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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As soon as we get invite the anxiousness changes to inquisitiveness on how to proceed further,

Explaining here :)with some steps, experts can add more


:):)PRE-INVITE:):)

if you have submitted EOI and are very sure of receiving it in a week or a month then Initiate PCC action for countries which take some time to process. For Eg FBI PCC, as my friends say it takes around 10-12 weeks, so it is best to initiate the process at least a month before the date you are sure of getting an invite.

INTERIM STAGE

Between EOI submission and invite, think of how you are going to pay the visa fees, there are several ways to pay which is listed on How to Pay

However the best one I found with respect to Indian applicants is the TRAVEL CARD OR FOREX CARD - Single currency or multi currency, anyone will do

there are several banks which offer travel cards - ICICI, AXIS, HDFC, besides this some travel agents like cox and kings offer travel card. do some research over conversion rate(AUD TO INR) before buying a travel card and loading Australian $ into it. strike a deal at the optimum time. Having a bank account with these banks could help in getting travel card, as per my experience ICICI is the one which issues travel card easily without much of drama.

:):)POST INVITE:):)

The status in skillselect will change to INVITED and a new button APPLY VISA will appear in the skill select page, clicking on that button will take you to immiaccount page where you need to create an account. Fill the 17 page form, most of data inside that is retrieved from EOI


after receiving invite you have 60 days to submit visa application.

Submitting a visa application - it means creating an immiaccount, filling details of self and dependents in immiaccount and paying visa fees for self and dependents

Migrating Dependents - mention spouse, defacto partner and child here, it is economical and time saving to add spouse and children within your PR application instead of taking spouse visa or child visa for them at a later stage.

adding parents as migrating dependents is not possible after Nov 19, 2016 since the definition of MEMBER OF FAMILY UNIT has changed since that date.

see link for details https://www.border.gov.au/Migrationagents/Pages/member-of-family-unit.aspx

visa fees is 3600 AUD for primary applicant, 1800 AUD for dependent applicant over 18 years age and 900 AUD for dependent applicants under 18 years age. along with this there will be some service tax charged while payment of visa fees, all total the service tax will be upto 100 AUD in case of Primary Applicant + spouse + child 1 + child 2

:mmph:RELEVANT DOCUMENTS:mmph:

Guiding line is that you need to submit all documents which are required to prove your claims made in EOI, a general list of documents is mentioned below, some specific documents may be required in special cases


Document Naming Tips When naming your files to be attached to an online application only use numbers 0–9 and letters A–Z (upper and lower case), dashes '–' and underscores '_'. You must avoid using spaces ' ', periods '.', ampersand '&', hash '#', star '*', exclamation marks '!', quotations '' "" and any other character that is not a letter, a number, a dash or an underscore.

Document Size - less than 5 MB
Number of Documents - 60 per applicant i.e. 60 for you, 60 for spouse, 60 for child

More details on Attach documents to an online application

Primary Applicant

1. Passport - first and last page color scan
2. English Test Report - In case of PTE, the report card need to be sent to DIBP via pearson account
3. Birth Certificate - some applicants(mostly Indian) give matriculation certificate as proof of DOB
4. Qualifying Degree - Marksheets, Transcript & Degree certificate
5. Roles and responsibilities Letter - for all companies for which you are claiming experience points, if the rnr letter is from HR then it is the best case
11 Salary Slip - for all companies for which you are claiming experience points, one per quarter or six months is sufficient in addition
12 Skill assessment letter from competent Australian authority
13 Tax documents - for indian employment give ITR V or FORM 16 or FORM 26AS
14 Photo - passport size
15 Marriage Certificate(if married)
16 PCC - from all countries where you have stayed more than 12 months in past 10 years
17 Form 80
18 Form 1221
19 Medical fee payment receipt - not mandatory

Additional Applicant over 18

1 Passport - first and last page color scan
2 Birth Certificate
4 Education documents
5 6 Proof of functional english - letter from college
7 PCC - from all countries where this person have stayed more than 12 months in past 10 years
8 Form 80
9 Form 1221
10 Photo - passport size
11 Medical fee payment receipt - not mandatory

In case of de-facto relation provide evidence of relationship for at least past 12 months since day of invitation. Evidence can be joint bank account statements, billing accounts in joint names, and other evidence of cohabitation like rent/lease agreement in joint name

