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-   -   just out of interest (https://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/19722-just-out-interest.html)

jojo 29th March 2009 10:29 PM

41 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveHall (Post 121568)
I like a woman with a sense of humour. One day you'll get one LOL


huh! and what about women that sulk?? :(:(:(;)

Jo

SteveHall 29th March 2009 10:31 PM

Oh, I find a way to make them happy!

Caz.I 29th March 2009 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveHall (Post 121524)
Wow! You must be happy to get that off your chest. So far this week I have been called an estate agent and a Daily Express reader! Whatever next? Gay? Arsenal fan?

I think that you have a weak understanding of the Spanish position on at least two matters

1) "There has long been talk here of more companies changing their opening hours to standard European ones but it hasnt happened " Why should it? Estamos en España.

and re their position on the number of children in a union. Perhaps it is best summed up as: La gloria de la familia es su fecundidad. Que un hombre y una mujer se una para ser felices y satisfacer sus pasiones no entraña ninguna nobleza especial, pero que una sus vidas en vistas a una obra que los trasciende, poniendo en el mundo a otros hombres que continuarán la tradición que ellos a su vez recibieron de sus padres, y que el fin de su matrimonio consista en la creación del ambiente mas favorable al nacimiento y educación de los hijos, eso da al matrimonio una nobleza tal, que ennoblece a los que a él se consagran.

Las familias numerosas contribuyen a la unión de los esposos y a la educación de los hijos. Esto es discutido por algunos sociólogos, pero para demostrarlo reproduciremos las conclusiones de algunos estudios científicos al respecto.

...and that is perhaps why I am Yorkshire by birth and español de corazón.

If you read my post a bit more carefully, you will see that I was not directly calling you a Daily Express/Mail reader, (think may be better to be called gay) but I said you seemed to be repeating the same stereotypes that they promote and was questioning what your comment meant. (And you still havent explained it!) I do find stereotypes offensive because though they might not intend to cause offence, they frequently do by their very nature. Words can hurt, which is why I try to use them with great care. I was angry because there's too much prejudice about single mothers, which usually does not reflect the reality of people's lives, and I have to stand up for myself, cos I dont depend on anyone to do it for me.
The bit about the change of working hours to the European standard hours, was something I had heard Spanish companies were keen to implement, its difficult to know if that really is the case, but I thought it would be a good solution for a lot of people, Spanish single mothers and married mothers or fathers, or whoever. My theory is that if you actually make it easier for single mothers to work, then it will help reduce the need for welfare benefits. I think that is to be encouraged, dont you?
I am well aware that I am in Spain, I communicate in Spanish most of the time, I have relations that are South American, my son so far only speaks Spanish having been born here to a South American father and in a state nursery and then state school (with few foreigners). I do translations from time to time, hold Spanish speaking meetings in my home, do legal research in Spanish and deal with paper mountains of Spanish paperwork, schools, the Junta, Hacienda. That isnt the problem. And one's nationality doesnt necessarily prevent one from having a valid opinion or mean that suggesting change is some kind of attempt to impose one culture on another. So I understand your quote in Spanish and dont have a problem with it per se, but it doesnt explain the need to discriminate.
Dont think I have a weak understanding of the Spanish position, but feel that the historical political, social and religous background influences the reaction to the new reality of single mothers, be they divorced, widowed, abandoned, separated whatever. There is some attempts to readjust to this new reality but I have found that the people on the frontline of various institutions tend to resist it. Its certainly not something that is the sole concern of immigrants, for I know personally it is a growing problem for many Spanish women. And like I said in another post, my son will be Spanish, whether I like it or not!

SteveHall 29th March 2009 10:58 PM

Final comment: I am trying to remember when my last partner was NOT a single parent. So, whilst, you may want to wear your domestic situation on your sleeve, I and (I and all the others) have the right to an opinion.

I DO think you misunderstand the stance re the familia numerosa as these families ARE positively discriminated in favour of which tells me that this is what the state wishes to promote.

I have ABSOLUTELY no problem whether you are black or white, Latvian or lesbian, a single-parent or in a 2,3 suburban married relationship. I am NO WAY going to discriminate against you. You are entirely carbon-neutral to me. (Just tell me you are not an estate agent or a Mail reader LOL)

jojo 29th March 2009 10:59 PM

41 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Caz.I (Post 121577)
If you read my post a bit more carefully, you will see that I was not directly calling you a Daily Express/Mail reader, (think may be better to be called gay) but I said you seemed to be repeating the same stereotypes that they promote and was questioning what your comment meant. (And you still havent explained it!) I do find stereotypes offensive because though they might not intend to cause offence, they frequently do by their very nature. Words can hurt, which is why I try to use them with great care. I was angry because there's too much prejudice about single mothers, which usually does not reflect the reality of people's lives, and I have to stand up for myself, cos I dont depend on anyone to do it for me.
The bit about the change of working hours to the European standard hours, was something I had heard Spanish companies were keen to implement, its difficult to know if that really is the case, but I thought it would be a good solution for a lot of people, Spanish single mothers and married mothers or fathers, or whoever. My theory is that if you actually make it easier for single mothers to work, then it will help reduce the need for welfare benefits. I think that is to be encouraged, dont you?
I am well aware that I am in Spain, I communicate in Spanish most of the time, I have relations that are South American, my son so far only speaks Spanish having been born here to a South American father and in a state nursery and then state school (with few foreigners). I do translations from time to time, hold Spanish speaking meetings in my home, do legal research in Spanish and deal with paper mountains of Spanish paperwork, schools, the Junta, Hacienda. That isnt the problem. And one's nationality doesnt necessarily prevent one from having a valid opinion or mean that suggesting change is some kind of attempt to impose one culture on another. So I understand your quote in Spanish and dont have a problem with it per se, but it doesnt explain the need to discriminate.
Dont think I have a weak understanding of the Spanish position, but feel that the historical political, social and religous background influences the reaction to the new reality of single mothers, be they divorced, widowed, abandoned, separated whatever. There is some attempts to readjust to this new reality but I have found that the people on the frontline of various institutions tend to resist it. Its certainly not something that is the sole concern of immigrants, for I know personally it is a growing problem for many Spanish women. And like I said in another post, my son will be Spanish, whether I like it or not!

