Observations about some of the downside of New Zealand

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Observations about some of the downside of New Zealand


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Old 2nd January 2010, 02:04 AM
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Default Observations about some of the downside of New Zealand

The best advice one can give skilled NZ immigrants today is to wise up about NZ. Imagine working in a third world country or the former "DDR" and you get the picture. And befitting to a country only pretending to be a democratic capitalist economy, NZ is known amongst those who dare to read the fine print, to influence media and falsify statistics to appear like a "Britain in the Tropics". This can only be explained with the quite feeble and bribe/nepotism-riddled economy and the bad living conditions (bad housing, low wages, high crime) that apparently leave the government no choice to lie. If you haven't heard about these facts in the daily press it is due to the intelligent NZ news management. NZ earns as much (about 8 billion $) from Immigrants as from tourism. If you look closely, you can detect a policy to incorporate the immigrant savings within the first 2 years into the NZ economy without paying out any government benefits (not even if you are working and paying taxes). The majority of immigrants who has not "worked themselves poor" after these first two years, leaves, usually empty-handed and without savings. A government statistic states that 98% of immigrants are still there after 2 years. It was publicized on international travel and placed in "quality of life" articles. The truth is that only immigrants already in the country for more than 2 years have participated in it, so the majority of immigrants who had already left the country never showed up in the figures. Other "big claims" are just as unreal when you live here, like "green country", or "educational system that scored high in PISA". This is a place of make-believe. A prop-country.

In relation to work permits there are no rules that you couldn't find overthrown tomorrow. The economy is weak and unstable due to soft laws, bribing, nepotism and a brutal government employee attitude of "squeezing out money for oneself no matter what" commonly only found in this quantity in third world countries with an economically traumatized middle class like Guatemala. Any government official who can afford it has a house in other countries. That alone says a lot. And it is simply not true that the average person works less. If they want to get ahead and not drift through life with minimal money, they work the same hours, but in cold and damp offices, earnings half of what you get for the same work in Europe (if you get 40.000 EUR, expect to get 40.000 NZ$ here, which are 20.000 EUR). Yes, living costs are "the same" compared to the rest of the industrialized world, but you earn half, so what does that mean for your spending power in a country that imports everything from toothbrushes to TVs for regular EUR and US$ prices? Many working adults in Auckland can't even afford their own apartment and you can find many groups of 3-4 40 year olds accountants, sales people, bank employees or other middle class workers, sharing houses just because the rents are so ridiculously high and they are still paying off years for a simple TV. Buying houses can be a shocking experience. The houses are not insulated and without proper heating giving New Zealanders the highest asthma statistics. It's the kind of housing you buy as "garden sheds" in Europe. This alone must be one of the weirdest aspects of this bloated, false palm tree-economy and one of the main reasons my husband and I are leaving the country soon. No realistic relation between house prices and what you get for the money. A normal garden shed type house (a timber frame with wood panels nailed on) costs about as much as a "real" house in Europe made of stone, with heating and insulation, which you pay off with halved wages. Which means, NZlers actually never own their houses, but pay "rent" to the banks all their lives. Pretending to be more than one is, is a big sport here.

Recently a lot of European immigrants have been chased out of the country after they were fired and lost their work visas. It was a little national scandal going through the leading papers, Currently New Zealand is loosing many of the foreign skilled laborers they so feverishly tried bring into the country in the past years. Also 40.000 Kiwis leave for Australia every year (which is a lot with a population of 4 million), because of the bad wages while government agencies stall applications of immigrants. What you have heard about "better have a job before coming to NZ" is a result of of that blind, confused nationalistic activism. The job situation is especially bad for everyone "skilled" like Ad and Media professionals, teachers, consultants or other office or class room professionals. There are many stories of Europeans and US citizens being mobbed and excluded from positions which are continuously advertised as free. This is not Europe or the US, so being forced to work under inhumane conditions or being subjected to mobbing and racist jokes or being excluded based on gender, race or nationality is not something you can bring to court here. It is more likely that the police will come to your house to harass you, because one of his cousins works in the same office with you and heard that you had been complaining about NZ (when all you might have said is that you are freezing at your desk because the room is unheated and that this is something that could not happen in Europe)

