Strategies for spending over 90/180 days + access to healthcare in post Brexit Spain - Page 5

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Strategies for spending over 90/180 days + access to healthcare in post Brexit Spain - Page 5


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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 26th October 2019, 04:38 PM
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Steve.

Albeit that the green cert of residence does not say it, you need to apply now to become permanent. It is not automatic

You need to make the appointment online and when you attend the office you will need to prove your income and full medical cover, in the same way you did five years ago

This might help :-


TO MAKE AN APPOINTMENT WITH THE POLICE FOR NIE, E.U. Citizen registration, etc.

As you go through you will find links to the application forms and the payment, at any bank, form

.• GO TO https://sede.administracionespublicas.gob.es/icpplus/

• PROVINCES AVAILABLE: CHOOSE the province where your are living/ staying

• SECTIONS AVAILABLE IN PROVINCE: OPEN PAGE AND SELECT SECTION REQUIRED

e.g. “policía certificado de residente o no residente” (that includes NIE application)
NOTE there is now a special section for UK citizens which must be chosen that is “Polica-Certificada EU (Exclusivamente para Reina Unido)

• ENTER THE DETAILS OF APPLICANT. if you have an NIE show that, if not then show your passport number

• CHOOSE NATIONAL POLICE STATION FOR APPOINTMENT: The one that covers the area where you live
Motivo o tipo de solicitud de la cita, show reason for requesting appointment

• CHOOSE AN APPOINTMENT, AND THEN CONFIRM. If the office you require us not shown that means there are no appointments available at the moment so please try again later

• You must PRINT A COPY OF THE APPOINTMENT, and take it with you to the police station
You can find info here in english about completing the EX15


http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consula...0-%20GUIDE.pdf
Under EU rules you automatically become a permanent resident after five years of continuously living legally in Spain but if you want to swap your A4 green paper for a new credit card size document containing the words "residente con caracter permanente" you will need to make an application and pay the appropriate fee. You do not need to show evidence of income or medical cover, as with a first-time application. You only need to show evidence that you have lived continuously and legally in Spain for five years, which is pretty simple. However, according to the local press this week Madrid has ordered all police stations to stop processing residency applications from Brits. They have a picture of a sign at Benidorm police station advising that all applications must be made via the foreigners´ office in Alicante. Presumably this is because of Brexit and the fact that all Brits will need to replace their residency certificates with a TIE before much longer! Having a card confirming that you are a permanent resident will make the application for a TIE an automatic, no questions asked process. Without one there will be a need to produce a little more paperwork.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 26th October 2019, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Williams2 View Post
All the rules remain the same for EU citizens who move to the UK and take up residence in Britain and of course for
British citizens who move to one of the EU 27 countries and take up residence during the transition period.
So we've been told by HMG & the EU.
No visa required during the transition period therefore the only difference is that British MEP's will no longer sit
in the European Parliament.

Of course if Britain leaves the EU without a deal - then there's no transition period at all.
I stand corrected and have ow found this (in French) since you chose not to provide a link, although I had requested one https://brexit.gouv.fr/sites/brexit/...au-sejour.html
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 26th October 2019, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by The Skipper View Post
Under EU rules you automatically become a permanent resident after five years of continuously living legally in Spain but if you want to swap your A4 green paper for a new credit card size document containing the words "residente con caracter permanente" you will need to make an application and pay the appropriate fee. You do not need to show evidence of income or medical cover, as with a first-time application. You only need to show evidence that you have lived continuously and legally in Spain for five years, which is pretty simple. However, according to the local press this week Madrid has ordered all police stations to stop processing residency applications from Brits. They have a picture of a sign at Benidorm police station advising that all applications must be made via the foreigners´ office in Alicante. Presumably this is because of Brexit and the fact that all Brits will need to replace their residency certificates with a TIE before much longer! Having a card confirming that you are a permanent resident will make the application for a TIE an automatic, no questions asked process. Without one there will be a need to produce a little more paperwork.
I’m afraid that’s not correct. Whilst the EU says that, it is up to the country concerned as to what they ask for re applying for a permanent residency card as you described.
I know this because we have recently applied for ours. We had to show everything we showed originally. This was questioned on the forum so I wrote to the Citizens section of the EU and received this response


Quote:
Dear Madam,

Thank you for getting in touch with Your Europe Advice.

Your question relates to the formalities you must comply with in order to obtain the confirmation of your lawful permanent residence in Spain.

You are a UK citizen and you currently live in Spain as a self-employed person.

