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No job land - Page 6


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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 30th December 2013, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by angil;
I also find using terms such as 'good quality of life' & 'enjoyment' when referring to Spain at the moment a difficult concept to grasp, given the reason for this discussion in the first place.
Whilst my children's 'British' school (Spanish management) was demanding we fork out yet more money for yet more stupidly expensive uniform items I was reading about Spanish school children fainting with hunger in schools in Andalucia. A terrible imbalance.
Of course you need money / work when raising children and if that means dad has to leave the country to find it well so be it! Why do you think we started this life in the first place? Because we desperately wanted to live on a small Island of the coast of South Korea??! No! It was really really tough but coming from the North East of England and in a shipbuilding background you go where the work is.
Sorry but there is more to life than chasing jobs and money. Of course it's important to have a regular and adequate source of income. But there are many other things that make a good life and a quality family life is one of them.
Little babies are not born with a sign saying 'Well-paid work must be your goal in life' stamped on their bums, are they.. There has to be a balance.
I understand that coming from the North-East well-paid jobs are hard to find at home. It's the same in many parts of the UK. My partner's brother worked all over the world earning shedloads of money. Members of my family emigrated to Canada, the U.S. and Australia for a better life.
We could have stayed on working in the UK and made loads more money. But we decided we had already accumulated enough so packed up the business, sold all our properties and started our wanderings wwhich first took us to Prague then to Spain. Prague was too 'underdeveloped' for a long stay so we moved to Spain, intending to stay a few years then move on to France then back to Scotland.
After a couple of years in Spain we decided to stay. A major factor in our decision was that Spaniards seem to have achieved a healthy sense of how to live well, valuing the things in life you can't put a price on....family, friends, quality leisure time.
Now I know that we no longer have to worry about school fees and such like and I do understand why some people - and many Spaniards now - are compelled to move round the world to find work. But I think it is something to be regretted for many people, not a cause for rejoicing.
That's all.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 30th December 2013, 02:24 PM
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Well, I'll say this for you, max, you have provided me with some interesting stuff to read. I owe the guy an apology....I should have written 'fantasist' not 'fascist'. Both undesirable but an important difference.
As for his theories....it's nothing new. It's a rehash of a theory from the 1930s, I believe, from an economist named Kondratiev. He noticed that boom and bust are cyclical and predictable.. All Armstrong has done is to add a bit of what Americans call 'math' and based his predictions, oddly, on calculations involving pi. A bit 'Mystic Meg'.
Now anyone who reads history knows that economic cycles in capitalism go back centuries. As I see it it's a matter of supply, demand and innovation, with a lot of intervention from totally unpredictable factors and events such as natural catastrophes. I have absolutely no time for any sociological or economic theories -or political ones for that matter - based on a mathematical-scientific model of human behaviour. It all seems rather deterministic and Marxist to me...in fact, rather 'socialist'.
Dogmatic theorists of left and right fail to take into account the sheer unpredictability of human reaction. These neat little theories are for a while modish and taken notice of but the fad soon passes. These strange people, usually but not always American, come and go like fashions in hair length...and have as much significance.
If you haven't read him already, can I suggest you look into the arch-priest of the 'free'market, Von Hayek? Mrs. Thatcher's favourite bed-time reading, I believe.
Some of it tripe, much of it relevant today but a more worthy guide than any pseudo-intellectual superficially plausible stuff than that emanating from Armstrong's keyboard.
But it was an interesting read...And btw, many people including some on this Forum have predicted a crash in 2015, in the UK at least. The crazy house-buying boom fuelled by public money will be a cause of a major calamity for many of the already in debt up to their eyeballs UK families when interest rates rise as they surely will.
Glad you read up on him, Blog | Armstrong Economics | Forecasting the World he does many updates per week on his blog and has a huge following. His models do not only follow economics but also war cycles, political cycles and more. Apparently 2014 is going to be an upturn in the war cycle, I hope he is wrong.

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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 30th December 2013, 02:59 PM
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I thought the government had ordered the banks not to kick out unemployed households if they didn't pay their mortgages. I can't remember the details but it still seemed a bit unfair as it appeared that households with one person working could still get kicked out for non-payment while those with nobody working couldn't.
Huh, the government can't order the banks to do anything! They issued some guidelines, making it slightly harder to evict households on very low incomes, but the law is still very much in the banks' favour. Some judges and ayuntamientos are managing to delay evictions by legal process.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 30th December 2013, 03:05 PM
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I'm not arguing for low wages (I think the minimum wage is a good idea) I just want companies to be able to hire someone to do a job for as long as that job lasts without having to subsequently pay them to stop work afterwards. Similarly I want people to have more freedom to change job and not be tied down to the same job for most of their working lives because changing jobs would mean losing lots of accrued benefits.

