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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

I have a job offer in Paris, the salary is 45k per year, which leaves 2813 euro per month net value. We are not planning to spend more than 1000 euro on rent + charges, and we have 1 girl of 4 years old, and a second baby girl on the way.

Is this enough to leave a normal life in the suburbs of Paris? I will have 50% of transport fees deducted by the company, plus mutuelle sante and extra prevoyance sante payed by the company, which hopefully will cover the family as well.

Thanks in advance!
 

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Maybe. You're pretty much limited to one-third your monthly salary for rent (though I'm not sure whether that is gross or net). And it can depend quite a bit on which suburb - how far out and how close to public transit.

I will have 50% of transport fees deducted by the company, plus mutuelle sante and extra prevoyance sante payed by the company, which hopefully will cover the family as well.
You may want to clarify this with your employer to be. The transport thing is required of all employers in the Ile de France (Paris region) - and basically means that they will pay for one half of your monthly transport pass. Whether or not you'll need a car to get to the closest train or bus is a separate issue. And the cost of the monthly pass varies according to which of 6 zones you live in and where your workplace is.

The mutuelle costs are normally split between the employer and employee (60-40 seems to be a popular split, with the employer paying the 60%) - and for the mutuelle you pay per person covered, so it's up to you if you want to include your wife and children. (Children are normally covered at about half price or so of the adult rate.) The employer should be able to give you details on how much this will cost.
Cheers,
Bev
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi, Thanks for your answer.

We will for sure rent a place that is close to a RER station, as I said not more than 900-1000 euro per month. We will also have a car with us, but we plan to use it only for shopping and small drives on the countryside. We looked at places in Bussy Saint Georges, which is on the route of RER A, pretty close to Disney Land.
 

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You might find it difficult to find an apartment for four in the Paris suburbs (including Bussy Saint Georges) for under €1000. Looking at seloger.com shows a few places under that, with the biggest being a two bedroom at 68 square meters.
 

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Hmm i think you might struggle. We are in Lyon, on around 2,400 a month and it's tight. Family of two adults (1 working), two school-aged children. Granted, your children are younger so you won't have the same activities / lunches etc costs. We pay just over 1,000/month rent for a two bedroom, 86sqm in a good area in Lyon: I can't imagine you finding anything for less than 1000 in Paris. We don't have any transport costs as OH cycles to work. Mutuelle comes direct from his salary so I don't know what that is. Overall it's very tight though once the bills are paid, and we rely on income from a rental in the UK to tide us over the ends of the month.

If you are willing to live in a less fancy area, if you are used to cutting your cloth and living within your means, you might be able to do it by shopping at Lidl and limiting eating out to picnics in the parks. It's fine while the children are babies, gets a bit more frustrating as the grow up and want to do activities / eat lunch / go out with their mates.
 

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We pay 1700 for a three bed in (what I think) the best suburb of Paris. 67 sq metre with car parking.

When we lived in Lyon we paid 700 euros for 90 sq metre overlooking the Monts. But that was a long time ago.

We blow in excess of 5k per month in living expenses with two kids.

Welcome to France.
 

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A problem that you will certainly run into is the 3* rule. It really limits your choices when it comes to housing, although from an objective standpoint I think its a good practice. As others have said, it also depends where you go. My original take home income qualified me for an apartment that was legally too small to house two people! My solution was the back door route and luckily I was able to rent an adequately sized place directly from a woman who I paid in cash "unofficially". We have since moved.
Fortunately, I changed jobs and now earn enough to rent an apartment, albeit very small (42m2) that has two bedrooms.
Our family size is two..me and my son, so we manage. I pay 900E for this tiny place and I had to get a guarantee from my company that my rent would be covered should I be unable to pay. This normally only happens when you try to go slightly over 1/3 of your monthly take-home but I was well under! Sometimes landlords can be picky and its their prerogative.
I feel a bit obligated to live in this area...it is second only to Versailles in real estate prices..due to lack of car and proximity to my son's school and my work place. Best of luck to you!
 

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The 1/3 of income rule is supposed to be apply to gross income. However, it's important to have a CDI work contract.
 

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That's a good point EverHopeful, and one I often forget about. We ended up having one of my husband's colleagues act as guarantor for us (he's a high earner / long time resident) - we couldn't have rented the flat that we found otherwise as the monthly income wasn't high enough, never mind all the other paperwork we had to submit. This was for renting through an agent - I think they tend to be very strict. The OP might have more luck with a private rent - though of course there are risks inherent in that too.
 

