MERGED....Declaration of Overseas assets to Spanish Tax Authority - Page 2

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MERGED....Declaration of Overseas assets to Spanish Tax Authority - Page 2


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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 26th February 2013, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Stravinsky View Post
So if someone bought their house 30 or 40 years ago for £40k and its now worth £200k, they declare it at the acquisition value of £40k?
Well now, thats a very good question. The simple answer is yes, The more complicated is, does it need to be declared. I don't have a property so it doesn't affect me, so I haven't really thought about it. However, reading the law it says under 54b 2d it clearly says you have to report the acquisition value, as I posted. However, in 54b 6d it says

6. The information required under this article shall not be applicable in respect of the following properties or rights over immovable property situated abroad:
d) There shall be no obligation to report on any property or interest in real property when the securities referred to in paragraphs 2.d), 3 and 4 did not exceed jointly 50,000 euros. If this limit is exceeded assembly should learn all property and rights to property.


para 3 and 4 are about time share and usufructs etc, so just different types of property.

I must admit that doesn't make sense, so looking at 19/1991 where it explains how to value for wealth tax (which is the basis of quite a lot of the valuations in the new law) it says

By the highest of the following three: the rateable value, the proven by the Administration for the purpose of other taxes or price, consideration or value of the acquisition.

There will be no cadastral value for a house in the UK (there;s a rateable value, but I think thats calculated on a different basis), there's no value by the Administration, so ergo, it must be the acquisition value.

Think you'd better see you gestoria again

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Old 26th February 2013, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by snikpoh View Post
Originally Posted by CapnBilly
Don't quite understand this, as the final balance in your account is irrelevant with regard to your income.

But it is still required for the tax return (or so my tax accountant says).

I'm not aware of anywhere in a personal tax return that you have to provide that information, unless its something to do with your property dealings. I personally have never provided it.

You can use an average rate, and I think Hacienda do publish one, but I have yet to find it on their website. You can always calculate your own, by adding up the rate for every day of the year and dividing by 365.

If you receive a sterling income that is converted and paid to you I.e a state pension, then I would use the rate that you received. If, like me you receive a sterling income, but manage your own exchange rate conversions, then I use the exchange rate on the day it is paid ( this is what I meant by official calculations earlier, so I use the ECB rate I linked to). I apply the same principal to interest received.

still don't understand - you pay tax on the euros in your Spanish bank. Therefore exchange rates don't come into it surely? What am I missing here?

I think the original poster was asking about the rate because they have sterling income, even though it may be paid in euros i.e a state pension from the UK. I personally recive a sterling income, but I only convert about two thirds of it for day to day living, so the rest remains in sterling. for tax purposes I convert it all notionally at the ECB rate.

To a certain extent it doesn't matter what rate you use, and you just report an amount. However, if you get asked to provide justification, then you don't want to get into an argument with them, and this is why I use the ECB rate, as its an officially published rate. Whatever system you use, you need to keep a record that you can refer to. Having just been asked to provide some evidence to support an item on my last return, I know that you only get 10 working days to comply. In addition, any evidence you provide has to be officially translated into Castilian if its in another language.

Well, if its income then you need to convert it, using a method above. If its a year end balance under modelo 720, then you use the rate on the 31st December.

But this is not relevant as the poster was talking about doing tax returns and NOT asset reporting

This was in answer to your question,

[I]The only time I can see that being an issue, is if you hold a sterling account in Spain - how does that get reported for tax purposes?


I know you know this, but interest earned in the UK has always had to be declared, it's just that they know you have an interest bearing asset if you report. With regard to the interest earned, it's not based on a calendar year, it's on the day of receipt, so the difference in tax years is irrelevant. So for example, if you were a non resident in 2011, and returned to Spain on the 1st January 2012, and on the 2nd received interest of 5,000 ( I wish) in respect of money you had on deposit during 2011, then that's the amount you declare. At the same time, the fact that at the end of 2012, more will have accrued is irrelevant and doesn't need reporting. The day of receipt is the key date. This is the same in all tax regimes.

My point here is where income (interest) is paid monthly or any way other than annually. Here I guess one has to work through bank statements and work it out from there - totally ignoring any tax certificate

Spot on. The tax certificate just confuse the issue

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Originally Posted by snikpoh View Post
Still confused why rates are important unless we are talking about someone earning money outside of Spain.
That what I though the OP was asking about, unless I am mistaken

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Originally Posted by snikpoh View Post
On the point about bringing a pension in monthly and so what rate to declare. Surely the answer is not to bother. Simply declare the amount of euros entering your Spanish bank and total for the year. It's then irrelevant what this was in sterling!
As I thought I explained I manage my own exchange, as do a lot people, so for example, before Christmas I bought enough euros to last me 6 months, using my own capital. Those euros are in my account on deposit, they are not income. Since then I have received 3 pensio payments, all of which are still in sterling

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Old 27th February 2013, 07:31 AM
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Well now, thats a very good question. The simple answer is yes, The more complicated is, does it need to be declared.

Think you'd better see your gestoria again
Checked with my gestoria, and she confirms that my analysis was correct, the reporting requirement is based on the acquisition value, so that's about £40,806.

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Old 27th February 2013, 08:31 AM
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Checked with my gestoria, and she confirms that my analysis was correct, the reporting requirement is based on the acquisition value, so that's about 40,806.
Why does that not surprise me .... how ridiculous is that then!

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Old 27th February 2013, 08:52 AM
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Why does that not surprise me .... how ridiculous is that then!
It just doesn't make sense to me. I could understand if you had to report the acquisition value, but the reporting requirement was based on the current value.
But what do I know, I'm just a simple fellow, who's just trying to live in peace, and comply with the laws of the land where I live. They just seem determined to make it difficult.

I posted earlier about having to provide evidence to support last years tax return, and I have to have my P60 translated into Spanish. !!!!. It's just numbers, with the a few words, that are pretty clear, not a essay.

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Old 27th February 2013, 02:17 PM
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It just doesn't make sense to me. I could understand if you had to report the acquisition value, but the reporting requirement was based on the current value.
But what do I know, I'm just a simple fellow, who's just trying to live in peace, and comply with the laws of the land where I live. They just seem determined to make it difficult.

I posted earlier about having to provide evidence to support last years tax return, and I have to have my P60 translated into Spanish. !!!!. It's just numbers, with the a few words, that are pretty clear, not a essay.
I bet you they tell you that you have to get it notarised, costing a fortune of your heavily taxed income!

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Old 1st March 2013, 02:54 PM
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Still rather confused about if I need to declare I have a local government pension which I have not yet taken ( as still to young) do I have to declare this as I can take a lump sum on retirement as well as a monthly pension ?

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Old 1st March 2013, 04:27 PM
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Still rather confused about if I need to declare I have a local government pension which I have not yet taken ( as still to young) do I have to declare this as I can take a lump sum on retirement as well as a monthly pension ?
Government pensions dont need to be declared in Spain under the dual taxation treaty. If I were staying a tax resident, I would not be declaring ours

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Old 1st March 2013, 04:31 PM
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Still rather confused about if I need to declare I have a local government pension which I have not yet taken ( as still to young) do I have to declare this as I can take a lump sum on retirement as well as a monthly pension ?
Actually just checking, thats paid by Capita Hartshead?

As we have a state and Govt pension, the govt pension is taxed in the UK taking account of the UK allowances, and the State pension comes here to be taxed using the Spanish allowances.

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Old 1st March 2013, 04:36 PM
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Thanks Stravinsky
Yes I agree about not declaring for yearly tax but should I be declaring the pension "pot" under this 50,000 + declaration

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