[fatworm]

Hi everyone,

I have one more semester left before graduating my BSc. I'm planning to have my degree assessed by the ACS after that (under the recent graduate category). If I get a positive assessment, then I will have 65 points. So now everything will depend on whether ACS will accept my degree.

On the ACS website, the information about closely related degrees is very vague. So I need some advice about whether my degree is relevant enough:

I'm doing a BSc with Computer Science major and Maths minor at the ANU. By the end of the degree I will have done the following ICT courses:

100-Level:
Introduction to Programming and Algorithms
Introduction to Software Systems

200-Level:
Introduction to Computer Systems
Formal Methods in Software Engineering
Concurrent and Distributed Systems

300-Level:
Algorithms
Operating Systems Implementation
Advanced Databases and Data Mining
Theory of Computation

I read that my degree needs to have at least one year of ICT content (which is 8 courses at my uni). I will have done 9 so I hope that's enough. But I'm not too sure which ANZSCO I should nominate? At the moment I'm thinking that "Developer Programmer" is the best fit.

Also there is clause on ACS that says the ICT content must progress through all years of the program. Does this mean that I need to do at least one ICT course in every single semester? I didn't actually do any ICT course in my first semester of uni - would this matter?

So in short: given my BSc and using Developer Programmer as my nominated occupation, do you think that I will have a good chance of getting a positive result? If anyone here who's had experience with the process can help me and see if I'm on the right track, that would be great.

 

[espresso]

Hi fatworm,

a computer science bachelor from ANU with a maths major should be good enough, as far as I can tell from afar. And some maths courses such as Linear Algebra or Logic are found on many computer science curricula as well, so you should be able to count more subjects towards ICT content.

I guess, you could also contact ACS or ANU and ask politely if graduates from your particular program were or would be considered suitable for assessment as recent graduate. They usually shy away from giving any opinion before formal assessment but it cannot hurt. Worst case: They'll send you a friendly rebuff and you'll know as much as you do now .

I'm a bit curious how you arrive at 65 points, though. Are you planning to claim points for work experience as well? In that case you should be careful because DIAC usually only counts work experience after your highest degree (= point in time when you became "skilled" in their opinion).

All the best,
Monika

 

[fatworm]

Thanks for that. Yeah it would great if I could count some of my Maths courses as well.

Regarding the points, I should get 25 points for age, 20 for IELTS 8 (very happy with my IELTS results!), 15 for having a Bachelor degree, and 5 for studying in Australia. That should be 65 in total. I haven't got any full time job yet, so can't claim points for work experience.

As I said before, the only thing I need now is a positive assessment of the BSc. I suppose I just have to wait to finish my degree and hope for the best

 

[espresso]

Hi fatworm,

kudos to your great IELTS result - you can indeed be proud! The points break-down makes sense, so you should be all set. All the best for your bachelor thesis and the upcoming finals and let us know how the ACS assessment went .

Cheerio,
Monika

 

[fatworm]

By the way, there is still one thing that makes me a bit concerned. Part of the requirements for an ICT major is that the "ICT content must progress through all years of the program". Does it mean that there must be at least one ICT course in every single semester or does it mean every year?

I didn't do any ICT-related courses in my first semester of undergraduate studies - would this make my degree unsuitable straightaway? (I have however done at least one ICT course in every semester after that.)

Is there anyone here who didn't do an ICT course in one semester and still get a positive assessment?

 

[espresso]

Hi fatworm,

as already mentioned I think you might be able to identify some subjects that would be considered ICT related on closer inspection in your first semester. Since you thought about applying in the developer programmer / software engineering ANZSCO group, you might want to have a look at the ACM Curriculum Guidelines for Undergraduate Degree Programs in Software Engineering - the document is really long, but from section 4.7 onwards they give a super detailed description what a Software Engineer should know (at least in their opinion ). Section 4.9 describes Mathematical and Engineering Fundamentals and I'm sure you'll find subjects in your first (and higher) semesters that match the description (Functions, Relations and Sets; Proof techniques; Basic Logic; Finite State Machines; etc.).

All the best and don't worry too much,
Monika

 

[frodo12]

I find terms like 'ICT major' / 'ICT minor' equally vague as well. I am not able to understand which subjects in my degree qualify towards ICT. BTW I have a bachelor's in telecommunication engineering. Even though I have found vague references in other parts of this forum about my degree, I have not found any concrete response yet Dont know whether I should go for a general skills assessment or a RPL.