:baby::baby:Additional Applicant under 18:baby::baby:
1 Passport - first and last page color scan
2 Birth Certificate
3 Medical fee payment receipt - not mandatory
4 Photo - passport size

Documents for NOT RELEVANT Experience - In principle it is not required to provide any document for which we havent claimed any points, however in my personal opinion if there is some employment which is not relevant then mention it in form 80 and provide some basic document for this like a joining letter, discharge letter. I will like to say it once more that it is not mandatory

PCC - Police clearance certificate

Indian PCC - if you are in India, you need to create an account on PSK(passport seva kendra) website and apply for PCC from there,

if current address is different from passport address then you need to have a proof for current address, the list of documents are mentioned on PSK document advisor, however a photo passbook in a nationalised bank serves the best address proof.

if you are outside India, then you need to do it through Indian Embassy/High Commission in that country, alternatively there are some agencies like VFS global who help in getting pcc, their service is paid as far as i know

USA PCC - this thread is a good guide for USA PCC http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...a/76939-usa-police-clearance-certificate.html

Singapore PCC or COC - to be applied as Certificate of clearance on E-Services, some discussion on SG PCC on http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...6-singapore-police-clearance-certificate.html

on the similar lines, PCC from various countries can be done either online or through their embassy in your country

Medicals AFTER visa Lodge- Generate HAP ID letter from immiaccount

VIEW HEALTH ASSESSMENT - ORGANIZE HEALTH EXAMINATION - PRINT REFERRAL LETTER -- this referral letter has the HAP ID for you, in similar way generate HAP ID letter for all the applicants within your visa application.

contact the nearest panel physician and book an appointment for medicals, many offer online booking for visa health check, check their websites once. visit the panel physician on day of appointment with passport, HAP ID letter and one photograph, gt through with medicals

tests done for visa health check --- blood test, urine test, chest X ray, general examination by Doctor, they do some additional test in case of any adverse findings

list of panel physician authorised by DIBP = https://www.border.gov.au/Lega/Lega/Help/immigration-panel-physicians


Medicals BEFORE Visa Lodge Some people prefer to do medicals before visa lodge, I think they are skeptical about health check and do it prior to visa lodge, however many persons i know have done it after visa lodge. At the end it is applicant's choice when to do medicals - before or after

My health declarations MY HEALTH DECLARATIONS is the pathway to do medicals before visa lodge, In this we create an immiaccount, fill details of applicants who will apply visa in future, generate HAP ID for them and get through with visa health check as mentioned above. while lodging visa application we can use teh same immiaccount or create a new one and enter these HAP IDs and the health check data is synced accordingly.


DO NOT WAIT FOR CASE OFFICER TO ASK FOR PCC/MEDICALS, Initiate action by yourself at right time

After all this, forget that you lodged a visa application and pick up a hobby, target to achieve something awesome:rockon::rockon: by the time you get VISA...

GOOD LUCK
 

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Sultan,

Truly informative post..this will help many many Australian PR aspirants about the process...

Really appreciate your efforts to share this knowledge with everyone... :) :thumb:

As soon as we get invite the anxiousness changes to inquisitiveness on how to proceed further,

Explaining here :)with some steps, experts can add more


:):)PRE-INVITE:):)

if you have submitted EOI and are very sure of receiving it in a week or a month then Initiate PCC action for countries which take some time to process. For Eg FBI PCC, as my friends say it takes around 10-12 weeks, so it is best to initiate the process at least a month before the date you are sure of getting an invite.

INTERIM STAGE

Between EOI submission and invite, think of how you are going to pay the visa fees, there are several ways to pay which is listed on How to Pay

However the best one I found with respect to Indian applicants is the TRAVEL CARD OR FOREX CARD - Single currency or multi currency, anyone will do

there are several banks which offer travel cards - ICICI, AXIS, HDFC, besides this some travel agents like cox and kings offer travel card. do some research over conversion rate(AUD TO INR) before buying a travel card and loading Australian $ into it. strike a deal at the optimum time. Having a bank account with these banks could help in getting travel card, as per my experience ICICI is the one which issues travel card easily without much of drama.

