"The Black"

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"The Black"


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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10th December 2014, 09:31 PM
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Having read about it, yesterday I came across it.

Having negotiated buying a car, we discussed arrangements to apy for it and collect it. The seller then said that the invoice would show a figure of x amount, equating to 75% of the actual purchase price. This figure he said was "white" and could be paid by any means I wished, the balance would be "black" and would have to be paid in cash. When I queried it, he explained that it was to do with tax, but if I wished the full purchase price to be shown on the invoice, then the price would increase to cover the amount of tax.

All this from a "proper" car sales showroom. I was surprised that it was so blatant.

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Old 10th December 2014, 10:21 PM
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I'm not surprised.
One of the houses we looked at was to be paid for like that. A reduced sum over the table, the rest under. Ridiculous. The builder probably had his accounts closed or something. I was surprised how up front they were about their (illegal) wishes.

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Old 11th December 2014, 01:31 AM
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I made offers on two properties and both counter offers had about 25% black. No thanks.

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Old 11th December 2014, 05:00 AM
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When we bought our house (11 years ago) our solicitor suggested this.

He said the notary was aware of this happening and would leave the room while we handed over the cash.

We said we would not do this and paid the full amount by banker's draft. This amount was what was put on the escritura.

I was shocked that a solicitor would be involved in this but even more shocked that the notary (a government employee) was also involved.

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Old 11th December 2014, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Relyat View Post
Having read about it, yesterday I came across it.

Having negotiated buying a car, we discussed arrangements to apy for it and collect it. The seller then said that the invoice would show a figure of x amount, equating to 75% of the actual purchase price. This figure he said was "white" and could be paid by any means I wished, the balance would be "black" and would have to be paid in cash. When I queried it, he explained that it was to do with tax, but if I wished the full purchase price to be shown on the invoice, then the price would increase to cover the amount of tax.

All this from a "proper" car sales showroom. I was surprised that it was so blatant.
Well, I am surprised that this was the case in a car showroom. We bought a car 2 years ago and it was never mentioned, neither was it for the car we bought 12 years previously, but of course everywhere's different.
In house buying it seems to be endemic and is very difficult to not purchase in this way.

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Old 11th December 2014, 06:20 AM
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About 20 years ago the Spanish Government issued a notice that in future the price declared for the purchase of a property 'should reflect more accurately the price paid '

At that time I doubt that the actual price was ever declared.

That 'system' of course had a knock on effect. If one bought say at 100,000 but declared 80,000, then when they sold, if they declared the actual price, there would be 'built in' apparent capital gain of 20,000, which would be taxable, thus it was 'normal' to perpetuate the system.

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Old 11th December 2014, 07:27 AM
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I had to both buy and sell my property in Spain this way both times I used a solicitor and both times at the right moment the notary had to photocopy some paperwork, when I tried to pay for my hotel with the money I had been given the machines would not accept it I had a very worrying couple of hours waiting for the bank to open and accept my 500 euro notes.
I am again looking at buying in Spain and would appreciate any advice where I do not have go into this black money situation,I have even thought of paying in the uk if I bought of an expat, is that legal

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Old 11th December 2014, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugbyplod View Post
I am again looking at buying in Spain and would appreciate any advice where I do not have go into this black money situation,
If one draws up a compraventa (buy / sell agreement) that shows the actual price which has been agreed, then whatever may have been the verbal arrangement, I see no reason why when in the Notary's office one could not insist that the correct amount be shown for the transaction.

The seller could only refuse to compete, in which case he/she would be liable to repay the deposit and an equal amount in compensation.



I saw that as a potential problem when I was last selling some 12 years ago.

The buyer's abogado suggested that the compraventa be draw to show the price which we had agreed would be declared, and the balance, between that and the actual price, as the amount the buyer was agreeing to pay for furniture and fittings.

The Solicitor explained, in that way the buyer would have to pay considerably more in IVA if he chose to demand that the final sales contract showed the actual price instead of the agreed value.

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Old 11th December 2014, 07:46 AM
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The Solicitor explained, in that way the buyer would have to pay considerably more in IVA if he chose to demand that the final sales contract showed the actual price instead of the agreed value.

... but there's no IVA on second-hand property

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Old 11th December 2014, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
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... but there's no IVA on second-hand property
Impuesto de Transmisiones Patrimoniales

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