 

[espresso]

Hi frodo12,

the concept of academic majors/minors is more established in the United States and Canada. If the concept is unknown in your country (or field of study) you will have to do the maths. As stated in the ACS Skills Assessment Guide:

A major in a Bachelor degree must have a minimum of two equivalent full-time semesters of ICT content. Such ICT content must progress through all years of the program with at least one third of it being at a demonstrably advanced level (final year level).

For a minor (sub-major) for a Bachelor degree the ICT content must be at least 20%.

You can look at curricula recommendations such as the one from ACM linked above or by looking at the ACS Key Areas of Knowledge to gauge what would be considered ICT content and if your education fulfills these criteria.

The problem is that education systems and study programs vary widely across the word. Some bachelor programs take two years, others three or even four and new forms of study such as distance learning or part-time degree courses have emerged. Even within the European Union, comparing different degrees between countries was rather difficult until the mid-2000s, when the European Credit Transfer System found more widespread use.

Moreover, even within a certain field or discipline (for example: Software Engineering), universities set different priorities and have different strengths to position themselves on the "market". It also depends on the current faculty and their research interest which should - ideally - flow back into teaching. Some Software Engineering programs might have a stronger base in mathematics (statistics, logic, proofs and complexity theory etc.), others offer excellent courses on artificial intelligence, some have more embedded programming others focus on web technologies. It's a proper zoo out there .

Unless somebody has studied the exact same program like you and got positive assessment from ACS it is very hard to tell, whether your specific program (plus electives you might have taken) will get assessed as having a major/minor in computing. Only you can do at by looking through the curriculum and adding up hours .

One more tip: Let's say you apply for assessment via the normal (non-RPL) route and the assessor thinks that your bachelor does not fulfill the ICT minor requirement. If you have the required years of work experience (6) for an RPL application, (s)he will usually advise to change your application to RPL. You'll have to do the project report then but the good thing is that they only ask you to pay an additional 50AUD for the re-assessment. You could also do the RPL now, but note that DIAC will only count work experience post-qualification...
Source: ACS RPL FAQ

All the best,
Monika

 

[frodo12]

Thanks Monika for your response. Really helpful, informative and makes a lot of sense.

 

[jayptl]

to comments
Hi my name is Jay,

I am seeking help with migration to Aus. I am from India.My age is 29.

I just assessed my australian degree with ACS as Developer Programmar, but I forgot to assess my overseas exmployment in last ten years from 2005 to 2008 that suits to System Administrator or Software tester .

Before applying to new application to ACS, I want to seek guidence from you that which ANZCO code should I apply for assessment?

I await your prompt response.

kind regards,
Jay

 

[espresso]

Hi Jay,

that's a no-brainer: If you can scrape together 60+ points with the Developer Programmer (261312) ANZCO code, you should apply for a 189 visa with that occupation code. Developer Programmer is on schedule 1 of the CSOL.

Systems Administrator (262113) and Software Tester (261314) are both on schedule 2 of the CSOL - so you will need state/territory or employer sponsorship to apply for a skilled migration visa, even if you have enough points for an independent visa. So you would have to wait for ACS re-assessment, apply for state sponsorship (or find an employer willing to sponsor) and wait for the nomination to come through... that amounts to another couple of months of waiting before you can even submit your EOI.

All the best,
Monika

 

[jayptl]

Thnx for prompt guidence Monica.:clap2:

I really appreciate for your response.

I am still in dilemma that Should I assessment again to assess my experience. Morever, My experience was prior to my Australian Degree, and if yes which ANZCO code will I use? according to state nomination? If Anzco removed from state nomination withing few months than??.

Will ACS and DIAC approve my experience as suitable professional level?

Eventhough company where I was working is not IT company, but I used to work as IT guy. But Employer is ready to write duties like I used to work, even I used to work on cash money, so I dont have any payslip, bank statement etc.??

Even I went through many agent and people, but I am so frustrated to be provided appropriate answer.

Again Thank You very much Monica.

 

[jayptl]

Morever,

Age; 30
Qualification 15
Aus quali 5
NSW state spon 5
totall= 55

Still lack of 5 points to obtain from work experience.


My email is

[email protected]

 

[espresso]

Hi jayptl,

First: Please remove your mail address - this is a public forum so you might get swamped with spam mail . Send it via PM if you need to.