Under such conditions, should you still try to get a work visa from Europe or the US before coming here? Why not, but it might not be worth the paper that it is written on, because you can easily spent 6 months to a year here (finance with your own money) without being hired (despite several jobs available you would be a perfect match for) and then you have to return anyway. And you couldn't even enjoy the beach, because you are burning away your savings and subjecing yourself to unjust treatment and a world of abuse where you as a person count little. If you really need to be in this country, come here for three months on a tourist visa in a test run, and see if you could get a job in your line of work and if the money would be enough and if you can stand the "socialist economy" attitudes, store inventory, housing, and the constant degrading comments about foreigners meant to be funny, but that just get on every immigrants nerves never after the 10th time while you degrade to just another NZ cash cow. The over-eagerly nice NZ people that do everything for paying tourists are the same people that will harass and ignore anyone who attempts to settle down here and take away "their" jobs.

In any case NZ itself is always the winner, financially, but at what cost. I shudder when I think about what moral values NZ destroys, just for a short-sighted, greedy gain of undoubtedly heavy immigrant savings. And if you see yourself in old age and think about your contribution to the world, is it really the right thing to do to spend your life supporting a degrading, nature and value destroying little country with low morale? I'm not a social worker or doctor, but the thought of me supporting this country by living here, while I see what it does to people and nature, and values is something that has gotten to me over the past two years. I don't think anyone serious about not only their carbon but also their "moral" footprint wants to have that on their conscience. And also, even if you get used to being the immigrant idiot everyone takes advantage of (especially when you are an intellectual and skilled and like doing a good job), and eventually learn to steal and bribe and cheat your way up the NZ social ladder "Number 8 wire" style (because there is no other way to do it), can you get over the fact that you've been compromised by a society where dishonesty is a high moral value?. How much can you enjoy a nice beach so that you forget that constant bad feeling in your stomach of supporting the wrong cause in a place far away from friends, family and decency? Europe and the US are not great achievements of mankind in many ways, but at least, they're not prop countries, a film set where everything looks like the real thing, but isn't. The only real thing here is the nature, and it comes down to living in a "Dharma Initiative" tropical camp that rewards the ones that bribe, steal, cheat, kill and torment, and slowly destroys the honest people.

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Old 2nd January 2010, 09:31 AM
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What can I say, Pic? That's obviously one point of view.

Let's look at it from the point of view of someone who was born in the country and has New Zealand citizenship (BTW, I am not a NZ citizen).

It's a global recession. People are being made redundant - including those who are in the country on work visas.

There are less jobs to go round. If there is a job going, am I more likely to give it to a New Zealander, or an immigrant?

If there is a person in the country on a work visa, but they can't find a job, then as a country what should we do? Give them social security pay-outs? Or send them home?

As difficult as it is, I think I know what the most likely answers are....

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Old 5th January 2010, 04:12 AM
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WOW!!!!
Yes it may be more Socialist than "pic" likes, and the Maori activists etc get more attention than they deserve but I think "pic needs to get out of NZ and go home. "pic" has a little bit of an attitude problem which will definitely affect the way people will treat him/her. What a load of drivel.

I am returning to NZ after leaving for a few months - in 1986. I have been lucky enough to have the opportunity to visit and work in many countries in Europe and SE Asia (yes including the Kiwi 1st stop in OZ). And I would prefer Asia to Europe anytime.

And the reason I am coming back to NZ is so my (Asian) wife and daughter can grow up in an atmosphere of freedom, learn better English and finish her education to an internationally acceptable standard, not be subjected to the daily harassment of beggars in the streets, not be scared to drive or scared to even walk in the streets at night.

I would love to give my personal views on each country I have been to, but I would probably limit it to a sentence each not a diatribe that was not at all helpful to the person who started this thread......hmmm what was the question?

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Old 7th January 2010, 03:59 PM
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Hi All,

(topcat83)

Thanks! I'll look into it.

