certificated like gas and elec guys.

I'd go with the professionals and load up the warranty cover.

 

[OrangesYeah]

Thanks for your helpful reply In 2 Bikes.
Yes, Worten is a possibility but as we only visit Lisbon for 2 or 3 days at a time I'd prefer someone to come who'd do it in less stages. For example I would have thought that we could choose the unit first as we know the volume of air in the bedroom.
It's very useful that you told us that we couldn't do it ourselves (as we had considered!) so many thanks for that info too.

 

[Eddward]

Air conditioning Unit

Bom Dia,

I was an electrician and air conditioning engineer in England until 2013. I now live in Portugal and am pursuing a different career. I am not trying to sell my services, just offering a little advice regarding your installation. Firstly, I don't know any companies in Lisbon, as I've only been here since April. However, a few considerations that may be of help:

The amount of cooling required can be calculated as 500BTU/m2 of floor space, for an average environment. So, if your room was 4m x 4m, thats 16m2. 500BTU x 16 is 8000 BTU. So this gives you an approximate capacity requirement, from which you can select an aircon unit. If the room gets direct sun through windows during the day, you will want to increase this number. Direct sunlight heating a room can require an enormous amount of power to cool. However, if it's for cooling at night to sleep, the above figures work really well. Also, unusually high ceilings or other obvious room abnormalities need to be considered.

The other thing I would advise is to buy a decent system. In a bedroom where you're trying to sleep, most people don't want their aircon to be noisy, or click randomly all through the night. Good, branded systems from the main manufacturers are, in my experience, much better than the generic, re-branded units. Some decent manufacturers are: Daikin, LG, Fujitsu, Samsung, Panasonic. There are of course many others.

You're right to be looking for a recommendation. Installing air conditioning well is quite difficult, and specialist equipment is required to not make a real hash of it.

I know this is off topic slightly, but hopefully it will help with the process.

Regards,
Edd

 

[In 2 bikes]

just another small point. When we bought our house it only had a low mains / master circuit breaker and it only took a kettle plus two other things to trip the switch all the time. Our first assessment for air con did not take the 'power draw' of the unit in to account as they didn't look at our home's power capability.

We've had the whole situation resolved now by having the elec company sort our power supply and ability. But it might be worth re-visiting the maths around your potential total AMP power demand, ( air con at full chat + a dishwasher + oven etc ) versus your mains fuse / trip rating.

 

[OrangesYeah]

Thanks for the advice Edd. The bedroom is only about 12 m2 so that makes a 6000 BTU unit - hard to find one that small!

I intend to buy a good make but I am confused about the units for sale on Worten online only as they only mention the interior part - size, weight etc, so I'm not sure if the outside box is included in the price. I shall go to their shop tomorrow and ask. There's a huge variation in price even of the same brand which is also confusing.

In 2 Bikes, Are you taking the potencia contracted? If so, it is something I am aware of, but my one previous experience of a/c is that they don't use much power although the units I've looked at on Worten don't say the power needed! BTW, the €618 you spent, did that including the extended warranties as you wrote plus and that confused me (getting confused a lot today!). Thanks

 

[In 2 bikes]

Oranges..

In 2 Bikes, Are you taking the potencia contracted? - Yep, I'm sure that's one and the same

I've looked at on Worten don't say the power needed! - There's an on line BTU to watts, therefore Amps conversion thingy. just google it.

BTW, the €618 you spent, did that including the extended warranties as you wrote plus and that confused me (getting confused a lot today!). Thanks - Yep, all in = 618 euros. That being a 12000 BTU Becken interior and exterior unit at 399 then 179 euros installation price giving 2 years warranty on workmanship and then 39 euros for an extra 3 years on the units,

Also, a lot of the prices you see at Worten and other places are just the internal unit....

 

[OrangesYeah]

Thanks In 2 Bikes. I went to our local Worten and it's so small they don't even do air con! Emailed the website and I think you did well, they pointed me to an outside Samsung unit for 1200€!

 

[In 2 bikes]

Thanks In 2 Bikes. I went to our local Worten and it's so small they don't even do air con! Emailed the website and I think you did well, they pointed me to an outside Samsung unit for 1200€!

eeeeeek ! This is ours from Worten and included the outside unit for 399..Becken is their own brand

https://www.worten.pt/inicio/grande...ar-condicionado-inverter-becken-i-12btu.html#

 

[In 2 bikes]

I'm starting to think we, either, got a great deal and the web site has changed the prices this week, or, our Worten have made a mistake and only charged us for the interior unit but supplied and fitted both.

 

[OrangesYeah]

No, I looked at the link and the Becken does include both units for 399 (the dimensions of both are in the spec).
Can I ask if you are happy with it, especially the noise level, as it may be the best model for us as we don't want to spend stupid money as we're not there that much.

 

[Eddward]

Air conditioning

Hi Oranges,

Yeah I just looked on the Worten site, and it is not clear what you get for your money. In terms of the power consumption, it is a little complicated because air conditioning runs at over 100% efficiency. This is because it moves heat around, rather than creating it. As a rough estimate, a smallish unit will draw 8-10 amps at 110v. I would advise an Inverter unit, as they are quieter and much more efficient. "Inverter" refers to a device inside the outdoor unit that allows the system to run faster or slower depending on demand, and is not related to being able to vary the fan speed of the internal unit. Most new units are "Inverter" units. Beware that some systems use older technology to save money.

 

[Eddward]

Air con

Just looked at the link for the Becken onefrom In Two Bikes. It appears to be Inverter driven. I had a quick look to see who makes them for Worten, but couldn't find anything. As it is 12000BTU, I would expect it draws about 12 amps.

 

[In 2 bikes]

No, I looked at the link and the Becken does include both units for 399 (the dimensions of both are in the spec).
Can I ask if you are happy with it, especially the noise level, as it may be the best model for us as we don't want to spend stupid money as we're not there that much.

The inside unit absolutely whispers. When the guys finished installing it they had it running on a test and had left the front door open and a window. The outside temp was 28 and within minutes it had cut the room down to a very, very pleasant atmosphere. Our thermostat ( for the central heating ) dropped from high 20's to 19 impressively quickly. My wife actually complained about a cold forehead within the hour.

The directional wing and 'turbo' functions are truly superb. There's even a timer set up so you can program an on /off for when you get in from work or to shut off after you've been asleep for a desired period of time.

I am going to buy another one for another room. It's absolutely top drawer stuff...plus the remote control looks ace.....You won't regret it.

 

[In 2 bikes]

Hi Oranges,

As a rough estimate, a smallish unit will draw 8-10 amps at 110v. .

I think we're all on 220v in mainland Portugal which changes the power ( Amps ) rating.

here comes the blokey bit........

1 BTU/hr = 0.00029307107 kW

BTU/hr to kilowatts conversion formula

The power in kilowatts P(kW) is equal to the power in BTUIT per hour P(BTU/hr) divided by 3412.142: P(kW) = P(BTU/hr) / 3412.142

Example
Convert 12000 BTU/hr to kilowatts:
P(kW) = 12000 BTU/hr / 3412.142 = 3.5kW rounded up the the nearest give a toss.

AMPS = WATTS / VOLTS

therefore;-

3500 watts / 220 amps = 16 amps......max draw ( on full chat )

...................... I think .............................​

Oooooooooops , I've just noticed Ed that you know this stuff already ;-)

 

[OrangesYeah]

Thanks guys for all your help.

If we can manage to arrange it with Worten I think we'll go for the 9000 BTU Becken as it's for a very small room.

Thanks again.