I´m sure steve will answer you in his own way. All I wanted to know was if the spanish system was similar to the UK, which IS where alot of girls have babies as "meal tickets" cos they get so many benefits etc FACT, like it or not! The political depths and profound social rights or wrongs in Spain are of no interest to me other than we should all be capable of paying for our round and children should be thought about before they´re conceived!



Nite all
Jo x

Stravinsky 30th March 2009 08:40 AM

44 Attachment(s)
Oooeeer

Two things

One: Interpretation of the rules is down to me, if you have a complaint then speak to admin rather than discuss on here

Two: As stated, please in future only post in English, which is the language of the forum. I wont delete those now, as it will screw up the flow of the thread, but no more in future please

SteveHall 30th March 2009 09:14 AM

Sorry, Strav. I had never seen that we had to write in English only. My fault.

Apologies to all.

DH1875 30th March 2009 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caz.I (Post 121577)
If you read my post a bit more carefully, you will see that I was not directly calling you a Daily Express/Mail reader, (think may be better to be called gay) but I said you seemed to be repeating the same stereotypes that they promote and was questioning what your comment meant. (And you still havent explained it!) I do find stereotypes offensive because though they might not intend to cause offence, they frequently do by their very nature. Words can hurt, which is why I try to use them with great care. I was angry because there's too much prejudice about single mothers, which usually does not reflect the reality of people's lives, and I have to stand up for myself, cos I dont depend on anyone to do it for me.
The bit about the change of working hours to the European standard hours, was something I had heard Spanish companies were keen to implement, its difficult to know if that really is the case, but I thought it would be a good solution for a lot of people, Spanish single mothers and married mothers or fathers, or whoever. My theory is that if you actually make it easier for single mothers to work, then it will help reduce the need for welfare benefits. I think that is to be encouraged, dont you?
I am well aware that I am in Spain, I communicate in Spanish most of the time, I have relations that are South American, my son so far only speaks Spanish having been born here to a South American father and in a state nursery and then state school (with few foreigners). I do translations from time to time, hold Spanish speaking meetings in my home, do legal research in Spanish and deal with paper mountains of Spanish paperwork, schools, the Junta, Hacienda. That isnt the problem. And one's nationality doesnt necessarily prevent one from having a valid opinion or mean that suggesting change is some kind of attempt to impose one culture on another. So I understand your quote in Spanish and dont have a problem with it per se, but it doesnt explain the need to discriminate.
Dont think I have a weak understanding of the Spanish position, but feel that the historical political, social and religous background influences the reaction to the new reality of single mothers, be they divorced, widowed, abandoned, separated whatever. There is some attempts to readjust to this new reality but I have found that the people on the frontline of various institutions tend to resist it. Its certainly not something that is the sole concern of immigrants, for I know personally it is a growing problem for many Spanish women. And like I said in another post, my son will be Spanish, whether I like it or not!

You go girl, good for you and remember don't take crap from no one:).

jojo 30th March 2009 01:22 PM

41 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by DH1875 (Post 121795)
You go girl, good for you and remember don't take crap from no one:).

:D:D:D:D:D

jo x

Xose 30th March 2009 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caz.I (Post 121564)
Pero, no son solamente inmigrantes que son madres solteras, espanolas sufren tambien. Ademas, los hijos de madres solteras que nacieron aqui en espana sean de inmigrantes o no, son espanoles tambien. O supongas que no? Personalmente, el padre de mi hijo es sudamericano, mi hijo solo habla castellano todavia y vivo en un ambiente espanol. Si podais aceptar este realidad significa madurez como un pais multicultural. Y cada pais o cultura tiene un valor inherente y algo especial contribuir. Vamos a ver.
(In English, now for those who may be reading this and are not fluent in Spanish - and also because have just realised that the rules say postings should be in English)
But, its not only immigrants who are single mothers, Spanish women also suffer. Besides, the children of single mothers who are born in Spain will be Spanish as well. Or do you think not? Personally, the father of my son is South American, my son speaks only Spanish yet and I live in a Spanish environment. If you can accept this reality it signifies maturity as a multicultural country. And each country or culture has an inherent value and something special ton contribute. Let's see.

Hi Caz,
Sorry, my post was a comparitive between the UK and Spanish governments and their already stated aims at addressing the lack of population growth, increased life expectancy and the problems that will bring in future pensions. The UK has openly stated it is prepared to instigate and promote a selective inmigration process. The Spanish government are clearly rewarding the large family option.

Whilst I respect and like to read that which Steve posted, I'm not sure I would give too much weight to the "Rome" line (not that this is what it was Steve, just read a bit like it:)) and prefer to see things for what I think they really are.

As for single mothers, what can I say, c'est la vie and I'm not qualified to comment one way or the other. In any case, I do think that the classic "me thinks the lady doth protest too much" might be a danger here what with all guns blazing, collateral damage and all that.


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