(PIC)

That was the longest reply ever. Geez, thanks for taking the time out to write that 5 paragraph worth of your experience. I might have to re-read it again in case i missed out anything. Seems a little gloomy on your side, where's your next move gonna be?

(KiwiNomad)

Hey, good thing to return back to NZ. Which countries have you been? Look pretty easy for you to move around from countries to countries and work anywhere you like. Since, I'm not as nomadic as you, I would like an opinion from you regarding this thread - Visa Or Job First before packing my bags and heading to NZ? I don't want to be unprepared down under eventually.

Cheers Guys!

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Old 7th January 2010, 09:00 PM
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The best advice one can give skilled NZ immigrants today is to wise up about NZ. Imagine working in a third world country or the former "DDR" and you get the picture. And befitting to a country only pretending to be a democratic capitalist economy, NZ is known amongst those who dare to read the fine print, to influence media and falsify statistics to appear like a "Britain in the Tropics". This can only be explained with the quite feeble and bribe/nepotism-riddled economy and the bad living conditions (bad housing, low wages, high crime) that apparently leave the government no choice to lie. If you haven't heard about these facts in the daily press it is due to the intelligent NZ news management. NZ earns as much (about 8 billion $) from Immigrants as from tourism. If you look closely, you can detect a policy to incorporate the immigrant savings within the first 2 years into the NZ economy without paying out any government benefits (not even if you are working and paying taxes). The majority of immigrants who has not "worked themselves poor" after these first two years, leaves, usually empty-handed and without savings. A government statistic states that 98% of immigrants are still there after 2 years. It was publicized on international travel and placed in "quality of life" articles. The truth is that only immigrants already in the country for more than 2 years have participated in it, so the majority of immigrants who had already left the country never showed up in the figures. Other "big claims" are just as unreal when you live here, like "green country", or "educational system that scored high in PISA". This is a place of make-believe. A prop-country.

In relation to work permits there are no rules that you couldn't find overthrown tomorrow. The economy is weak and unstable due to soft laws, bribing, nepotism and a brutal government employee attitude of "squeezing out money for oneself no matter what" commonly only found in this quantity in third world countries with an economically traumatized middle class like Guatemala. Any government official who can afford it has a house in other countries. That alone says a lot. And it is simply not true that the average person works less. If they want to get ahead and not drift through life with minimal money, they work the same hours, but in cold and damp offices, earnings half of what you get for the same work in Europe (if you get 40.000 EUR, expect to get 40.000 NZ$ here, which are 20.000 EUR). Yes, living costs are "the same" compared to the rest of the industrialized world, but you earn half, so what does that mean for your spending power in a country that imports everything from toothbrushes to TVs for regular EUR and US$ prices? Many working adults in Auckland can't even afford their own apartment and you can find many groups of 3-4 40 year olds accountants, sales people, bank employees or other middle class workers, sharing houses just because the rents are so ridiculously high and they are still paying off years for a simple TV. Buying houses can be a shocking experience. The houses are not insulated and without proper heating giving New Zealanders the highest asthma statistics. It's the kind of housing you buy as "garden sheds" in Europe. This alone must be one of the weirdest aspects of this bloated, false palm tree-economy and one of the main reasons my husband and I are leaving the country soon. No realistic relation between house prices and what you get for the money. A normal garden shed type house (a timber frame with wood panels nailed on) costs about as much as a "real" house in Europe made of stone, with heating and insulation, which you pay off with halved wages. Which means, NZlers actually never own their houses, but pay "rent" to the banks all their lives. Pretending to be more than one is, is a big sport here.

