Residency Vs Tax Residency - Page 3

Go Back   Expat Forum For People Moving Overseas And Living Abroad > Europe > Spain Expat Forum for Expats Living in Spain

Spain Expat Forum for Expats Living in Spain The Spain Expats forum is a dedicated community of people who have moved to Spain, or who are planning to. This is the place for Expats to meet and discuss anything about moving to, & living in, Spain.

Like Tree25Likes

Residency Vs Tax Residency - Page 3


Reply
 
Subscribe to this Thread Thread Tools
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 21st January 2020, 02:47 PM
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 18
Rep Power: 0
Rich & Wendy is on a distinguished road
5 likes received
1 likes given

Default

I too have today spoken with a Blevins Franks partner based in Javea, and he confirmed to me that, as long as we do not apply for residency until the second half of this year, then we will not be liable to pay tax in Spain until 2021 (all assets etc to be declared early 2022).
So if we buy property in Spain and move over in the latter part of the year, CGT will not be payable if we sell our UK home in 2020.
The overriding deciding factor in establishing tax residency he told me is the 183 day rule - spend most of the year in the UK equals pay your tax in the UK.
Megsmum likes this.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 21st January 2020, 02:54 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 76
Rep Power: 33
fortrose52 is a jewel in the roughfortrose52 is a jewel in the roughfortrose52 is a jewel in the rough
69 likes received
478 likes given

Default

Thank you. Good to know

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 21st January 2020, 03:41 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Malaga 34 years
Posts: 837
Rep Power: 1386
Juan C has a reputation beyond reputeJuan C has a reputation beyond reputeJuan C has a reputation beyond reputeJuan C has a reputation beyond reputeJuan C has a reputation beyond reputeJuan C has a reputation beyond reputeJuan C has a reputation beyond reputeJuan C has a reputation beyond reputeJuan C has a reputation beyond reputeJuan C has a reputation beyond reputeJuan C has a reputation beyond repute
373 likes received
32 likes given

Users Flag! Originally from uk. Users Flag! Expat in spain.
Default

It would appear there is some confusion as the internet web page for Blevins franks does not agree with posts here :

https://www.blevinsfranks.com/news/a...ence-and-taxes

The Spanish tax residence rules

You are resident for tax purposes in Spain IF ANY OF THE FOLLOWING APPLY

1) You spend more than 183 days in Spain cumulatively in a calendar year, whether or not you are formally registered. Temporary or sporadic absences are ignored for the purpose of this rule unless you can prove you are habitually resident in another country for over 183 days.

2) Your “centre of economic interests” is in Spain– i.e. the base for your economic or professional activities is in Spain. If you earn more income or have more assets here than in any other single country, Spain will be deemed the centre of economic activity,

3) Your “centre of vital interests” is in Spain – i.e. your spouse lives here and/or your dependent minor children. In this case you are presumed Spanish resident, even if you spend less than 183 days here, unless you can prove otherwise.

There is no split-year treatment in Spain; you are either resident or non-resident for the whole fiscal year.
snikpoh, baldilocks and Megsmum like this.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 21st January 2020, 05:17 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: England
Posts: 51
Rep Power: 0
Pipeman is on a distinguished road
32 likes received

Users Flag! Originally from uk. Users Flag! Expat in uk.
Default

Juan, I think there is a misunderstanding here.

For me, and no doubt several others, moving after the beginning of July means we don't fall foul of point 1) the 183 day rule

Assuming (for those who may be working (not me)) that earnings are less in Spain than the UK then point 2) is moot as there is no split year treatment. I'm certain no one will be transferring all their assets to Spain on day 1 (pensions, SIPP's, ISA's etc are all assets along with any property held in the UK).

Point 3) is based on factors not discussed here and I suspect not applicable to any of us as we would not be seeking answers on this forum as we would have direct access to family in Spain...

For 99.9% of us seeking to move out of the UK before the end of transition, then only point 1 is of concern.
Megsmum likes this.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 21st January 2020, 05:45 PM
baldilocks's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Castillo de Locubín in the Sierra Sur de Jaén, Spain
Posts: 17,257
Rep Power: 129722
baldilocks has a reputation beyond reputebaldilocks has a reputation beyond reputebaldilocks has a reputation beyond reputebaldilocks has a reputation beyond reputebaldilocks has a reputation beyond reputebaldilocks has a reputation beyond reputebaldilocks has a reputation beyond reputebaldilocks has a reputation beyond reputebaldilocks has a reputation beyond reputebaldilocks has a reputation beyond reputebaldilocks has a reputation beyond repute
9537 likes received
15536 likes given

Users Flag! Originally from england. Users Flag! Expat in spain.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pipeman View Post
Juan, I think there is a misunderstanding here.

For me, and no doubt several others, moving after the beginning of July means we don't fall foul of point 1) the 183 day rule

Assuming (for those who may be working (not me)) that earnings are less in Spain than the UK then point 2) is moot as there is no split year treatment. I'm certain no one will be transferring all their assets to Spain on day 1 (pensions, SIPP's, ISA's etc are all assets along with any property held in the UK).

