Dealing with being threatened

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Old 9th January 2014, 01:45 PM
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Hi everybody. I am new here and would like to ask for some advice. Recently I was involved in an altercation over money owed by my wife's family. We are trying to pay this back in full but the other party have taken over some land belonging to the family and are being very awkward. My wife asked me to accompany her when we went to see the people involved. I was polite and respectful but the woman involved has a reputation of being aggressive and very rude. She got her husband involved an ex senior police man who is retired but an extreme hot head. He was extremely aggressive towards me even after I tried to placate him. As my wife and I were leaving he threatened to shoot me if I ever returned.
My questions are
1/ How serious should I take this threat even though my wife's family have told me he has done this sort of thing before to other people.
2/ What should my next move be? Going to the police? Embassy?
3/ I don't want to make the situation here an worse as normally I have a quiet good life here in Cavite but feel I should be on my guard now - and this family only live down the street.
Thanks for any suggestions

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Old 9th January 2014, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Hampshireman View Post
Hi everybody. I am new here and would like to ask for some advice. Recently I was involved in an altercation over money owed by my wife's family. We are trying to pay this back in full but the other party have taken over some land belonging to the family and are being very awkward. My wife asked me to accompany her when we went to see the people involved. I was polite and respectful but the woman involved has a reputation of being aggressive and very rude. She got her husband involved an ex senior police man who is retired but an extreme hot head. He was extremely aggressive towards me even after I tried to placate him. As my wife and I were leaving he threatened to shoot me if I ever returned.
My questions are
1/ How serious should I take this threat even though my wife's family have told me he has done this sort of thing before to other people.
2/ What should my next move be? Going to the police? Embassy?
3/ I don't want to make the situation here an worse as normally I have a quiet good life here in Cavite but feel I should be on my guard now - and this family only live down the street.
Thanks for any suggestions
Welcome,

First, I would definitely be on guard. If you have been living here for much time you know that some locals can be unpredictable and even dangerous when faced with a bad situation they want to go away. Judgment (what little there is or can be) simply evaporates like water on a hot sidewalk.

The federal police will not get involved unless you file a legal case and they serve a warrant. To do anything you would need to file (free) a complaint with your local Barangay Police. He will be "invited" to a meeting to try to settle the issue with your wife. It is however, unlikely that he will appear at the meeting and would not cooperate even if he did.
Any route or action taken you should not be involved or attend the meetings or investigations.

If you take regular legal action on this I would be sure you and your family are not living in the local area at the time. Simply put, it would not be safe to do so.

Unfortunately law or what is right means very little here. Considering this guys former employment position, he is or likely would be dangerous. If the situation can not be resolved easily it would be best to forget the whole thing. Cut your losses and be thankful for the experience as well as holding onto your skin.



Best of luck

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Old 9th January 2014, 11:01 PM
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money owed by my wife's family
That is the key statement here....it's their problem and let them handle it. That's their world and foreigners are alot better off staying out of it.

Is there any documentation about said debt? Not saying that implying there's a scam going on but it might be a way to solve this amicably as you'll see the true terms of the debt and can act accordingly.

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Old 10th January 2014, 04:11 AM
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I wouldn't get involved in any of the family disputes the other brother and sisters can hold their own and the former Police man was definitely feeling threatened by you...Why? Because you have money, land in Cavite is worth keeping so it looks like they wanted the land and not the money the wife was showing you off and the end result was you took the brunt of their anger.

If you have enough land for you and your wife then I would make my focus that and let the family deal with what they got themselves stuck in.

I was threatened one time by my brother in-law with sword and so I took him to the Barangay and because a weapon was involved it was refered to the Police station by the Barangay (things are slow here, they had to type up a letter because he wouldnt' give up his sword) Anyway we showed up at the Police station the brother in-law gave up his sword and I found out later his buddies at the police station gave it back to him but the bottom line is that all this was recorded.


If your treated badly it needs to be recorded at the Barangay but he's a former police man, oh man.... these guys have some sort extraordinary power and influence, I would keep a low profile and worry only about your wife and your property this time but if things escalate something needs to happen, neighbors need to know whats going on, keep a watch on you as possible witnesses starting at the Barangay maybe even a body guard approved by the police, we had issue's once and they recommended a body-guard for us.

I don't think giving them any more money is going to solve your problem I agree with "cvgtpc1" this could end up being a scam by all...." Been there done that not once but several times", my in-laws play like they are in a fight against each other but it turns out they are all a rock solid family and make up several ways to scam me out of my cash/food and the scams get better, more complicated with not only family members but neighbors.