Recently a lot of European immigrants have been chased out of the country after they were fired and lost their work visas. It was a little national scandal going through the leading papers, Currently New Zealand is loosing many of the foreign skilled laborers they so feverishly tried bring into the country in the past years. Also 40.000 Kiwis leave for Australia every year (which is a lot with a population of 4 million), because of the bad wages while government agencies stall applications of immigrants. What you have heard about "better have a job before coming to NZ" is a result of of that blind, confused nationalistic activism. The job situation is especially bad for everyone "skilled" like Ad and Media professionals, teachers, consultants or other office or class room professionals. There are many stories of Europeans and US citizens being mobbed and excluded from positions which are continuously advertised as free. This is not Europe or the US, so being forced to work under inhumane conditions or being subjected to mobbing and racist jokes or being excluded based on gender, race or nationality is not something you can bring to court here. It is more likely that the police will come to your house to harass you, because one of his cousins works in the same office with you and heard that you had been complaining about NZ (when all you might have said is that you are freezing at your desk because the room is unheated and that this is something that could not happen in Europe)

Under such conditions, should you still try to get a work visa from Europe or the US before coming here? Why not, but it might not be worth the paper that it is written on, because you can easily spent 6 months to a year here (finance with your own money) without being hired (despite several jobs available you would be a perfect match for) and then you have to return anyway. And you couldn't even enjoy the beach, because you are burning away your savings and subjecing yourself to unjust treatment and a world of abuse where you as a person count little. If you really need to be in this country, come here for three months on a tourist visa in a test run, and see if you could get a job in your line of work and if the money would be enough and if you can stand the "socialist economy" attitudes, store inventory, housing, and the constant degrading comments about foreigners meant to be funny, but that just get on every immigrants nerves never after the 10th time while you degrade to just another NZ cash cow. The over-eagerly nice NZ people that do everything for paying tourists are the same people that will harass and ignore anyone who attempts to settle down here and take away "their" jobs.

In any case NZ itself is always the winner, financially, but at what cost. I shudder when I think about what moral values NZ destroys, just for a short-sighted, greedy gain of undoubtedly heavy immigrant savings. And if you see yourself in old age and think about your contribution to the world, is it really the right thing to do to spend your life supporting a degrading, nature and value destroying little country with low morale? I'm not a social worker or doctor, but the thought of me supporting this country by living here, while I see what it does to people and nature, and values is something that has gotten to me over the past two years. I don't think anyone serious about not only their carbon but also their "moral" footprint wants to have that on their conscience. And also, even if you get used to being the immigrant idiot everyone takes advantage of (especially when you are an intellectual and skilled and like doing a good job), and eventually learn to steal and bribe and cheat your way up the NZ social ladder "Number 8 wire" style (because there is no other way to do it), can you get over the fact that you've been compromised by a society where dishonesty is a high moral value?. How much can you enjoy a nice beach so that you forget that constant bad feeling in your stomach of supporting the wrong cause in a place far away from friends, family and decency? Europe and the US are not great achievements of mankind in many ways, but at least, they're not prop countries, a film set where everything looks like the real thing, but isn't. The only real thing here is the nature, and it comes down to living in a "Dharma Initiative" tropical camp that rewards the ones that bribe, steal, cheat, kill and torment, and slowly destroys the honest people.
That has confirmed my worse fears, and is sadly not the 1st time I have heard these views. It is these observations which are making us think we will not emmigrate to NZ.

Nice "Lost" analogy by the way!

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Old 8th January 2010, 04:35 AM
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That has confirmed my worse fears, and is sadly not the 1st time I have heard these views. It is these observations which are making us think we will not emmigrate to NZ.

Nice "Lost" analogy by the way!
...but balance the number of positive posts to negatives on this forum.

I think there are way more people who are positive about this beautiful country than negative.

Good luck, wherever you end up.

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Old 13th January 2010, 05:19 PM
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I, for one, have to (mostly) agree with pic.

My family (wife, 2 children) took a LONG look at relocating to NZ. Just so you understand our personal situation, my wife and I both have doctorates (she just received hers - took 7 years!), and we are both white collar professionals. I am an entrepreneur, and I have no fear of working for myself. Our children are at opposite ends of the developmental spectrum - one is very delayed; one is extremely advanced. The delayed child has a lot of medical issues, but he is quite stable and doing well. I filed an EOI, and we received enough points to apply despite not have any employment offers. One would think that my family (okay, not so much with my one child's issues, but otherwise) would be one that the NZ government would WANT to move there. So, we went to NZ, looked around for several weeks, returned to the US, and decided NOT to relocate there. Why?