You wonder how you may be able to obtain confirmation of your permanent residence status in Spain, given that you have lived in Spain for more than 5 years. You wonder whether the authorities may require you to disclose details of your income, setting a base target, translate documents in the same way that was done when you first applied for your registration certificate.

Permanent residence is governed by article 16 Directive 2004/38; implemented under Spanish law by virtue of Real Decreto 240/07.

In order to qualify for the status of permanent residence under article 16 Directive 2004/38, you must establish that you have exercised your rights in Spain for a continuous period of at least 5 years in accordance with the provisions under article 7 (Directive 2004/38), as a worker, self-employed, student, or self-sufficient person.

Arguably, in the light of the indications provided in your post, it appears that you are eligible for the right of permanent residence in Spain.

We do not have sufficient elements of fact to assess your post and your situation. Having said that, we must also respond by stating that the Spanish authorities are entitled to require you to prove your claim. If this means having to prove details of your income, requiring you to translate documents etc, this is what you are required to do, in order to prove your claim.

Also note that the Spanish Council of Ministers published a statutory scheme for UK citizens which would apply in the case of a no deal Brexit.

The Royal Decree-Law lays down a transition period from free movement to the general immigration regime for British citizens and their family members. http://www.lamoncloa.gob.es/consejod...acebrexit.aspx

In this way, in order to prove the legal residence for UK citizens and family members, certificates of registration issued to UK citizen, issued prior to the date of withdrawal will maintain their validity, in accordance with Directive 2004/38.

With regard to those UK citizens who have not been able to obtain a registration certificate before the date of withdrawal, their legal residence is maintained until their situation is definitively resolved.

UK citizens and family members must request, before December 31, 2020, the Foreigner Identity Card, a document that will definitively prove their legal residence in Spain.

The Government will approve instructions and guidance which will clarify the procedure during this transitional period, within the general legal scheme for nationals of a third state.

If UK citizens already had a permanent residence certificate as an EU citizen, the process will be almost automatic.

Where this is not possible, UK citizens will be granted temporary residence, depending on the residence time accredited, in accordance with the general legislation.

The issuance of new residence documents is a complex process since it is estimated that it will affect around 400,000 people, which requires a relatively long period that has been set at 21 months from the date of withdrawal (lasting until the end of December 2020).

So, yes it’s automatic but equally, yes if the authorities in your area require proof of income etc they are within their rights

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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 26th October 2019, 09:08 PM
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I’m afraid that’s not correct. Whilst the EU says that, it is up to the country concerned as to what they ask for re applying for a permanent residency card as you described.
I know this because we have recently applied for ours. We had to show everything we showed originally. This was questioned on the forum so I wrote to the Citizens section of the EU and received this response





So, yes it’s automatic but equally, yes if the authorities in your area require proof of income etc they are within their rights
I am astonished to read this as it contradicts everything I have read from various other sources and it certainly has not been my experience or the experience of numerous other people that I have read about. I applied for my permanent residency card last year at Alcoy police station and it could not have been a more simple, hassle-free process. The lady who processed my application questioned why I was doing it because she said I was already a permanent resident due to the length of time I had lived in Spain and did not therefore need a new bit of paper to prove it. I explained to her my fears about Brexit and she said that was fine, if I wanted a card with "permanente" on it that was not a problem. My wife accompanied me but could not get her own appointment until a few days later. However, when I explained this the lady said that was not a problem and issued her with a new card as well (we had all her paperwork with us in the hope that this might prove possible). We took with us only our passports, our original A4 green residency forms (issued in 2008), up-to-date padrons and the proof of payment forms (exactly as advised by an expat web site that this forum´s rules do not allow me to mention!). I suppose I should not be too surprised that other parts of Spain do things differently!
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 27th October 2019, 05:30 AM
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Whether one chooses to take one view on this based differing experiences is for the individual. However if you take the paperwork I showed and the officials do not need it, great. If you do not take it and you are not permitted to make the application you will need to make another appointment to produce the paperwork.

It’s your choice
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 27th October 2019, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by The Skipper View Post
I am astonished to read this as it contradicts everything I have read from various other sources and it certainly has not been my experience or the experience of numerous other people that I have read about. I applied for my permanent residency card last year at Alcoy police station and it could not have been a more simple, hassle-free process. The lady who processed my application questioned why I was doing it because she said I was already a permanent resident due to the length of time I had lived in Spain and did not therefore need a new bit of paper to prove it. I explained to her my fears about Brexit and she said that was fine, if I wanted a card with "permanente" on it that was not a problem. My wife accompanied me but could not get her own appointment until a few days later. However, when I explained this the lady said that was not a problem and issued her with a new card as well (we had all her paperwork with us in the hope that this might prove possible). We took with us only our passports, our original A4 green residency forms (issued in 2008), up-to-date padrons and the proof of payment forms (exactly as advised by an expat web site that this forum´s rules do not allow me to mention!). I suppose I should not be too surprised that other parts of Spain do things differently!