:):)POST INVITE:):)

The status in skillselect will change to INVITED and a new button APPLY VISA will appear in the skill select page, clicking on that button will take you to immiaccount page where you need to create an account. Fill the 17 page form, most of data inside that is retrieved from EOI


after receiving invite you have 60 days to submit visa application.

Submitting a visa application - it means creating an immiaccount, filling details of self and dependents in immiaccount and paying visa fees for self and dependents

Migrating Dependents - mention spouse, defacto partner and child here, it is economical and time saving to add spouse and children within your PR application instead of taking spouse visa or child visa for them at a later stage.

adding parents as migrating dependents is not possible after Nov 19, 2016 since the definition of MEMBER OF FAMILY UNIT has changed since that date.

see link for details https://www.border.gov.au/Migrationagents/Pages/member-of-family-unit.aspx

visa fees is 3600 AUD for primary applicant, 1800 AUD for dependent applicant over 18 years age and 900 AUD for dependent applicants under 18 years age. along with this there will be some service tax charged while payment of visa fees, all total the service tax will be upto 100 AUD in case of Primary Applicant + spouse + child 1 + child 2

:mmph:RELEVANT DOCUMENTS:mmph:

Guiding line is that you need to submit all documents which are required to prove your claims made in EOI, a general list of documents is mentioned below, some specific documents may be required in special cases


Document Naming Tips When naming your files to be attached to an online application only use numbers 0–9 and letters A–Z (upper and lower case), dashes '–' and underscores '_'. You must avoid using spaces ' ', periods '.', ampersand '&', hash '#', star '*', exclamation marks '!', quotations '' "" and any other character that is not a letter, a number, a dash or an underscore.

Document Size - less than 5 MB
Number of Documents - 60 per applicant i.e. 60 for you, 60 for spouse, 60 for child

More details on Attach documents to an online application

Primary Applicant

1. Passport - first and last page color scan
2. English Test Report - In case of PTE, the report card need to be sent to DIBP via pearson account
3. Birth Certificate - some applicants(mostly Indian) give matriculation certificate as proof of DOB
4. Qualifying Degree - Marksheets, Transcript & Degree certificate
5. Roles and responsibilities Letter - for all companies for which you are claiming experience points, if the rnr letter is from HR then it is the best case
11 Salary Slip - for all companies for which you are claiming experience points, one per quarter or six months is sufficient in addition
12 Skill assessment letter from competent Australian authority
13 Tax documents - for indian employment give ITR V or FORM 16 or FORM 26AS
14 Photo - passport size
15 Marriage Certificate(if married)
16 PCC - from all countries where you have stayed more than 12 months in past 10 years
17 Form 80
18 Form 1221
19 Medical fee payment receipt - not mandatory

Additional Applicant over 18

1 Passport - first and last page color scan
2 Birth Certificate
4 Education documents
5 6 Proof of functional english - letter from college
7 PCC - from all countries where this person have stayed more than 12 months in past 10 years
8 Form 80
9 Form 1221
10 Photo - passport size
11 Medical fee payment receipt - not mandatory

In case of de-facto relation provide evidence of relationship for at least past 12 months since day of invitation. Evidence can be joint bank account statements, billing accounts in joint names, and other evidence of cohabitation like rent/lease agreement in joint name

:baby::baby:Additional Applicant under 18:baby::baby:
1 Passport - first and last page color scan
2 Birth Certificate
3 Medical fee payment receipt - not mandatory
4 Photo - passport size

Documents for NOT RELEVANT Experience - In principle it is not required to provide any document for which we havent claimed any points, however in my personal opinion if there is some employment which is not relevant then mention it in form 80 and provide some basic document for this like a joining letter, discharge letter. I will like to say it once more that it is not mandatory

PCC - Police clearance certificate

Indian PCC - if you are in India, you need to create an account on PSK(passport seva kendra) website and apply for PCC from there,

if current address is different from passport address then you need to have a proof for current address, the list of documents are mentioned on PSK document advisor, however a photo passbook in a nationalised bank serves the best address proof.

if you are outside India, then you need to do it through Indian Embassy/High Commission in that country, alternatively there are some agencies like VFS global who help in getting pcc, their service is paid as far as i know