I would focus on your wife and nothing else, hopefully you can get your wife on board.

You mentioned how aggressive the women was to you, that's normal bad behavior here and expect that sort of reaction every single time there's a confrontation about money or property.
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Old 10th January 2014, 05:07 AM
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Thanks guy for your suggestions. This is not a scam I can assure you as the parties involved fell out years before I arrived on the scene.(after they had borrowed the 200k php) I guess it's a lot about seeing me as a threat to their status especially as I have/am redeveloping my wifes business that had declined due to family matters - fathers death / brother seriously ill. My wife's family is small and very religious having many links to the church. (church members always at the house) Perhaps I could talk to the priest? I am also a new member of the Knights of Columbus perhaps they can help? Perhaps a Christian approach is not the way forward?
In future I shall stay out of any discussions involving this matter as my presence only seems to make things worse.
I am finding it very hard to deal with the stress and worry of dealing with these bullies.
Any more suggestions would be great.
We are even considering moving the family (wife, son in law, and the mother in law- thats it for family- I mean it's a small family!)
thanks again guys - I am a little at my wits end facing such aggression.
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Old 10th January 2014, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Hampshireman View Post
Thanks guy for your suggestions. This is not a scam I can assure you as the parties involved fell out years before I arrived on the scene.(after they had borrowed the 200k php) I guess it's a lot about seeing me as a threat to their status especially as I have/am redeveloping my wifes business that had declined due to family matters - fathers death / brother seriously ill. My wife's family is small and very religious having many links to the church. (church members always at the house) Perhaps I could talk to the priest? I am also a new member of the Knights of Columbus perhaps they can help? Perhaps a Christian approach is not the way forward?
In future I shall stay out of any discussions involving this matter as my presence only seems to make things worse.
I am finding it very hard to deal with the stress and worry of dealing with these bullies.
Any more suggestions would be great.
We are even considering moving the family (wife, son in law, and the mother in law- thats it for family- I mean it's a small family!)
thanks again guys - I am a little at my wits end facing such aggression.
You keep on venting there's nothing wrong with it and I like that! I've been there done that, not everyone that lives here lives smoothly, it's nice to hear someone else's issue's I have many family issue's here if you read prior posts, so you keep on going it brings some fresh material to talk about and you could get another perspective but really we dont' know all that's going on, nothing wrong with conversation it's not easy talking with family members that don't speak good English or dealing with Tagalog TV and drama's, if you have cable your blessed.

Church people over all the time is another issue or I don't deal with anymore they're there for the drinks, food and conversation if you got the money go for it but I don't do this anymore either.

Do you need to live in the city? There's many guys from the UK and Australia that live in the Pagsanjan Laguana area, sure is more affordable and not as crowded as Manila.
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Old 10th January 2014, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Hampshireman View Post
Thanks guy for your suggestions. This is not a scam I can assure you as the parties involved fell out years before I arrived on the scene.(after they had borrowed the 200k php) I guess it's a lot about seeing me as a threat to their status especially as I have/am redeveloping my wifes business that had declined due to family matters - fathers death / brother seriously ill. My wife's family is small and very religious having many links to the church. (church members always at the house) Perhaps I could talk to the priest? I am also a new member of the Knights of Columbus perhaps they can help? Perhaps a Christian approach is not the way forward?
In future I shall stay out of any discussions involving this matter as my presence only seems to make things worse.
I am finding it very hard to deal with the stress and worry of dealing with these bullies.
Any more suggestions would be great.
We are even considering moving the family (wife, son in law, and the mother in law- thats it for family- I mean it's a small family!)
thanks again guys - I am a little at my wits end facing such aggression.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcalleyboy View Post
You keep on venting there's nothing wrong with it and I like that! I've been there done that, not everyone that lives here lives smoothly, it's nice to hear someone else's issue's I have many family issue's here if you read prior posts, so you keep on going it brings some fresh material to talk about and you could get another perspective but really we dont' know all that's going on, nothing wrong with conversation it's not easy talking with family members that don't speak good English or dealing with Tagalog TV and drama's, if you have cable your blessed.

Church people over all the time is another issue or I don't deal with anymore they're there for the drinks, food and conversation if you got the money go for it but I don't do this anymore either.

Do you need to live in the city? There's many guys from the UK and Australia that live in the Pagsanjan Laguana area, sure is more affordable and not as crowded as Manila.
I agree here and will add one thing too. No matter what, be sure to follow your gut feeling with issues of personal safety. Your first reaction or feeling will most always be the right one.
Life in our home countries was stressful enough and I'm sure you didn't move here for more of it--plus safety issues on top of it.