As was I, we applied originally and we were told to return with the relevant documents. I then contacted my solicitor who told us, that yes, here in Extremadura, that was indeed the case. So we returned with the relevant documents and got our residente permanente.

That’s why I contacted the EU citizens section of the EU. Also, as has recently been declared, can’t find link but I’ll keep checking. The requirements for a transfer to a TIE have been devolved to each Regional government.

As you say, I am also surprised that people don’t realise things vary from one region , one town and one village to another

Edited

Interesting that you became resident before the changes in 2012; I wonder if this has a relevance on it. We arrived in 2014 after the income , healthcare etc rules were introduced?
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Last edited by Megsmum; 27th October 2019 at 09:18 AM.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 27th October 2019, 09:53 AM
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Interesting that you became resident before the changes in 2012; I wonder if this has a relevance on it. We arrived in 2014 after the income , healthcare etc rules were introduced?
I wonder that too. We first registered as residents on 1 February 2007 and obtained our new permanent resident certificates in October 2014, in Torre del Mar, Andalucia. We were only asked for the same things as The Skipper was, but it has been mentioned on this forum more recently that people requesting permanent resident certificates had been asked to provide proof of sufficient income and healthcare, at the same office. A couple of weeks ago my husband had to replace his as it had been lost, and that was no problem, we were not asked to provide any additional documentation (other than a copy of the denuncia made to the Policia Nacional to report the loss).
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 27th October 2019, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Megsmum View Post
As was I, we applied originally and we were told to return with the relevant documents. I then contacted my solicitor who told us, that yes, here in Extremadura, that was indeed the case. So we returned with the relevant documents and got our residente permanente.

That’s why I contacted the EU citizens section of the EU. Also, as has recently been declared, can’t find link but I’ll keep checking. The requirements for a transfer to a TIE have been devolved to each Regional government.

As you say, I am also surprised that people don’t realise things vary from one region , one town and one village to another

Edited

Interesting that you became resident before the changes in 2012; I wonder if this has a relevance on it. We arrived in 2014 after the income , healthcare etc rules were introduced?
All that was required from me to get my residente permanente in the Principado de Asturias last year
was the Ministerio de Empleo y Seguridad Social report on my work history
since arriving to start work in Spain back in 2013.
It's sent to me automatically by post every 3 years and lists my working history, together with an
itemised list of my gross monthly salary, that's notified by my employer to the Ministerio de Empleo
y Seguridad Social.

This working history report ticked all the boxes and was more than sufficient for me to get my residente permanente other than my Passport and my old green residente card. Nothing more was needed
from me.

In fact I took it to the appointment for my application for residente permanente before I even knew
what would be expected from me because anything from the Ministerio de Empleo y Seguridad Social
is accepted without quibble.

Here's an example below:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Informe de vida laboral.jpg (40.2 KB, 6 views)

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Last edited by Williams2; 27th October 2019 at 10:31 AM.
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Old 27th October 2019, 10:38 AM
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One way of Proving income and medical cover is to prove that one is employed in Spain .

That applies equally whether applying for the first temporary green cert or the permanent one after five years
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Last edited by Juan C; 27th October 2019 at 10:41 AM.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 27th October 2019, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Williams2 View Post
All that was required from me to get my residente permanente in the Principado de Asturias last year
was the Ministerio de Empleo y Seguridad Social report on my work history
since arriving to start work in Spain back in 2013.
It's sent to me automatically by post every 3 years and lists my working history, together with an
itemised list of my gross monthly salary, that's notified by my employer to the Ministerio de Empleo
y Seguridad Social.

This working history report ticked all the boxes and was more than sufficient for me to get my residente permanente other than my Passport and my old green residente card. Nothing more was needed
from me.

In fact I took it to the appointment for my application for residente permanente before I even knew
what would be expected from me because anything from the Ministerio de Empleo y Seguridad Social
is accepted without quibble.

Here's an example below:
So, in fact you had to prove income and healthcare via the work. No difference to me then
Income. Autónomo And savings
HC because I’m autónomo
Original residency certificate

So yes, we provided the same with no quibble. The quibble was when we arrived with non of those documents.
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