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-   -   just out of interest (https://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/19722-just-out-interest.html)

jojo 28th March 2009 09:01 PM

just out of interest
 
41 Attachment(s)
In the UK if a young girl falls pregnant, hasnt worked and has no help from the babies father or her parents, she generally would be given a council flat and welfare. What happens in Spain? Is the a similar welfare system or is it only paid out if its been paid in? I know there is some form of social housing but does it favour single mums etc???

I´m just curious?

Jo x

SteveHall 28th March 2009 11:19 PM

There is social housing here but a child is not a meal ticket in Spain.

Caz.I 29th March 2009 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveHall (Post 121347)
There is social housing here but a child is not a meal ticket in Spain.

:mad: A meal ticket! What are you on about??!! You seriously believe that all single mothers who claim benefits are using the child as a meal ticket? Welfare benefits for single mothers who tend to be at a serious social disadvantage in society hardly constitute a meal ticket. The fact is, and I know it is because I actually live it, to bring up a child alone in any society which values the strong over the weak, means a constant fight for survival. Especially here in Spain where large families are deemed morally acceptable and deserving of some compassion (though not that much) - hence some benefits but practically zero for single parent families - and one-parent ones less deserving. If there was a level playing field ie. fathers that take financial responsibility for their children and/or the opportunity for single mothers to either work part-time with some additional help, or full-time with working hours that coincide with school ones - ie. 9 to 5), then the need for financial help would be much less (though probably not right now with the credit crunch). There has long been talk here of more companies changing their opening hours to standard European ones but it hasnt happened yet. But you seem to be simply repeating old stereotypes of the Daily Mail/Express mindset that view anyone not in the conventional 2 parent family mould as somehow looking for a free ride. And that is not reality!! And its not on!!

Stravinsky 29th March 2009 02:09 PM

44 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Caz.I (Post 121420)
:mad: A meal ticket! What are you on about??!! You seriously believe that all single mothers who claim benefits are using the child as a meal ticket? Welfare benefits for single mothers who tend to be at a serious social disadvantage in society hardly constitute a meal ticket. The fact is, and I know it is because I actually live it, to bring up a child alone in any society which values the strong over the weak, means a constant fight for survival. Especially here in Spain where large families are deemed morally acceptable and deserving of some compassion (though not that much) - hence some benefits but practically zero for single parent families - and one-parent ones less deserving. If there was a level playing field ie. fathers that take financial responsibility for their children and/or the opportunity for single mothers to either work part-time with some additional help, or full-time with working hours that coincide with school ones - ie. 9 to 5), then the need for financial help would be much less (though probably not right now with the credit crunch). There has long been talk here of more companies changing their opening hours to standard European ones but it hasnt happened yet. But you seem to be simply repeating old stereotypes of the Daily Mail/Express mindset that view anyone not in the conventional 2 parent family mould as somehow looking for a free ride. And that is not reality!! And its not on!!

Thats an interesting first post considering you dont know the poster and his views, who I'm pretty sure was using that just as a turn of phrase

Caz.I 29th March 2009 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jojo (Post 121317)
In the UK if a young girl falls pregnant, hasnt worked and has no help from the babies father or her parents, she generally would be given a council flat and welfare. What happens in Spain? Is the a similar welfare system or is it only paid out if its been paid in? I know there is some form of social housing but does it favour single mums etc???

I´m just curious?

Jo x

Feel a bit better now I have got that last post out. Am not a complete expert in this, though as a single mother, having to learn about some of these things. But I imagine if she was under 18, Social Services may have to take her and her baby into care, rather than give her a council flat. Single mothers are not favoured here (see my previous post) in any sense. The only social housing I know of is VPO housing which is subsidised housing that anyone can apply to buy if they are on a low income. But it is totally over subscribed and I know from one of my friends who have applied, not necessarily that cheap (compared to council housing) and with possible dodgy deals between construction companies and town halls, can be as equally fraught with difficulties as the private market. If she was over 18 with no family help, she may end up on the streets, unless she could get help from Social Security or some kind of charity. The only specific help available for single mothers as far as I can tell, is 25 euros a month (yes a month!) from Social Security if you earn less than 11,000 euros a year. It is higher for large families, though not much but there tends to be more help for large families, and a single mother with 2 or more children is apparently (in theory may not be in practice) classed as large family in some situations. In the state schools and nurseries, in theory (!) you can get more points for your application and some discounts on school dinners or after school activities if you are a one parent or large family. The problem is proving it. I do get the same discount as most parents, but not as much as I would if I was recognised as a one parent family. Apparently, I didnt have the right paperwork, to prove it so, despite being a single mother since my son was born, the school wouldnt accept that I was a one parent family, though I was accepted as one when he was in the state nursery when I applied to the school - but thats Spanish bureaucracy for you. I wouldnt wish this lifestyle on anyone. Its not exactly a barrel of laughs. Still, I am lucky my son's father takes some responsibility for him and I do have every second weekend off motherhood which is more than most mums! So some of my married friends are jealous!