This is a great place to retire and enjoy life. But it is or can also be a very dangerous and unforgiving one as well. Different culture, different mind set and almost zero judgment by locals even when sober.
Best to leave it, take your wife and life happily and safely elsewhere here in the islands...


Gene
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Old 10th January 2014, 05:10 PM
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One thing is for sure, make sure that you NEVER get involved in a physical fight with ANY Filipino. In the USA as well as the UK, two individuals that get into a fist fight can go to a bar after the fight and have drinks. Filipinos take their fighting very seriously. They are very confrontational, very dramatic and if two Filipinos get into a physical fight, one of them is going to die.
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Old 11th January 2014, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hampshireman View Post
Hi everybody. I am new here and would like to ask for some advice. Recently I was involved in an altercation over money owed by my wife's family. We are trying to pay this back in full but the other party have taken over some land belonging to the family and are being very awkward. My wife asked me to accompany her when we went to see the people involved. I was polite and respectful but the woman involved has a reputation of being aggressive and very rude. She got her husband involved an ex senior police man who is retired but an extreme hot head. He was extremely aggressive towards me even after I tried to placate him. As my wife and I were leaving he threatened to shoot me if I ever returned.
My questions are
1/ How serious should I take this threat even though my wife's family have told me he has done this sort of thing before to other people.
2/ What should my next move be? Going to the police? Embassy?
3/ I don't want to make the situation here an worse as normally I have a quiet good life here in Cavite but feel I should be on my guard now - and this family only live down the street.
Thanks for any suggestions

I don't think it was very wise of your wife to bring you there, and it appears that she may have brought along in a misguided attempt to send a message to the other party. I think that you and your wife should have left as soon as the other woman started acting rudely towards the two of you, and I'd keep that in mind in the future.

Notice that the other gentleman stated he would shoot you, if you returned. He waited until the two of you were in the process of leaving his property, before he issued the threat, "If you return, I will shoot you!" He didn't say that he was going to shoot you immediately on the spot, or he didn't say that he was going to follow you home in shoot you, he said if you return I will shoot you.

I don't think this guy really wants to shoot you, but he had to make a show of bravado, based upon the fact that your wife took you there during a conflict, and he had to save face. I could be wrong, but I don't think he's going to come and hunt you down, and I would let sleeping dogs lie. Does this person know where you live? How well do you get along with your neighbors? Will your neighbors be able to keep an eye out for you?

If push comes to shove and you need to defend yourself, give him a straight jab or a cross right on the tip of his chin. Most people will go lights out after a good hit on the chin, and he may not remember what happened just before hand, once he wakes up. However, I agree that you should try to avoid conflict at all costs, but if you can't, this is the thing to do. A few years ago I almost got into it with a taxi drive who hit my car, and I was about ready to punch him. The guy was trying to intimidate me because I was a foreigner, but we both knew that I'd kill him if a fight started, and I think that he was counting on the fact that other Filipinos might get out of their cars and help him. A Filipino truck driver got out of his truck and asked us what was going on. I told him that the cab drive hit my car, and tried to flee the scene. The truck driver got mad at the cabbie, and cussed him pretty good in dialtect. Turns out the truck driver's daughter was married to a foreigner. The truck driver told me to call the cab company to complain about the driver, but he said it was not worth reporting to the police because they might take hours to arrive. I never called the cab company because I didn't want the guy to get fired, and now he has two red stripes on the side of his car to explain to his boss anyway. You might consider getting some mace.


People here in the PI can be very emotional regarding the issue of money and debts, and often times they use their own emotions to build up a good head of steam. I once had someone call me up claiming that one of my in-laws owed them money, and that I need to pay the debt for them. I laughed and hung up the phone, they never called back.

My best advice is to not insert yourself into conflicts your in-laws have with others, and if you must pay another private party a debt, consider using Western Union so that you have proof, and you don't have to communicate directly. WU is everywhere here, so they can't complain about that.

I don't know what to say about the land, but I don't think what they've done is legal even by standards here in the PI, as I don't think the allows for them to simply seize property (land) in compensation for a debt that is owed, and even here in the PI, property can only legally be seized upon a court order. Again, this is something your in-laws will have to discuss with local authorities/attorney. Be advised that property landownership is often cloudy here, and it is not on common for two different families to have competing claims on the same plot of land, and often times such disputes takes months, if not years to sort out in court.
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Old 11th January 2014, 07:11 AM
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I don't think it was very wise of your wife to bring you there, and it appears that she may have brought along in a misguided attempt to send a message to the other party. I think that you and your wife should have left as soon as the other woman started acting rudely towards the two of you, and I'd keep that in mind in the future.