The Spanish labour market is blocked by people unable to change job because they have toom much job security, even though they have gone stale and are no longer motivated, and their job could be done better by someone younger. I don't think it is a coincidence that the countries with high job security and the "job for life" mentality are the ones that also have the highest youth uemployment.

Unions are great - as long as they behave like unions - which in Spain very few of them do. Most of them are made up of middle aged men (very few women) looking after themselves and going out on strike if they don't get what they personally want.

The UK did have an economic disaster - in the 70s - and several decades of economic decline, but you're right it wasn't caused by giving workers basic rights such as maternity leave, sick leave, etc, it was caused by individuals using the unions to gain political power. The UK unions were detroyed from the inside as will be the Spanish ones. Fortunately for the UK when the unions collapsed in the 80s many of the workers rights remained intact, and indeed the labour market was liberalised, allowing people to easily set up their own businesses and take control of their working lives. I fear that Spain might not be so lucky.

Globalisation is inevitable, as are open markets - unless you really want to stop people from different countries trading with each other? The problem is that it isn't happening in a controlled way. Peoples' businesses, the product of many years dedication, are having the rugs pulled out from under them by the speed of change. However when I speak to some of the immigrants in Spain, from places like China and Romania, and I hear how bad they have it back home, I see that the opening of borders has pulled people out of extreme poverty in those countries. For them the lives of the people in the op's video are a distant dream.
Excellent post Deserves more 'likes' than I can give.

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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 30th December 2013, 03:09 PM
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Glad you read up on him, Blog | Armstrong Economics | Forecasting the World he does many updates per week on his blog and has a huge following. His models do not only follow economics but also war cycles, political cycles and more. Apparently 2014 is going to be an upturn in the war cycle, I hope he is wrong.
I spent a lot of time reading him when I should have been doing other things. But stuff like that interests me and I get bored reading stuff I agree with.
As you know, I enjoy an argument!

Have they finished digging up the road in Devicka yet? It was a dreadful mess last year....

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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 30th December 2013, 03:14 PM
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Apparently 2014 is going to be an upturn in the war cycle, I hope he is wrong.
I'll definitely look at it. As for war...when has there ever been a time without war? Since and probably before humans stood on two legs we've been beating the **** out of each other. It's hot-wired into our nature.
Besides, it's good for business.....
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Old 30th December 2013, 03:44 PM
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. As for war...
it's good for business.....
...but sadly not for the population caught up in it!

Similar to the financial battle that is occurring...good for the big businesses that make money from the crisis and a small percentage of the wealthy but generally very bad for the people caught up in it!

If people were more self-sufficient, as they once were, growing the majority of what they need for food and earned a little money on the side to pay for extras then perhaps none of this would have been as bad for individuals, the reliance upon money to meet our living needs has been the downfall of many IMO.

Do we really need the big house, latest car, the new i-phone, to look like the celebrity...so sad that so many are chasing the dream that others appear to be living, when those that appear to be living that style are on endorsements that are designed to entice people into spending their money.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 30th December 2013, 03:57 PM
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...but sadly not for the population caught up in it!

Similar to the financial battle that is occurring...good for the big businesses that make money from the crisis and a small percentage of the wealthy but generally very bad for the people caught up in it!

If people were more self-sufficient, as they once were, growing the majority of what they need for food and earned a little money on the side to pay for extras then perhaps none of this would have been as bad for individuals, the reliance upon money to meet our living needs has been the downfall of many IMO.

Do we really need the big house, latest car, the new i-phone, to look like the celebrity...so sad that so many are chasing the dream that others appear to be living, when those that appear to be living that style are on endorsements that are designed to entice people into spending their money.
But all of those industries that make consumables to entice us, also employ us. In the end, money is only a promise and a bargaining tool

Jo xxx
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Old 30th December 2013, 04:16 PM
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With regards to the people in the video wanting Government to be more proactive with regards to getting new jobs, one of the big problem is big business itself. The employers that set up shop and employ up to and over 100 employees, many move to a location as there are Government enticements...they stay until better enticements from other areas, other countries sometimes or different factors such as when they can make higher profits from lower wages and just shut up shop and go.

In the meantime local authorities have employed people to administer the infrastructure required, which is possible from the tax revenues whilst these businesses are operating, but things quickly become a financial nightmare when the revenues from taxation disappear and you are left with insufficient funds to pay for your obligations.

The bigger the employer in an area the greater the risk for that area.

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Old 30th December 2013, 05:05 PM
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Have they finished digging up the road in Devicka yet? It was a dreadful mess last year....
Last time I was there it was still a mess, other side of town from me though. I finally got us a villa in the Canary Islands, so I will be able to complain more first hand now about Spanish stuff.
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