Second: Consider this:

• Only work closely related to your nominated ANZSCO code will be considered (whichever you choose). Plus: Your education should also be closely related to your nominated code.
• DIAC usually does NOT count work experience prior to your highest degree (if you submitted it for skills assessment and want to claim points). It's a dilemma... you could get re-assessed by ACS as tester/systems admin and only submit your bachelor degree. If all goes well you can claim points for your bachelor, work experience and Australian degree. However, you will need to re-apply for state sponsorship, because you switched ANZSCO codes...
• Having worked in ICT at a company whose core business is not in IT is not an issue. However, if you have no payslips, bank statements etc. your work experience evidence is a bit shaky, to say the least.

All in all there are too many what-ifs in your scenario for me.

Best option that comes to mind: Go for regional sponsorship (489) - it may not be ideal but will get you another 5 points. After living in regional NSW for two years and working there for at least one year you can apply for a permanent visa.

All the best,
Monika

 

[jayptl]

Hi Monica,

Thank you very much for guidence it really helps me a lot.

As you said DIAC or may be ACS generally approves and consider work experience after highest Degree. Coz my experience was after my overseas qualification and before higher degree.

I am thinking to assess again and taking risk of $450 whether its approved or not?

Let see.

Thnx again,

 

[jayptl]

Well sorry to send msg u again Monica


I recently saw NSW sponsor ship list 489 visa as SYSTEM ADMINISTRATOR listed

as ORANA suburbs of NSW.

but my recent Australian Graduation is assessed as Developer Programmar? Is it acceptable to apply through ACS under System Adminc ANZCO code or I need to assess System Admin code again through ACS.

Again I am in major confusion.

 

[espresso]

Hi jayptl,

unfortunately, you need to be assessed in the ANZSCO code you wish to apply for. You need to get re-assessed as Systems Administrator if you want to apply to Orana for regional sponsorship.

 

[jayptl]

In the ACS guide line it is indicated that

computer, laptop configuration, software upgrate, networking side, installation are not considered as professional level.

While I wana assess System Admin role, while majority of these duties involves in this roles.

Wt to do about this situation

 

[espresso]

Hi jayptl,

the full description of Systems Administrator (262113) is as follows:

Plans, develops, installs, troubleshoots, maintains and supports an operating system and associated server hardware, software and databases ensuring optimum system integrity, security, backup and performance.

And the task list contains:

• designing and maintaining database architecture, data structures, tables, dictionaries and naming conventions to ensure the accuracy and completeness of all data master files
• performing the operational establishment and preventive maintenance of backups, recovery procedures, and enforcing security and integrity controls
• implementing and administering database documentation, guidelines, policies and procedures
• testing database systems and upgrades, such as debugging, tracking, reproduction, logging and resolving all identified problems, according to approved quality testing scripts, procedures and processes
• accepting responsibility for the processes, procedures and operational management associated with system security and disaster recovery planning
• liaising with security vendors, suppliers, service providers and external resources; analysing, recommending, installing and maintaining software security applications; and monitoring contractual obligations, performance delivery and service level agreements
• troubleshooting and providing service support in diagnosing, resolving and repairing server-related hardware and software malfunctions, encompassing workstations and communication infrastructure
• preparing and maintaining documentation, policies and instructions, and recording and detailing operational procedures and system logs
• ensuring that the design of computer sites allows all components to fit together and work properly, and monitoring and adjusting the performance of networks
• continually surveying the current computer site to determine future network needs and making recommendations for enhancements in the implementation of future servers and networks

Being a systems administrator involves more than just installing manufacture-supplied software packages, repairing computers or printers and creating user accounts. You only have to make sure that your reference letter reflects that you are doing your job on a professional level. Keywords like "design/architecture", "assess and recommend", "policy/SLA development", "responsibility" as well as "security", "integrity" and "performance" strongly point into that direction. Maybe you are the administrator of a large blade system and were also involved in the vendor decision. Or you are responsible for an enterprise resource planning system at multiple plant sites and program your own modules. Or maybe you introduced a helpdesk at your company or helped develop service level agreements etc. I'm sure you can easily think of something that makes you different from "the-guy-who-changes-the-printer-cartridge-once-in-a-while".

All the best and don't worry,
Monika

 

[jayptl]

Thnx again Monica for being valuable help.

I definitely consider your thoughts in reference letter, like using professional technical word, help desk service etc.