1. Employment/Income/Expenses - yes, there is a global Great Recession, but, still, there are next to zero employment opportunities for either my wife or I, and, frankly, starting a business (legally) in NZ is next to impossible. What we were able to find for employment paid, on average, about 40% of what we earned in the US. Now, income is only half the equation - your living standard depends on income AND expenses. What we found was a joke. Everything is shockingly more expensive than in the US. Rents and housing prices are ridiculous, and the state of NZ housing stock is, and should be, a national scandal - mold, lack of insulation, poor construction, etc. Mortgages are not that easy to obtain, and the rates in NZ are much higher than in the US. Gas is triple what we pay here. Utilities - easily double. Food - double. Clothing - about 150% higher (and of much worse quality). Education - more expensive ("public" schools still require lots of fees to be paid - not so in the US). Taxes - about on par with the US now with the Obama Administration. So, we'd lose 60% of our income and pay double (or more) in expenses. Obviously, this isn't sustainable.

2. Culture - The notion that Kiwis are friendly and open to outsiders is totally false. While not outright, violently opposed to our presence, it was made clear to us, especially when we mentioned to some that we were looking to relocate to NZ, that we weren't welcome. Crime is, indeed, an issue in NZ - a lot of blossoming gang issues, especially for such a small country.

3. Education - the education system in NZ plays to the middle - basically, it's a race to mediocrity there. My delayed child? He'd suffer tremendously - few services and no assistance, unless you want to "buy" help, which would increase our expenses tremendously. My advanced child? Same issues, but in reverse. Excellence is not rewarded - it's more of a socialist, "let's all be the same" kind of attitude. The US seems some of this as well, but it's not nearly as bad here.

4. Healthcare - Despite all the joyous claims that nationalized medical care is such a great thing (thanks, Obama), we found the exact opposite. Long waits, poor care, etc. No thanks.

The list is endless, but we saw what we needed to see, and we decided to stay here. I'm not angry at NZ (unlike pic), but if you want to move there, you'd better be prepared for disappointment. It isn't what the stories say it is - no place really is. You may just be trading one type unhappiness with another.
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Old 14th January 2010, 05:36 AM
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I, for one, have to (mostly) agree with pic.

My family (wife, 2 children) took a LONG look at relocating to NZ. Just so you understand our personal situation, my wife and I both have doctorates (she just received hers - took 7 years!), and we are both white collar professionals. I am an entrepreneur, and I have no fear of working for myself. Our children are at opposite ends of the developmental spectrum - one is very delayed; one is extremely advanced. The delayed child has a lot of medical issues, but he is quite stable and doing well. I filed an EOI, and we received enough points to apply despite not have any employment offers. One would think that my family (okay, not so much with my one child's issues, but otherwise) would be one that the NZ government would WANT to move there. So, we went to NZ, looked around for several weeks, returned to the US, and decided NOT to relocate there.
American Guy, you and your family are obviously in the lucky position of being a reasonably high income family - can I answer what our (and our friends experience) has been as middle-income families, mainly from the UK?

