MERGED....Declaration of Overseas assets to Spanish Tax Authority

Go Back   Expat Forum For People Moving Overseas And Living Abroad > Europe > Spain Expat Forum for Expats Living in Spain

Spain Expat Forum for Expats Living in Spain The Spain Expats forum is a dedicated community of people who have moved to Spain, or who are planning to. This is the place for Expats to meet and discuss anything about moving to, & living in, Spain.

Like Tree305Likes

MERGED....Declaration of Overseas assets to Spanish Tax Authority


Reply
 
Subscribe to this Thread Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 24th February 2013, 03:50 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 176
Rep Power: 0
GallineraGirl is on a distinguished road
50 likes received

Default MERGED....Declaration of Overseas assets to Spanish Tax Authority

Hi, We're just getting together the information about our assets abroad for the new tax law. Does anyone know if there is an official exchange rate published by the Spanish Tax Office, pounds to euros, for the last tax year? Thanks.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 24th February 2013, 04:26 PM
snikpoh's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Valencia region (Ontinyent)
Posts: 5,933
Rep Power: 611
snikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond repute
2248 likes received
1039 likes given

Users Flag! Originally from england. Users Flag! Expat in spain.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GallineraGirl View Post
Hi, We're just getting together the information about our assets abroad for the new tax law. Does anyone know if there is an official exchange rate published by the Spanish Tax Office, pounds to euros, for the last tax year? Thanks.
You have to use the rate as of 31/12/12 - pound to euro 'mid-rate' was 1.2332

__________________
www.casaelparque.com
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 24th February 2013, 09:47 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: North Alicante region
Posts: 765
Rep Power: 2877
CapnBilly has a reputation beyond reputeCapnBilly has a reputation beyond reputeCapnBilly has a reputation beyond reputeCapnBilly has a reputation beyond reputeCapnBilly has a reputation beyond reputeCapnBilly has a reputation beyond reputeCapnBilly has a reputation beyond reputeCapnBilly has a reputation beyond reputeCapnBilly has a reputation beyond reputeCapnBilly has a reputation beyond reputeCapnBilly has a reputation beyond repute
247 likes received
9 likes given

Users Flag! Originally from uk. Users Flag! Expat in spain.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by snikpoh View Post

You have to use the rate as of 31/12/12 - pound to euro 'mid-rate' was 1.2332
That's as good a rate as any, but you get different rates depending upon where you look. For all my official calculations I always use the ECB official daily rate, so nobody can argue with it. You can download historical rates from 1999 onwards from here

http://www.ecb.int/stats/exchange/eu.../index.en.html

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 25th February 2013, 07:54 AM
New Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Vinaros (now uk)
Posts: 22
Rep Power: 0
ezza is on a distinguished road
7 likes received
2 likes given

Users Flag! Originally from england. Users Flag! Expat in spain.
Default

Also how is the value of property overseas calculated?

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 25th February 2013, 08:06 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: North Alicante region
Posts: 765
Rep Power: 2877
CapnBilly has a reputation beyond reputeCapnBilly has a reputation beyond reputeCapnBilly has a reputation beyond reputeCapnBilly has a reputation beyond reputeCapnBilly has a reputation beyond reputeCapnBilly has a reputation beyond reputeCapnBilly has a reputation beyond reputeCapnBilly has a reputation beyond reputeCapnBilly has a reputation beyond reputeCapnBilly has a reputation beyond reputeCapnBilly has a reputation beyond repute
247 likes received
9 likes given

Users Flag! Originally from uk. Users Flag! Expat in spain.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezza View Post
Also how is the value of property overseas calculated?
My understanding is that the value is based on the acquisition value converted at the exchange rate on the 31st December

If a person / company owns / beneficial owner of a property abroad whose purchase price consists in a currency other than the euro and is required to file information return, what is the exchange rate that should be used to determine the value acquisition?
In the case of buildings, the purchase value, as in the other property and rights subject to declaration, must conform to the prevailing exchange rate on the date December 31 of the year to which the information declared.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 26th February 2013, 06:55 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 176
Rep Power: 0
GallineraGirl is on a distinguished road
50 likes received

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by snikpoh View Post

You have to use the rate as of 31/12/12 - pound to euro 'mid-rate' was 1.2332
Thank you for some useful replies in this thread. Another question: Do you have to use the exchange rate at the end of the year when you do your normal tax return or do you use an average rate for the year, or even use the rate you got yourself when bringing money into the country e.g. when converting a pension in pounds to euros monthly?