USA PCC - this thread is a good guide for USA PCC http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...a/76939-usa-police-clearance-certificate.html

Singapore PCC or COC - to be applied as Certificate of clearance on E-Services, some discussion on SG PCC on http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...6-singapore-police-clearance-certificate.html

on the similar lines, PCC from various countries can be done either online or through their embassy in your country

Medicals AFTER visa Lodge- Generate HAP ID letter from immiaccount

VIEW HEALTH ASSESSMENT - ORGANIZE HEALTH EXAMINATION - PRINT REFERRAL LETTER -- this referral letter has the HAP ID for you, in similar way generate HAP ID letter for all the applicants within your visa application.

contact the nearest panel physician and book an appointment for medicals, many offer online booking for visa health check, check their websites once. visit the panel physician on day of appointment with passport, HAP ID letter and one photograph, gt through with medicals

tests done for visa health check --- blood test, urine test, chest X ray, general examination by Doctor, they do some additional test in case of any adverse findings

list of panel physician authorised by DIBP = https://www.border.gov.au/Lega/Lega/Help/immigration-panel-physicians


Medicals BEFORE Visa Lodge Some people prefer to do medicals before visa lodge, I think they are skeptical about health check and do it prior to visa lodge, however many persons i know have done it after visa lodge. At the end it is applicant's choice when to do medicals - before or after

My health declarations MY HEALTH DECLARATIONS is the pathway to do medicals before visa lodge, In this we create an immiaccount, fill details of applicants who will apply visa in future, generate HAP ID for them and get through with visa health check as mentioned above. while lodging visa application we can use teh same immiaccount or create a new one and enter these HAP IDs and the health check data is synced accordingly.

GOOD LUCK
 

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Sultan,

Truly informative post..this will help many many Australian PR aspirants about the process...

Really appreciate your efforts to share this knowledge with everyone... :) :thumb:
I wish i had read this before
:mad:
I would have not done the mistake of obtaining PCC from local police station
 

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22 Posts
As soon as we get invite the anxiousness changes to inquisitiveness on how to proceed further,



Explaining here :)with some steps, experts can add more





:):)PRE-INVITE:):)



if you have submitted EOI and are very sure of receiving it in a week or a month then Initiate PCC action for countries which take some time to process. For Eg FBI PCC, as my friends say it takes around 10-12 weeks, so it is best to initiate the process at least a month before the date you are sure of getting an invite.



INTERIM STAGE



Between EOI submission and invite, think of how you are going to pay the visa fees, there are several ways to pay which is listed on How to Pay



However the best one I found with respect to Indian applicants is the TRAVEL CARD OR FOREX CARD - Single currency or multi currency, anyone will do



there are several banks which offer travel cards - ICICI, AXIS, HDFC, besides this some travel agents like cox and kings offer travel card. do some research over conversion rate(AUD TO INR) before buying a travel card and loading Australian $ into it. strike a deal at the optimum time. Having a bank account with these banks could help in getting travel card, as per my experience ICICI is the one which issues travel card easily without much of drama.



:):)POST INVITE:):)



The status in skillselect will change to INVITED and a new button APPLY VISA will appear in the skill select page, clicking on that button will take you to immiaccount page where you need to create an account. Fill the 17 page form, most of data inside that is retrieved from EOI





after receiving invite you have 60 days to submit visa application.



Submitting a visa application - it means creating an immiaccount, filling details of self and dependents in immiaccount and paying visa fees for self and dependents



Migrating Dependents - mention spouse, defacto partner and child here, it is economical and time saving to add spouse and children within your PR application instead of taking spouse visa or child visa for them at a later stage.



adding parents as migrating dependents is not possible after Nov 19, 2016 since the definition of MEMBER OF FAMILY UNIT has changed since that date.



see link for details https://www.border.gov.au/Migrationagents/Pages/member-of-family-unit.aspx



visa fees is 3600 AUD for primary applicant, 1800 AUD for dependent applicant over 18 years age and 900 AUD for dependent applicants under 18 years age. along with this there will be some service tax charged while payment of visa fees, all total the service tax will be upto 100 AUD in case of Primary Applicant + spouse + child 1 + child 2



:mmph:RELEVANT DOCUMENTS:mmph:



Guiding line is that you need to submit all documents which are required to prove your claims made in EOI, a general list of documents is mentioned below, some specific documents may be required in special cases





Document Naming Tips When naming your files to be attached to an online application only use numbers 0–9 and letters A–Z (upper and lower case), dashes '–' and underscores '_'. You must avoid using spaces ' ', periods '.', ampersand '&', hash '#', star '*', exclamation marks '!', quotations '' "" and any other character that is not a letter, a number, a dash or an underscore.



