How much are your monthly/yearly costs for the apartment you own ?

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How much are your monthly/yearly costs for the apartment you own ?


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Old 3rd May 2017, 10:05 PM
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Default How much are your monthly/yearly costs for the apartment you own ?

Hello,

I am a young working man. I am exploring the possibility to buy my own 'place in the sun'.
Spain is one of the few countries I did narrow my choice down to.
I will use it as a holiday home - I will be roughly 1 to 1.5 months per year there. When I
retire (in about 30 years), I will most probably move there permanently.
My goal is to buy a 3-room (or, as you call it - 2 bedroom) apartment, around 70-85 m2.
What is most important for me - to have the lowest possible cost when I am not there.
Hence, please kindly let me know what are the recurring monthly/yearly costs that you
have to keep paying. I will number the items, in order to aid you in writing your answers:

1) Water and electricity - those should be clear. Costs are according the the readings of
the corresponding meters. Do you have anything else to add ?

2) Condominio (I hope I am calling this right) - what I mean by this, are the regular
maintenance and repair cost for the apartment building and for utilities of the common
space, like the staircase, corridors like electricity for them and keeping the clean, etc.

3) I know that in Spain, there is a property ownership tax. I found on Google, that it's
about 0.7%-0.8%. Fine, but that percentage of what ??? I think that I have read, that it's
from the cadastral appraisal of the apartment. Is that true ?
And if yes, then how much is the cadastral appraisal ??? Let's say an apartment, that
sells now for 100 000 EUR - will it be like 95 000 EUR or maybe 40 000 EUR ? I am
trying to make at least a rough estimation how much will that property tax cost me!
If it's 0.7% from 100 000, that makes 700 EUR/year, which is A LOT for me. 5% of 40 000
is a completely different figure, something that I could possibly live with.

4) I have read on the internet also, that there is an additional tax, called community
tax. How much is it for a 70-85 m2 apartment ? I am interested in the areas of Madrid
and Barcelona.

5) The apartment should also be insured against natural disasters and other damage
like fire, etc. - does any of you have such an insurance ? How much is it per year ?

6) Are there any additional recurring costs, that I didn't think about ?

7) If one day I would have to sell the apartment - I have read, that in Spain there
is a Capital Gain Tax (CGT). How is it calculated ? % of the selling price minus the
price at which I bought it ? Because I encountered a thread on a forum, where some
people from the UK complained, that they were taxed as a % of the selling price minus
the cadastral appraisal, so they had to pay something like 20 000 EUR, which would be
a catastrophe.

Many many thanks for your answers and advice!

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Old 12th May 2017, 06:05 PM
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Only fish could be more silent... :-(
So, I guess, you guys, are paying soooooo much, that you don't even wanna talk about this :-/

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Old 12th May 2017, 06:27 PM
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Hi - sorry you haven't had any replies. I think it might be because a very similar question was asked the day before you posted!

Have a look at this thread - but in all honesty it's impossible to answer your questions even vaguely. All these things can vary hugely building to building even in the same street..... let alone the same city.

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spa...-building.html

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Old 12th May 2017, 06:48 PM
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There were a LOT of questions in your original post, which might have put people off replying because of the effort required to answer them (and maybe you could find some if not all the information you're looking for by using the Search function o1) n the forum to find information on the individual issues). However, I'll have a go at answering some of them.

1) Water and electricity - as well as the unit costs for consumptioin, there are standing charges to be paid (and IVA of 21%, equivalent to VAT in the UK, is added to the total bill plus an additional tax of 5% in the case of electricity). The standing charges for electricity depend on how much "potencia" your property is contracted for - ie how many kw of power you can draw at any one time without tripping the supply if you are using too many applicances once. I am contracted for 3.45 kwh and the standing charge for that is €24.20 for two months (bills are issued every two months here) Someone with an all-electric property (for cooking, heating water and maybe air conditioning) would need a higher potencia so their standing charges would be higher.

2) Condominio - called community fees or gastos de comunidad in Spain. Monthly costs vary a great deal depending on what kind of facilites the building or complex has (lifts, gardens, swimming pools, playgrounds etc) and also how many properties the costs are shared amongst. I am looking for an apartment to buy myself at the moment and for those I have seen so far (places with lifts but not pools or extensive gardens) the costs have been in the region of €45-55 per month, which in some cases has included cable TV and internet.

3) Property ownership tax - called non resident tax here. See an explanation here

https://www.spanishpropertyinsight.c...non-residents/

4) Community tax - this is called IBI here, paid to the local authority for provision of municipal services. It's based on the offiicial catastral value of the individual property and can vary quite widely between properties of equal size as things like what facilities are available in the area the property is situated in can affect it. The only reliable indicator you could get is to ask the estate agent for that information for any properties you are interested in.