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The 1/3 of income rule is supposed to be apply to gross income. However, it's important to have a CDI work contract.
Thanks for letting me know that! Gross before cotisations?
I've been looking at it wrong this whole time. I thought it was take-home. Well that makes me happy. But I do seem to remember the agents I visited looking at net.
 

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Let's face it, unless you are very well-heeled, it's incredibly hard to rent in Paris - not just the rents (though that's the major issue for most), but availability. That's why so many do a considerable commute.
 

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Thanks for letting me know that! Gross before cotisations?
I've been looking at it wrong this whole time. I thought it was take-home. Well that makes me happy. But I do seem to remember the agents I visited looking at net.
It's supposed to be gross. However, agents will always go for the person they consider best able to meet the commitment, that sadly is the impact of the ridiculously tight market in Paris.
 

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Let's face it, unless you are very well-heeled, it's incredibly hard to rent in Paris - not just the rents (though that's the major issue for most), but availability. That's why so many do a considerable commute.
There are plenty of flats about but most of them are cràp.

The modern ones are badly made (cold in the winter and hot in the summer) and the older 'character' types' have a terrible configuration. Furthermore, the condition of flats is terrible. The Parisians have no idea how to renovate and the flats are in a disgusting condition. They really do the bare minimum to make them habitable. I think it is a disgrace given the rental charges.

The biggest problem also in terms of availability are those flats with 3/4 bedroms. Not many about.

It makes me laugh when Paris thinks it will steal 1000's of banking jobs from post exit Britain. Ummm....hello !!! Where are these banking types going to live ????? :rolleyes:
 

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There are plenty of flats about but most of them are cràp.

The modern ones are badly made (cold in the winter and hot in the summer) and the older 'character' types' have a terrible configuration. Furthermore, the condition of flats is terrible. The Parisians have no idea how to renovate and the flats are in a disgusting condition. They really do the bare minimum to make them habitable. I think it is a disgrace given the rental charges.

The biggest problem also in terms of availability are those flats with 3/4 bedroms. Not many about.

It makes me laugh when Paris thinks it will steal 1000's of banking jobs from post exit Britain. Ummm....hello !!! Where are these banking types going to live ????? :rolleyes:
I agree overall with your comments. As far as the banking jobs are concerned, there's supposed to be an accommodation plan (and other stuff re schooling etc), including new construction - may be the La Defense area but TBH I can't remember and, of course, there's lead time and cost.

Wait till they host the Olympic Games - how on earth are they going to deal with that and how many people will be driven out of Paris as a result? Although, of course, there's a possibility that some owners will do renovations - but to what standard? Just enough to make it look OK on promotional photos?
 

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I As far as the banking jobs are concerned, there's supposed to be an accommodation plan (and other stuff re schooling etc), including new construction - may be the La Defense area but TBH I can't remember and, of course, there's lead time and cost.
Yes lead time and cost.....and space !!! There is none. Especially in La Defense and surrounding areas.

In terms of schooling....you have to live in the right road, or even the right side of the road to get them into good schools. Forget private schools, you have no chance.

Why do you think we moved back home to Tours ????
 

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Well, I realize Paris is expensive by French standards, but I would wager that comparable apartments here are less expensive than ones in London, New York, San Francisco, LA, Hong Kong...

As incredible as this is to me, we rent our former home in Austin, TX for more than we're paying to rent in Paris. I think that's nuts - it's an upside-down world!
 

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Thanks for letting me know that! Gross before cotisations?
I've been looking at it wrong this whole time. I thought it was take-home. Well that makes me happy. But I do seem to remember the agents I visited looking at net.
It's net not gross. I look at more than a dozen ads a day and they all want net.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
By the looks of things on this thread, we don't stand a chance in Paris with 45k a month. Although as someone said, we have small children that for now don't need money to go out with friends and stuff, things will not be the case for too long. Of course the plan is for my wife to also get a job when our youngest reaches 2 years of age, and that would increase our chances of a normal life in Paris.

We don't know yet what to do yet, but it does not look good...
 

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In part, the situation is driven by the fact that very very few French women take extended parental leave. Many are back at work by 4 months, the majority by 6 months. The ones I know that have taken extended leave are either onto at least their 3rd child and eligible for a longer congée famliale or whatever, or their husbands earn enough to support the whole family or they are not French! State provided childcare is cheap, and (in theory) available for all working parents of children from the age of 3 months and up. For your wife to not work until your youngest is 2 would be considered pretty unusual - which is part of the reason why it's so hard to support a family on one average salary - French people don't usually do that.
 
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