Document Size - less than 5 MB

Number of Documents - 60 per applicant i.e. 60 for you, 60 for spouse, 60 for child



More details on Attach documents to an online application



Primary Applicant



1. Passport - first and last page color scan

2. English Test Report - In case of PTE, the report card need to be sent to DIBP via pearson account

3. Birth Certificate - some applicants(mostly Indian) give matriculation certificate as proof of DOB

4. Qualifying Degree - Marksheets, Transcript & Degree certificate

5. Roles and responsibilities Letter - for all companies for which you are claiming experience points, if the rnr letter is from HR then it is the best case

11 Salary Slip - for all companies for which you are claiming experience points, one per quarter or six months is sufficient in addition

12 Skill assessment letter from competent Australian authority

13 Tax documents - for indian employment give ITR V or FORM 16 or FORM 26AS

14 Photo - passport size

15 Marriage Certificate(if married)

16 PCC - from all countries where you have stayed more than 12 months in past 10 years

17 Form 80

18 Form 1221

19 Medical fee payment receipt - not mandatory



Additional Applicant over 18



1 Passport - first and last page color scan

2 Birth Certificate

4 Education documents

5 6 Proof of functional english - letter from college

7 PCC - from all countries where this person have stayed more than 12 months in past 10 years

8 Form 80

9 Form 1221

10 Photo - passport size

11 Medical fee payment receipt - not mandatory



In case of de-facto relation provide evidence of relationship for at least past 12 months since day of invitation. Evidence can be joint bank account statements, billing accounts in joint names, and other evidence of cohabitation like rent/lease agreement in joint name



:baby::baby:Additional Applicant under 18:baby::baby:

1 Passport - first and last page color scan

2 Birth Certificate

3 Medical fee payment receipt - not mandatory

4 Photo - passport size



Documents for NOT RELEVANT Experience - In principle it is not required to provide any document for which we havent claimed any points, however in my personal opinion if there is some employment which is not relevant then mention it in form 80 and provide some basic document for this like a joining letter, discharge letter. I will like to say it once more that it is not mandatory



PCC - Police clearance certificate



Indian PCC - if you are in India, you need to create an account on PSK(passport seva kendra) website and apply for PCC from there,



if current address is different from passport address then you need to have a proof for current address, the list of documents are mentioned on PSK document advisor, however a photo passbook in a nationalised bank serves the best address proof.



if you are outside India, then you need to do it through Indian Embassy/High Commission in that country, alternatively there are some agencies like VFS global who help in getting pcc, their service is paid as far as i know



USA PCC - this thread is a good guide for USA PCC http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...a/76939-usa-police-clearance-certificate.html



Singapore PCC or COC - to be applied as Certificate of clearance on E-Services, some discussion on SG PCC on http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...6-singapore-police-clearance-certificate.html



on the similar lines, PCC from various countries can be done either online or through their embassy in your country



Medicals AFTER visa Lodge- Generate HAP ID letter from immiaccount



VIEW HEALTH ASSESSMENT - ORGANIZE HEALTH EXAMINATION - PRINT REFERRAL LETTER -- this referral letter has the HAP ID for you, in similar way generate HAP ID letter for all the applicants within your visa application.



contact the nearest panel physician and book an appointment for medicals, many offer online booking for visa health check, check their websites once. visit the panel physician on day of appointment with passport, HAP ID letter and one photograph, gt through with medicals



tests done for visa health check --- blood test, urine test, chest X ray, general examination by Doctor, they do some additional test in case of any adverse findings



list of panel physician authorised by DIBP = https://www.border.gov.au/Lega/Lega/Help/immigration-panel-physicians





Medicals BEFORE Visa Lodge Some people prefer to do medicals before visa lodge, I think they are skeptical about health check and do it prior to visa lodge, however many persons i know have done it after visa lodge. At the end it is applicant's choice when to do medicals - before or after



My health declarations MY HEALTH DECLARATIONS is the pathway to





Thanks a lot Sultan for such a detailed and informative post.