Quote:
1. Employment/Income/Expenses - yes, there is a global Great Recession, but, still, there are next to zero employment opportunities for either my wife or I, and, frankly, starting a business (legally) in NZ is next to impossible. What we were able to find for employment paid, on average, about 40% of what we earned in the US.
I'd agree with this - we estimate our income to be about two-thirds what it was in the UK
Quote:
Now, income is only half the equation - your living standard depends on income AND expenses. What we found was a joke. Everything is shockingly more expensive than in the US.
but we didn't find this when compared with the UK. And i think it would depend which part of the US you were living in.
Quote:
Rents and housing prices are ridiculous
We certainly didn't find this. We have a beautiful 4 double-bedroomed house with views over the water to Auckland in a lovely suburb for the same price we paid for a small three-bedroomed semi in the outskirts of London.
Quote:
and the state of NZ housing stock is, and should be, a national scandal - mold, lack of insulation, poor construction, etc.
....in SOME houses. There has been a problem with some houses built within a certain date range, and it HAS caused a national scandal. The thing to do is to be careful when choosing a house, or build your own. New builds are generally a very good quality now.
Quote:
Mortgages are not that easy to obtain, and the rates in NZ are much higher than in the US.
And when compared to the UK. Probably the biggest issue here - a number of friends have overstretched themselves. The thing to do is to realise in advance and plan accordingly.
Quote:
Gas is triple what we pay here. Utilities - easily double.
But not when compared to the UK.
Quote:
Food - double.
Don't buy imported and stick to NZ produce and it isn't
Quote:
Clothing - about 150% higher (and of much worse quality).
Depends where you shop. I've found some great clothes shops at really reasonable prices
Quote:
Education - more expensive ("public" schools still require lots of fees to be paid - not so in the US).
'Public' schools have a donation system that it is strongly suggested you pay - but it is a donation, it tends to be at the higher decile schools (where the parents are in a high income bracket) and generally the education standard in these shcools is very good.
Quote:
Taxes - about on par with the US now with the Obama Administration.
So you're obviously a Republican....... Could explain why some Kiwis weren't that friendly
Quote:
So, we'd lose 60% of our income and pay double (or more) in expenses. Obviously, this isn't sustainable.
If i were you i'd stay at home

Quote:
2. Culture - The notion that Kiwis are friendly and open to outsiders is totally false. While not outright, violently opposed to our presence, it was made clear to us, especially when we mentioned to some that we were looking to relocate to NZ, that we weren't welcome.
See comment above We've had no problems.
Quote:
Crime is, indeed, an issue in NZ - a lot of blossoming gang issues, especially for such a small country.
You've obviously not been to London recently - Harrow is becoming a ghetto. In the NZ this tends to be limited to the Maori gangs, they keep themselves to themselves, and it's not 'blossoming' - it's been here for a long time, and is historical.

Quote:
3. Education - the education system in NZ plays to the middle - basically, it's a race to mediocrity there. My delayed child? He'd suffer tremendously - few services and no assistance, unless you want to "buy" help, which would increase our expenses tremendously. My advanced child? Same issues, but in reverse. Excellence is not rewarded - it's more of a socialist, "let's all be the same" kind of attitude.
Can't comment on the delayed child - but at the advanced end? I have a friend with a gifted child, and they have nothing but praise. The child is helped at every stage by being put in classes at higher yeargroups for lessons, while still being encouraged to keep friends in her own yeargroup.

Quote:
4. Healthcare - Despite all the joyous claims that nationalized medical care is such a great thing (thanks, Obama), we found the exact opposite. Long waits, poor care, etc. No thanks.
You can obviously afford the healthcare insurance that gives you that high level of care. Try asking someone who has been made redundant what they'd prefer - no health cover at all, or pretty decent health cover at a very reasonable cost. I know what I'd choose every time.

Quote:
The list is endless, but we saw what we needed to see, and we decided to stay here. I'm not angry at NZ (unlike pic), but if you want to move there, you'd better be prepared for disappointment. It isn't what the stories say it is - no place really is. You may just be trading one type unhappiness with another.
I do recommend that people do their homework and don't come over with rose-coloured glasses.

And expect it to rain. There's a reason why the Maori name is 'Land of the Long White Cloud

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Old 18th January 2010, 04:58 AM
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Hm, I guess I wrote myself into a hot frenzy there in "the worlds longest forum post". Nevertheless we just came back from a trip to one of the national parks (a word that means "protected land" in other countries). Again we were forced to rethink our decision to leave NZ, when looking at the breathtaking landscape. But then we saw that "national park" means "amusement park" in NZ, with 300 Ski Lifts on land that was donated by the Maori to be protected and cherished, not to be run to the ground with tourism. (I wonder who pockets the money that is made on the sacred mountains. The Maori chief who donated the land must turn in his grave with sad rage every winter season)