Caz.I 29th March 2009 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stravinsky (Post 121424)
Thats an interesting first post considering you dont know the poster and his views, who I'm pretty sure was using that just as a turn of phrase

Well, firstly, as you will note, that is why I used question marks in my first two sentences, as I was questioning why he used that particular turn of phrase. But, secondly, the phrase, "a child is not a meal ticket in Spain" referring as it does to social benefits here in Spain, in itself does tend to imply that the person posting believes there is a connection between single mothers claiming benefits and using children as an excuse not to work. Thirdly, having read a lot of posts on this site i was surprised to hear that expression from that particular person. But I am sure he is big enough and grown up enough to answer for himself, so let's see. And fourthly, its personally insulting, to be stereotyped in such a way, and I didnt think this site would encourage that.

Stravinsky 29th March 2009 02:56 PM

44 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Caz.I (Post 121434)
Well, firstly, as you will note, that is why I used question marks in my first two sentences, as I was questioning why he used that particular turn of phrase. But, secondly, the phrase, "a child is not a meal ticket in Spain" referring as it does to social benefits here in Spain, in itself does tend to imply that the person posting believes there is a connection between single mothers claiming benefits and using children as an excuse not to work. Thirdly, having read a lot of posts on this site i was surprised to hear that expression from that particular person. But I am sure he is big enough and grown up enough to answer for himself, so let's see. And fourthly, its personally insulting, to be stereotyped in such a way, and I didnt think this site would encourage that.

This forum, as does any forum around, allows everyone to have their point of view however much other people might agree with them. Free speech, within the rules of course.

jojo 29th March 2009 05:21 PM

41 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Caz.I (Post 121420)
:mad: A meal ticket! What are you on about??!! You seriously believe that all single mothers who claim benefits are using the child as a meal ticket? Welfare benefits for single mothers who tend to be at a serious social disadvantage in society hardly constitute a meal ticket. The fact is, and I know it is because I actually live it, to bring up a child alone in any society which values the strong over the weak, means a constant fight for survival. Especially here in Spain where large families are deemed morally acceptable and deserving of some compassion (though not that much) - hence some benefits but practically zero for single parent families - and one-parent ones less deserving. If there was a level playing field ie. fathers that take financial responsibility for their children and/or the opportunity for single mothers to either work part-time with some additional help, or full-time with working hours that coincide with school ones - ie. 9 to 5), then the need for financial help would be much less (though probably not right now with the credit crunch). There has long been talk here of more companies changing their opening hours to standard European ones but it hasnt happened yet. But you seem to be simply repeating old stereotypes of the Daily Mail/Express mindset that view anyone not in the conventional 2 parent family mould as somehow looking for a free ride. And that is not reality!! And its not on!!

I only asked!!! Personally I think if a girl gets pregnant she should be forced to marry the father LOL!!! Afterall, you dont buy a car if you cant afford and you shouldnt have a baby if you cant

Jo x

SteveHall 29th March 2009 08:39 PM

Wow! You must be happy to get that off your chest. So far this week I have been called an estate agent and a Daily Express reader! Whatever next? Gay? Arsenal fan?

I think that you have a weak understanding of the Spanish position on at least two matters

1) "There has long been talk here of more companies changing their opening hours to standard European ones but it hasnt happened " Why should it? Estamos en España.

and re their position on the number of children in a union. Perhaps it is best summed up as: La gloria de la familia es su fecundidad. Que un hombre y una mujer se una para ser felices y satisfacer sus pasiones no entraña ninguna nobleza especial, pero que una sus vidas en vistas a una obra que los trasciende, poniendo en el mundo a otros hombres que continuarán la tradición que ellos a su vez recibieron de sus padres, y que el fin de su matrimonio consista en la creación del ambiente mas favorable al nacimiento y educación de los hijos, eso da al matrimonio una nobleza tal, que ennoblece a los que a él se consagran.

Las familias numerosas contribuyen a la unión de los esposos y a la educación de los hijos. Esto es discutido por algunos sociólogos, pero para demostrarlo reproduciremos las conclusiones de algunos estudios científicos al respecto.

...and that is perhaps why I am Yorkshire by birth and español de corazón.

jojo 29th March 2009 09:46 PM

41 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveHall (Post 121524)
Wow! You must be happy to get that off your chest. So far this week I have been called an estate agent and a Daily Express reader! Whatever next? Gay? Arsenal fan?

I think that you have a weak understanding of the Spanish position on at least two matters

1) "There has long been talk here of more companies changing their opening hours to standard European ones but it hasnt happened " Why should it? Estamos en España.

and re their position on the number of children in a union. Perhaps it is best summed up as: La gloria de la familia es su fecundidad. Que un hombre y una mujer se una para ser felices y satisfacer sus pasiones no entraña ninguna nobleza especial, pero que una sus vidas en vistas a una obra que los trasciende, poniendo en el mundo a otros hombres que continuarán la tradición que ellos a su vez recibieron de sus padres, y que el fin de su matrimonio consista en la creación del ambiente mas favorable al nacimiento y educación de los hijos, eso da al matrimonio una nobleza tal, que ennoblece a los que a él se consagran.

Las familias numerosas contribuyen a la unión de los esposos y a la educación de los hijos. Esto es discutido por algunos sociólogos, pero para demostrarlo reproduciremos las conclusiones de algunos estudios científicos al respecto.

...and that is perhaps why I am Yorkshire by birth and español de corazón.

Cos I´m now totally fluent in spanish, I understand all of that and totally agree!!!!! Hey, you could employ me now Steve LOL!!!

Jo xxxx


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