Just had 1 query.

I had 1 year of non-IT experience which is nowhere related to my nominated occupation, so i had not even mentioned that in my ACS assessment.

But during EOI and visa lodging and form 80 as it asks for all employment in 10 years i added it there but marking it as not relevant and not claimed any points for that.

Can it be a problem as my ACS does not have that experience and CO can raise any concern?

Also, do i need to submit any proof for this 1 year non-IT experience?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks a lot Sultan for such a detailed and informative post.

Just had 1 query.

I had 1 year of non-IT experience which is nowhere related to my nominated occupation, so i had not even mentioned that in my ACS assessment.

But during EOI and visa lodging and form 80 as it asks for all employment in 10 years i added it there but marking it as not relevant and not claimed any points for that.

Can it be a problem as my ACS does not have that experience and CO can raise any concern?

Also, do i need to submit any proof for this 1 year non-IT experience?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

it wont be a problem, At ACS assessment stage you submitted experience details whatsoever was closely related to your field and for which you wanted to do assessment,

since that 1 year experience was NON IT hence you didnt mentioned that at all

now at visa stage you need to inform DIBP about all employments, hence you have mentioned that, which is correct

you dont need to submit any document for that non relevant experience

good luck
 

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it wont be a problem, At ACS assessment stage you submitted experience details whatsoever was closely related to your field and for which you wanted to do assessment,



since that 1 year experience was NON IT hence you didnt mentioned that at all



now at visa stage you need to inform DIBP about all employments, hence you have mentioned that, which is correct



you dont need to submit any document for that non relevant experience



good luck


Thanks a lot Sultan. Really appreciate your help.


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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
As soon as we get invite the anxiousness changes to inquisitiveness on how to proceed further,

Explaining here :)with some steps, experts can add more

In addition to this, if you are claiming points for partner skills then below mentioned needs to be provided in addition to what is mentioned in original post

1. Skill assessment letter of partner
2. Proof of Competent English - IELTS 6 or equivalent
3. Employment documents - not mandatory, but sometimes case officer can ask for this, if you have it then frontload

One significant thing regarding IED or Must Enter Before Date

IED is generally one year from the date of medicals or pcc whichever is earlier

Eg. PA did medicals on 01.03.2017, spouse did on 10.03.2017 and child did on 15.04.2017,

PCC date(considering applicants have lived in India, USA & Singapore)- USA 25.02.17, India - 12.03.2017, SG - 18.03.2017

the IED calculation will be done on earliest of all these i.e 25.02.2017, the iED will probably be 24.02.2017.

Hence applicant must gauge the situation and do pcc/medicals to get good time between visa grant and IED, else travel will have to be arranged in a hurry and flight tickets could cost a fortune.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Please look at the screenshot and tell me where can I find the option to get HAP ID.
logout, login and click on reference number, it will take you to a new window where you can see details of applicants i.e. your name and name of other applicants

under your name click VIEW HEALTH DECLARATIONS and proceed as mentioned in original post
 

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Regarding payment is it necessary that you pay the fee from your account or can you pay from any account?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Regarding payment is it necessary that you pay the fee from your account or can you pay from any account?
i havent seen netbanking option for visa fee payment

you can pay from your friend/relative's card also
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
so how do people go for medicals before paying the fees?
Medicals BEFORE Visa Lodge Some people prefer to do medicals before visa lodge, I think they are skeptical about health check and do it prior to visa lodge, however many persons i know have done it after visa lodge. At the end it is applicant's choice when to do medicals - before or after

My health declarations MY HEALTH DECLARATIONS is the pathway to do medicals before visa lodge, In this we create an immiaccount, fill details of applicants who will apply visa in future, generate HAP ID for them and get through with visa health check as mentioned above. while lodging visa application we can use teh same immiaccount or create a new one and enter these HAP IDs and the health check data is synced accordingly.
 

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Where will the passport sized photographs used?
We need hard-copy or just a soft copy? Any size, background requirements?

Also, will mix of color scanned copy and notorized copies work as proofs?
 

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