Point 3) is based on factors not discussed here and I suspect not applicable to any of us as we would not be seeking answers on this forum as we would have direct access to family in Spain...

For 99.9% of us seeking to move out of the UK before the end of transition, then only point 1 is of concern.
Nope. As pointed out earlier in the thread, if you move your centre of economic interest - family/ family home or employment, you are immediately considered tax resident in Spain UNLESS you can prove otherwise. N.B. in that case 183 day rule does not apply.
snikpoh likes this.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 21st January 2020, 05:54 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: England
Posts: 51
Rep Power: 0
Pipeman is on a distinguished road
32 likes received

Users Flag! Originally from uk. Users Flag! Expat in uk.
Default

So you are saying that if I move to Spain on 30th December and start a new job on the same day I'm tax resident in Spain, even if I'd worked for 11 months and 29 days in the UK.... ?

I don't buy that, there is no split year treatment... and it's obvious in this instance Spain isn't it...

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 21st January 2020, 05:58 PM
baldilocks's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Castillo de Locubín in the Sierra Sur de Jaén, Spain
Posts: 17,257
Rep Power: 129722
baldilocks has a reputation beyond reputebaldilocks has a reputation beyond reputebaldilocks has a reputation beyond reputebaldilocks has a reputation beyond reputebaldilocks has a reputation beyond reputebaldilocks has a reputation beyond reputebaldilocks has a reputation beyond reputebaldilocks has a reputation beyond reputebaldilocks has a reputation beyond reputebaldilocks has a reputation beyond reputebaldilocks has a reputation beyond repute
9537 likes received
15536 likes given

Users Flag! Originally from england. Users Flag! Expat in spain.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pipeman View Post
So you are saying that if I move to Spain on 30th December and start a new job on the same day I'm tax resident in Spain, even if I'd worked for 11 months and 29 days in the UK.... ?

I don't buy that, there is no split year treatment... and it's obvious in this instance Spain isn't it...
You would have to argue your case, it would not be automatic but I've no doubt that Spain wouldn't be so picky anyway. If you moved in, say October, you may well have more difficulty in getting round the Spanish rule.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 21st January 2020, 09:52 PM
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 18
Rep Power: 0
Rich & Wendy is on a distinguished road
5 likes received
1 likes given

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan C View Post
It would appear there is some confusion as the internet web page for Blevins franks does not agree with posts here :

https://www.blevinsfranks.com/news/a...ence-and-taxes

The Spanish tax residence rules

You are resident for tax purposes in Spain IF ANY OF THE FOLLOWING APPLY

1) You spend more than 183 days in Spain cumulatively in a calendar year, whether or not you are formally registered. Temporary or sporadic absences are ignored for the purpose of this rule unless you can prove you are habitually resident in another country for over 183 days.

2) Your “centre of economic interests” is in Spain– i.e. the base for your economic or professional activities is in Spain. If you earn more income or have more assets here than in any other single country, Spain will be deemed the centre of economic activity,

3) Your “centre of vital interests” is in Spain – i.e. your spouse lives here and/or your dependent minor children. In this case you are presumed Spanish resident, even if you spend less than 183 days here, unless you can prove otherwise.

There is no split-year treatment in Spain; you are either resident or non-resident for the whole fiscal year.
Juan, you quoted Blevins Franks earlier, stating that was the law...I am quite literally quoting a Blevins Franks partner speaking directly to me on the phone today, and you don't believe it...?

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 22nd January 2020, 05:29 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Malaga 34 years
Posts: 837
Rep Power: 1386
Juan C has a reputation beyond reputeJuan C has a reputation beyond reputeJuan C has a reputation beyond reputeJuan C has a reputation beyond reputeJuan C has a reputation beyond reputeJuan C has a reputation beyond reputeJuan C has a reputation beyond reputeJuan C has a reputation beyond reputeJuan C has a reputation beyond reputeJuan C has a reputation beyond reputeJuan C has a reputation beyond repute
373 likes received
32 likes given

Users Flag! Originally from uk. Users Flag! Expat in spain.
Default

Rick Wendy
I did not say what I believe but as you have been given advice which appears contrary to their web page, maybe it would be wise for you to ask them why that is Both positions cannot be correct I think

I would be interested to know what their explanation is

Good luck John
snikpoh, Overandout and Megsmum like this.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 24th January 2020, 01:34 PM
New Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 15
Rep Power: 0
ShoulIStayOrShouldIGo is on a distinguished road
2 likes received
3 likes given

Default

I might start a new thread on this as my question is related but different to the thread title. But before I do that I just need to know:

Is official Tax Residency and Residency considered to be the same thing?

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Expat Forum For People Moving Overseas And Living Abroad forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Location
Where you live
Expat From Country
Please select the country you originate from. This will appear as a flag when you make posts on the site.
Expat To Country
Please select the country you have either moved to or want to relocate to. This will be presented on the site when you make posts.

Log-in


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


FORUM PARTNERS

ExpatForum.com is owned and operated by VerticalScope Inc.

Retiring Overseas Guides | Moving Overseas Guides | Cost of Living | Health Care Guides


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.