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 26th February 2013, 08:43 AM
snikpoh's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Valencia region (Ontinyent)
Posts: 5,933
Rep Power: 611
snikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond repute
2248 likes received
1039 likes given

Users Flag! Originally from england. Users Flag! Expat in spain.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GallineraGirl View Post
Thank you for some useful replies in this thread. Another question: Do you have to use the exchange rate at the end of the year when you do your normal tax return or do you use an average rate for the year, or even use the rate you got yourself when bringing money into the country e.g. when converting a pension in pounds to euros monthly?
As a resident, when I do my tax return, all they need are the average balance and final balance in my Spanish accounts. These are provided by the banks. Consequently, there is no need to worry what exchange rate I got when the money was transferred. The interest that I get on any accounts I hold in UK is so small that my accountant has, in the past, told me that she will ignore them.

The only time I can see that being an issue, is if you hold a sterling account in Spain - how does that get reported for tax purposes?


I guess the problem now is that if one declares all assets in UK, then ANY interest earned on those accounts has to be declared now. As the UK issue tax reports in April, how can one use these to prove how much interest was earned in a calendar year - all very messy!

__________________
www.casaelparque.com
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 26th February 2013, 11:38 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: North Alicante region
Posts: 765
Rep Power: 2877
CapnBilly has a reputation beyond reputeCapnBilly has a reputation beyond reputeCapnBilly has a reputation beyond reputeCapnBilly has a reputation beyond reputeCapnBilly has a reputation beyond reputeCapnBilly has a reputation beyond reputeCapnBilly has a reputation beyond reputeCapnBilly has a reputation beyond reputeCapnBilly has a reputation beyond reputeCapnBilly has a reputation beyond reputeCapnBilly has a reputation beyond repute
247 likes received
9 likes given

Users Flag! Originally from uk. Users Flag! Expat in spain.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by snikpoh View Post

As a resident, when I do my tax return, all they need are the average balance and final balance in my Spanish accounts. These are provided by the banks. Consequently, there is no need to worry what exchange rate I got when the money was transferred. The interest that I get on any accounts I hold in UK is so small that my accountant has, in the past, told me that she will ignore them.
Don't quite understand this, as the final balance in your account is irrelevant with regard to your income.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GallineraGirl View Post
Thank you for some useful replies in this thread. Another question: Do you have to use the exchange rate at the end of the year when you do your normal tax return or do you use an average rate for the year, or even use the rate you got yourself when bringing money into the country e.g. when converting a pension in pounds to euros monthly?
You can use an average rate, and I think Hacienda do publish one, but I have yet to find it on their website. You can always calculate your own, by adding up the rate for every day of the year and dividing by 365.

If you receive a sterling income that is converted and paid to you I.e a state pension, then I would use the rate that you received. If, like me you receive a sterling income, but manage your own exchange rate conversions, then I use the exchange rate on the day it is paid ( this is what I meant by official calculations earlier, so I use the ECB rate I linked to). I apply the same principal to interest received.

To a certain extent it doesn't matter what rate you use, and you just report an amount. However, if you get asked to provide justification, then you don't want to get into an argument with them, and this is why I use the ECB rate, as its an officially published rate. Whatever system you use, you need to keep a record that you can refer to. Having just been asked to provide some evidence to support an item on my last return, I know that you only get 10 working days to comply. In addition, any evidence you provide has to be officially translated into Castilian if its in another language.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snikpoh View Post
The only time I can see that being an issue, is if you hold a sterling account in Spain - how does that get reported for tax purposes?
Well, if its income then you need to convert it, using a method above. If its a year end balance under modelo 720, then you use the rate on the 31st December.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snikpoh View Post
I guess the problem now is that if one declares all assets in UK, then ANY interest earned on those accounts has to be declared now. As the UK issue tax reports in April, how can one use these to prove how much interest was earned in a calendar year - all very messy!
I know you know this, but interest earned in the UK has always had to be declared, it's just that they know you have an interest bearing asset if you report. With regard to the interest earned, it's not based on a calendar year, it's on the day of receipt, so the difference in tax years is irrelevant. So for example, if you were a non resident in 2011, and returned to Spain on the 1st January 2012, and on the 2nd received interest of 5,000 ( I wish) in respect of money you had on deposit during 2011, then that's the amount you declare. At the same time, the fact that at the end of 2012, more will have accrued is irrelevant and doesn't need reporting. The day of receipt is the key date. This is the same in all tax regimes.


Last edited by CapnBilly; 26th February 2013 at 11:41 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 26th February 2013, 12:35 PM
snikpoh's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Valencia region (Ontinyent)
Posts: 5,933
Rep Power: 611
snikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond reputesnikpoh has a reputation beyond repute
2248 likes received
1039 likes given

Users Flag! Originally from england. Users Flag! Expat in spain.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnBilly View Post
Don't quite understand this, as the final balance in your account is irrelevant with regard to your income.

But it is still required for the tax return (or so my tax accountant says).

