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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a few questions about declaring requirements and if not done, is there a penalty if not done?

Currently the level is quite high but more earlier years the threshold is lower. Within the past seven years could this cause a tax penalty if a person didn't required the forms?

Any help will be interested. I'm not dancing around the wording, whether I did or didn't made a declaration but if I'm okay, I'll fight not to pay things I didn't need to pay. I certainly don't want any penalty tax.

I've asked a lot of people (French and English) and nobody pays anything for this wealth tax. Of course, I'm not hanging around with rich people.

Any Information????

Blackduff
 

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The penalty for not declaring, is normally a percentage of the amount that you should have paid, i.e. you pay 1XX% of what you would have been liable to pay if you had declared.
The percentage penalty is higher acccording to the level of fraud involved. IIRC there are 3 levels, from a careless oversight, to deliberately not declaring but not actually providing false information, to actually providing false information with intent to defraud.
That's how it is for most non-declarations, so I assume it's the same for wealth tax.
 

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If your net worth exceeds the threshold (currently 1.3 million € ) but is under 2.57 million €, you just have to declare your net worth on your income tax declaration. Over the 2.57 million € and you are supposed to file a separate declaration (form 2725 - in normal or simplified versions) along with paying the amount you owe.

This page from the fisc website might help: Impots.gouv.fr - Impt de Solidarit sur la Fortune

I'm not sure what resources the fisc has for tracking down folks who didn't pay in prior years, but haven't heard any horror stories of those "found out" years after the taxes were due.
Cheers,
Bev
 

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You are exempt from Wealth tax for the first five years as a new resident moving to France. So if you have been a resident for only five years or less then dont worry about it at all. The way they can catch u is if u have serious income from investments the tax office know when u declare your income and sources as to how much your assets might be worth based on a percentage of the return....but as i said for five years there is an exemption as far as I know...unless Hollande messed that up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
You are exempt from Wealth tax for the first five years as a new resident moving to France. So if you have been a resident for only five years or less then dont worry about it at all. The way they can catch u is if u have serious income from investments the tax office know when u declare your income and sources as to how much your assets might be worth based on a percentage of the return....but as i said for five years there is an exemption as far as I know...unless Hollande messed that up.
I've been here for over twenty years ~ this loop-out doesn't work for me.

Right now I have to meet the ISF since 2007 to 2012. I have to complete this form with all of the requirements.

Fun times!

Blackduff
 

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20 years and havent declared wealth tax? Seriously move to Belgium or Italy rather than declaring ur wealth at this point.

Also is france your center of economic activity? Meaning do u earn the majority of ur income in france or outside? If u earn your income outside then also I think u can get away with never declaring wealth tax because u wont be considered fiscally resident in france...but the fiscal residence criteria is tricky...it doesnt depend only on spending 183 days a year in france. Get an american tax advisor there are plenty in France and speak to them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
20 years and havent declared wealth tax? Seriously move to Belgium or Italy rather than declaring ur wealth at this point.

Also is france your center of economic activity? Meaning do u earn the majority of ur income in france or outside? If u earn your income outside then also I think u can get away with never declaring wealth tax because u wont be considered fiscally resident in france...but the fiscal residence criteria is tricky...it doesnt depend only on spending 183 days a year in france. Get an american tax advisor there are plenty in France and speak to them.
I have to make the declaration for the ISF (French Wealth) which is part of the French tax form. Right now I have to make the declaration for the years ISF started. It's not really that I'll be paying anything (remember the new payment starts above 1.3 million euros) but my lawyer said that I might need get a fine for not filling the form with my declaration. It seems most people just passed filling the part of the form. I'm into a bigger tax amnesty system so filling the ISF is required.

I think that there will be more people into this system soon.

Blackduff
 

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I don't think France buys into any "tax amnesty" system; it demands its pound of flesh, if they can prove you have it, and WILL have it. Think it's got that one sewn up - sorry.
 