Notice that the other gentleman stated he would shoot you, if you returned. He waited until the two of you were in the process of leaving his property, before he issued the threat, "If you return, I will shoot you!" He didn't say that he was going to shoot you immediately on the spot, or he didn't say that he was going to follow you home in shoot you, he said if you return I will shoot you.

I don't think this guy really wants to shoot you, but he had to make a show of bravado, based upon the fact that your wife took you there during a conflict, and he had to save face. I could be wrong, but I don't think he's going to come and hunt you down, and I would let sleeping dogs lie. Does this person know where you live? How well do you get along with your neighbors? Will your neighbors be able to keep an eye out for you?

If push comes to shove and you need to defend yourself, give him a straight jab or a cross right on the tip of his chin. Most people will go lights out after a good hit on the chin, and he may not remember what happened just before hand, once he wakes up. However, I agree that you should try to avoid conflict at all costs, but if you can't, this is the thing to do. A few years ago I almost got into it with a taxi drive who hit my car, and I was about ready to punch him. The guy was trying to intimidate me because I was a foreigner, but we both knew that I'd kill him if a fight started, and I think that he was counting on the fact that other Filipinos might get out of their cars and help him. A Filipino truck driver got out of his truck and asked us what was going on. I told him that the cab drive hit my car, and tried to flee the scene. The truck driver got mad at the cabbie, and cussed him pretty good in dialtect. Turns out the truck driver's daughter was married to a foreigner. The truck driver told me to call the cab company to complain about the driver, but he said it was not worth reporting to the police because they might take hours to arrive. I never called the cab company because I didn't want the guy to get fired, and now he has two red stripes on the side of his car to explain to his boss anyway. You might consider getting some mace.


People here in the PI can be very emotional regarding the issue of money and debts, and often times they use their own emotions to build up a good head of steam. I once had someone call me up claiming that one of my in-laws owed them money, and that I need to pay the debt for them. I laughed and hung up the phone, they never called back.

My best advice is to not insert yourself into conflicts your in-laws have with others, and if you must pay another private party a debt, consider using Western Union so that you have proof, and you don't have to communicate directly. WU is everywhere here, so they can't complain about that.

I don't know what to say about the land, but I don't think what they've done is legal even by standards here in the PI, as I don't think the allows for them to simply seize property (land) in compensation for a debt that is owed, and even here in the PI, property can only legally be seized upon a court order. Again, this is something your in-laws will have to discuss with local authorities/attorney. Be advised that property landownership is often cloudy here, and it is not on common for two different families to have competing claims on the same plot of land, and often times such disputes takes months, if not years to sort out in court.
I agree very much with this statement. I recently had an incident with a next door neighbor who had problems with my friend, also an EXPAT, parking his jeep in front of our house. My friend had asked my permission to park in front of my house, which is rented, and was also given permission by the owner of the house who is Filipino AND whose husband is, like the two of us, an American EXPAT. The neighbor was doing something and making plans and needed some extra space. Instead of contacting me and asking for assistance regarding my friend's jeep, he got 3 Filipinos to move my friend's jeep, I had just caught them in the act of moving when I questioned what they were doing. My neighbor said he needed more space because he was planning a party. Had had he been more diplomatic in his actions, things would not have happened like they did. My friend, later, came to my house for a visit, I informed him what took place. Later the neighbor saw my friend sitting with me on our patio, they looked at each other, my friend said, and I quote: "If you ever touch my jeep again, I will break both of your arms. You moved my jeep without my permission, had you contacted me, in the first place, I would have come and moved it and there would have been no problem, but you moved it, even without talking to Jim. Never touch my jeep again, I have Jim's permission as well as the home owner's permission to park here."

This PO'd the neighbor and things got confrontational with him cocking his pistol at my friend. Things were finally resolved by the Home Owner's President and the Subdivision Law Enforcement. They said my friend was too 'over reactive.' My friend had to move his jeep and not park it here. I made a statement in front of everyone that as of now, "NOBODY except the owner of this house can park his vehicle in front of this house if my friend can't park it, and I mean NOBODY." I further made a statement that I am a Senior Citizen and am entitled to the respect that I have earned for a man my age. I did not ever tolerate disrespect in the USA and I absolutely will not tolerate it here in the Philippines.
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