You can use an average rate, and I think Hacienda do publish one, but I have yet to find it on their website. You can always calculate your own, by adding up the rate for every day of the year and dividing by 365.

If you receive a sterling income that is converted and paid to you I.e a state pension, then I would use the rate that you received. If, like me you receive a sterling income, but manage your own exchange rate conversions, then I use the exchange rate on the day it is paid ( this is what I meant by official calculations earlier, so I use the ECB rate I linked to). I apply the same principal to interest received.

I still don't understand - you pay tax on the euros in your Spanish bank. Therefore exchange rates don't come into it surely? What am I missing here?

To a certain extent it doesn't matter what rate you use, and you just report an amount. However, if you get asked to provide justification, then you don't want to get into an argument with them, and this is why I use the ECB rate, as its an officially published rate. Whatever system you use, you need to keep a record that you can refer to. Having just been asked to provide some evidence to support an item on my last return, I know that you only get 10 working days to comply. In addition, any evidence you provide has to be officially translated into Castilian if its in another language.

Well, if its income then you need to convert it, using a method above. If its a year end balance under modelo 720, then you use the rate on the 31st December.

But this is not relevant as the poster was talking about doing tax returns and NOT asset reporting

I know you know this, but interest earned in the UK has always had to be declared, it's just that they know you have an interest bearing asset if you report. With regard to the interest earned, it's not based on a calendar year, it's on the day of receipt, so the difference in tax years is irrelevant. So for example, if you were a non resident in 2011, and returned to Spain on the 1st January 2012, and on the 2nd received interest of £5,000 ( I wish) in respect of money you had on deposit during 2011, then that's the amount you declare. At the same time, the fact that at the end of 2012, more will have accrued is irrelevant and doesn't need reporting. The day of receipt is the key date. This is the same in all tax regimes.
My point here is where income (interest) is paid monthly or any way other than annually. Here I guess one has to work through bank statements and work it out from there - totally ignoring any tax certificate.
Still confused why rates are important unless we are talking about someone earning money outside of Spain.

On the point about bringing a pension in monthly and so what rate to declare. Surely the answer is not to bother. Simply declare the amount of euros entering your Spanish bank and total for the year. It's then irrelevant what this was in sterling!

__________________
www.casaelparque.com

Last edited by snikpoh; 26th February 2013 at 12:38 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 26th February 2013, 03:27 PM
Stravinsky's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oliva, Spain
Posts: 5,690
Rep Power: 5947
Stravinsky has a reputation beyond reputeStravinsky has a reputation beyond reputeStravinsky has a reputation beyond reputeStravinsky has a reputation beyond reputeStravinsky has a reputation beyond reputeStravinsky has a reputation beyond reputeStravinsky has a reputation beyond reputeStravinsky has a reputation beyond reputeStravinsky has a reputation beyond reputeStravinsky has a reputation beyond reputeStravinsky has a reputation beyond repute
766 likes received
288 likes given

Users Flag! Originally from uk. Users Flag! Expat in spain.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnBilly View Post
My understanding is that the value is based on the acquisition value converted at the exchange rate on the 31st December

If a person / company owns / beneficial owner of a property abroad whose purchase price consists in a currency other than the euro and is required to file information return, what is the exchange rate that should be used to determine the value acquisition?
In the case of buildings, the purchase value, as in the other property and rights subject to declaration, must conform to the prevailing exchange rate on the date December 31 of the year to which the information declared.
So if someone bought their house 30 or 40 years ago for 40k and its now worth 200k, they declare it at the acquisition value of 40k?

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Expat Forum For People Moving Overseas And Living Abroad forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Location
Where you live
Expat From Country
Please select the country you originate from. This will appear as a flag when you make posts on the site.
Expat To Country
Please select the country you have either moved to or want to relocate to. This will be presented on the site when you make posts.

Log-in


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Statutory Declaration Format Siva Australia Expat Forum for Expats Living in Australia 686 3rd September 2018 07:24 PM
Assets Declaration to Spanish Government Help Needed ocraz Spain Expat Forum for Expats Living in Spain 13 30th April 2013 07:29 AM
Petition- Assets and Spanish tax fergie Spain Expat Forum for Expats Living in Spain 1 17th April 2013 07:26 PM
Taxation on overseas assets C11jones Italy Expat Forum for Expats Living in Italy 0 30th March 2013 03:37 PM
Mistake in Assets Declaration shafaqat309 Australia Expat Forum for Expats Living in Australia 3 15th March 2010 07:46 AM

FORUM PARTNERS

ExpatForum.com is owned and operated by VerticalScope Inc.

Retiring Overseas Guides | Moving Overseas Guides | Cost of Living | Health Care Guides


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.