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I paid thousands of euros and consulted with 3 different tax attorneys in Paris and all three gave me different answers for my tax status situation in france. When i found out all the complexities of tax laws and penalties and confusion around the whole thing it was too much headache to deal with..on top of that the french mentality that thinks everyone with money is a criminal and their negative attitude towards rich people just made me fed up with france and i left. No one knows the right answers in france...not even paid tax consultants but u can try with them and get it in writing so later if they make a mistake u dont have to pay for it. If u go asking the tax office about this.. that will open a can of worms...france is desperate for money the situation is different than it was previously....they are bleeding and will take whatever they can from whoever they can.

I just came to a conclusion about this whole tax situation in france...if u are at least worth 2 million why bother living full time in france? Plenty of tax havens in europe where u can set up home and never bother with anything...not even declarations...and u can anyways spend 6 months a year in france without the headaches....but france is great for poor struggling artists or immigrants who need free housing and benefits....for anyone with a bit of money that country has become a nightmare and is only going to get worse....u have no clue what tax advisors charge in france for giving false advice and filing taxes...if they know u need to deal with wealth tax they will hike their rates up...the system doesnt work well for rich foreigners at all...for rich french they still know how to deal with it and get around but all rich french are fed up and planning their move as we speak...lol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I'm not sure if anybody on this post have seen "Connexion", the expat rag about people in France. The November issue had an article with the guy from "Blevins Frank" about the losing the secrecy in the banks in Europe and and where tax evaders are being given-up by the offshore banks.

Whether the wording meaning "Amnesty" isn't exactly but France is giving a short term to become legal with the investing outside of France. Those which sign up for to become legal on the secret investments will get a reduction of the Penalties and Fines. Those tax evaders who chose not to join up with the "Amnesty", from the beginning in ca 2014 will civil penalties turn into Penal penalties. The evaders can get free housing within the French prisons.

Like the old saying, "if you have lots of lemons, make lemonaide". Get a copy of the Connexion and read the article. The story is full of lemons in our future life.

Blackduff
 

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The whole idea about declaring and paying taxes on worldwide income and assets for french residents came from the notion that if you live and earn wealth in France and then invest that wealth around the world - you should have a responsibility to pay back to France for giving you all that opportunity to become rich. However this should not apply to "new residents" moving to france who already have existing wealth....that is wrong to trap their worldwide assets into french taxes.

I stayed in france for a year and a half as a long term tourist with my centre of economic activity in my country, I was never a french fiscal resident so have nothing to worry about. I had moved to france with the intention of settling down there but left as soon as i found how unfair their tax laws are...I just didnt want to invest my life in a country that would punish me for living and spending my money in the long term. I do miss france but prefer long holidays there now...its not worth it any other way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Blackduff, I take it the "amnesty" you're talking about is the US one related to FATCA, no?
Cheers,
Bev
No, I have another problem with my wife's accounts. This will go away somewhere down the road but this is going to cost. For others to think that there's a place to hide for money, believe me it's going to be very difficult.

The FATCA is a problem for me but I'm working around this situation. My accounts have closed on some and I'm not bothered so far from the BNP acct.. I closed my Amex card (US Dollars) and now I use an Amex (euro card). Overall, my American Dollar uses will be reduced to a minimum.

The Amnesty plan written by Blevins Frank in Connexion is exactly what is happening to my accounts. Plus, I have four other expats getting the same treatment. Some are squirming but it's probably going down the sewer too.

This plan Amnesty requires French taxes redone from 2006 to 2012, including any hidden earnings, etc.. This also requires redo or do ( if it has never filled) the ISF information and provide this to the French people. PLUS, a fiscale report must be provided by the bank(s) where income was made.

What will be left from the Amnesty plan. I'm not sure. Maybe I'll start a fish and chips shop to provide later.

Blackduff
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
The lawyer who is handling my amnesty told us that there are over 8,000 French residents signed up for the amnesty system. The French system is overburdened for the 8,000 people signed and they (the french system) cannot provide the various questions needed for the different people. This may take years to finalize what I'll have to pay.

Blackduff
 
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