5) Insurance - individual property owners don't insure against natural disasters here. That cover is provided by something called the consorcio - financed by a levy on all house insurance companies. Only people who have their own house insurance policies are eligible to receive assistance from the consorcio in the event of something like an earthquake or floods, though. The commuity fees you pay for an apartment will include building insurance although you may have to insure against some risks personally, you'd need to check what your community policie does and does not cover, plus of course you'd need to insure contents.

6) Capital Gains Tax - as well as taking the purchase price into account you can also offset expenses like the transmission tax and legal fees you paid on the purchase, and selling expenses like the estate agent's commission (which is normally high here, 5% being quite normal and the local tax called plus valia (charged on the increase in land value during the period of your ownership) and also the cost of alterations or extensions (other than purely cosmetic ones) so long as you had an official building permit and paid the fee for that at the time. If you make a big enough gain after addiing on all those expenses to be liable for CGT you would be doing extremely well in the current Spanish property market, or you'd have to own the property for a very long time!
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Last edited by Lynn R; 12th May 2017 at 06:51 PM.
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Old 13th May 2017, 01:13 PM
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If you only plan on using it for a max of 6 weeks per year for the next 30 years, I wouldn't bother.

You'll need a total refurb before living in it, possibly twice, excluding all those other running costs.

30 years is a long time and you might not want to occupy it.

I'm left wondering what the point is TBH.

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Old 13th May 2017, 09:14 PM
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Many thanks to everyone who posted here, especially to Lynn R for the very long post.
It's a lot of information, and honestly, it's quite overwhelming.

1) Sounds too bad. How do I know how much will I need ? Usually not a lot, but once or
twice I might really need a lot - if running some reconstruction for example... Most of the
time - none, especially when I'm not there... Never heard about such a rule anywhere
else...

3) Thanks. I've read the link. I didn't understand almost nothing...
Cadastral value of property = 200,000 Euros
Base = 2,200 Euros
Tax = 19% x 2,200 Euros = 418 Euros

Where does this base come from ??? OMG 418 EUR/year !!! I could fly from my country
to Spain 4 times for this money !!! This is really scary !!! And this is just 1 tax !! What
about the others ???

4) It would be nice, if you could give a number - for example how much are you paying.

6) Isn't this just when I decide to sell the property ? Or basically, you tried do advise, that
at the point of selling (if I decide to sell) I can deduct some expences from the price difference,
so probably there wouldn't be any CGT that I'd need to pay ?

I know, most of you, guys, are from the UK. No idea how things work over there, but
compared to my country, and to other countries that I'm looking at, Spain looks like a
real mess! Or more precisely, it looks like the government has many buttons, which are
mostly off, or reduced, but they can use them in order to spill more money in the budget.
And once the economy goes worse again, they can reintroduce abolished taxes or prolong
temporary taxes, in order to milk more money from the people!! What a pity, it was my
favorite country as up to looks, weather, language...
There are just too many taxes and too many rules.
I'd like to make this purchase as an investment and to have the possibility to spend high
quality free time, but it looks, that in Spain, this will rather be a hassle.
Wealth tax ??? I've read the link you provided. It's like written in chinese, I didn't even
get half of it. It includes fur coats ?!? Who the hell is going to check how many fur coats
are there in my apartment ???
Sorry for being negative and sarcastic, but I think I'm gonna pass. Which is a real pity!!!
Just the tax system seems to be a real jungle. Who's gonna help me out - nobody...
Or at least not for free. Sorry... Very very sorry.
Please, if you have some good words to say - feel free ;-) Thanks a lot, once again!

P. S.: This is really the cherry on the top - I've read it on a forum - if somebody from
the family (or the property owner, not sure) passes away, they would freeze ALL your
property and ALL your bank accounts, until you pay the (inheritance ?) tax !! This is really
a nice deed from the government in such a hard and painful moment for people !!!!!!


Last edited by 50cent; 13th May 2017 at 09:26 PM.
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Old 14th May 2017, 06:28 AM
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You will be sorely missed, bye.

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Old 14th May 2017, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 50cent View Post
P. S.: This is really the cherry on the top - I've read it on a forum - if somebody from
the family (or the property owner, not sure) passes away, they would freeze ALL your
property and ALL your bank accounts, until you pay the (inheritance ?) tax !! This is really
a nice deed from the government in such a hard and painful moment for people !!!!!!

Here is a list of inheritance tax by country:
https://taxfoundation.org/estate-and...-around-world/

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Old 14th May 2017, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 50cent View Post
P. S.: This is really the cherry on the top - I've read it on a forum - if somebody from
the family (or the property owner, not sure) passes away, they would freeze ALL your
property and ALL your bank accounts, until you pay the (inheritance ?) tax !! This is really
a nice deed from the government in such a hard and painful moment for people !!!!!!
This is what comes of searching for advice on forums. I suppose you also read that they will confiscate your car if you don't pay speeding fines.

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Old 14th May 2017, 07:42 PM
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The reason he didn't get any responses to his original post is that seasoned contributors immediately spotted somebody who shouldn't leave his home without adult supervision.

Lynn was very nice to respond. I almost did.

This is a person whose mind was already made up.
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