And to shorten the discussion about good versus bad comments: Your view onto NZ explains itself based on where you come from. If you come from Europe and the US, NZ is 2-3 grades down in job security, housing, democratic stability, safety and earning power. When you come from other countries, it is 2-10 grades up in all those aspects. I would bet that most of the positive posts were made by people originating from India, Asia, the former Soviet Union, South America, Eastern Europe, Africa and countries with similar political/economical/social conditions (or from people who live close to the bottom of the economic ladder in Europe or the US) No problem with NZ being at the lower end of democracy, if it wasn't for the falsified statistics and misleading brand image that NZ fabricates to trick international professionals into thinking they can find adequate work here. American Guy was clever and checked the facts personally before moving here. My husband and I, we just didn't think that a government would play with the asset of the hard working professionals that are the breadwinners of each country so carelessly. That still blows my mind, but it helps to see NZ as a third world country to understand how economic desperation drives a nation to exploit and then throw away the good people instead of using them to lift NZ out of poverty.

The heart wrenching aspect about New Zealand is that just the beauty of the landscape alone would justify living here, if new Zealanders wouldn't systematically destroy everything beautiful and turn the country into a trash-littered Trailer Park, which you have to look at every day as you drive through it to work or to the stores. And even if you found a still untouched piece of land, there would already be those ugly little sections, half filled with overpriced box houses that look like a dog sheds. You know, those houses where the bath tiles are put up on the outside (to hose down the house?) and where the top of the windows touch the roof (a design that takes the European traditional style and just saves a few inches of material resulting in this ridiculous caricature of a squashed wood cabin). Ironically, with that missing space above the windows it looks like the face of someone with a very low forehead.

And now people with countries that have been striped of all wood, fish, wildlife and other natural resources have discovered NZ and are in the process of consuming it up until there is nothing left. NZ is like a gigantic, mostly unprotected national conservation park and a little paradise for all who like to fish, hunt, camp and house-build the worlds ugliest houses, as if there was no tomorrow. For someone who doesn't give a damn, life is always easy and great, ESPECIALLY in New Zealand where one can safely harvest, cut down, run down, cover with concrete and litter with garbage. Of course these people would have only good things to say about NZ but I think I wouldn't have anything good to say about them.

It's not easy to leave NZ's natural beauty behind and we'll definitely be back, but not to work and live here, only as tourists, like all others who would have helped to push NZ to world standard but instead are pushed out by the mediocre and greedy who can now again be safely amongst themselves and continue to stew in their own juices.

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Old 18th January 2010, 06:36 AM
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Users Flag! Originally from england. Users Flag! Expat in newzealand.
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Hi Pic Lol! I just love reading your postings.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by pic View Post
Hm, I guess I wrote myself into a hot frenzy there in "the worlds longest forum post". Nevertheless we just came back from a trip to one of the national parks (a word that means "protected land" in other countries). Again we were forced to rethink our decision to leave NZ, when looking at the breathtaking landscape. But then we saw that "national park" means "amusement park" in NZ, with 300 Ski Lifts on land that was donated by the Maori to be protected and cherished, not to be run to the ground with tourism. (I wonder who pockets the money that is made on the sacred mountains. The Maori chief who donated the land must turn in his grave with sad rage every winter season)
300 ski lifts - I'd be amazed if there were 300 in the whole of NZ!!! In comparison to many countries 9including France) we have a very small ski industry - although it is growing.

Quote:
And to shorten the discussion about good versus bad comments: Your view onto NZ explains itself based on where you come from. If you come from Europe and the US, NZ is 2-3 grades down in job security, housing, democratic stability, safety and earning power. When you come from other countries, it is 2-10 grades up in all those aspects. I would bet that most of the positive posts were made by people originating from India, Asia, the former Soviet Union, South America, Eastern Europe, Africa and countries with similar political/economical/social conditions (or from people who live close to the bottom of the economic ladder in Europe or the US)
Actually many of us (me included) come from the UK. Although I can't say the UK doesn't have its problems i don't think it fits into the categories you've just mentioned.....

Quote:
No problem with NZ being at the lower end of democracy, if it wasn't for the falsified statistics and misleading brand image that NZ fabricates to trick international professionals into thinking they can find adequate work here.
NZ was the first country to give women the vote, and to have a woman PM. I personally think it is one of the most democratic countries I have ever visited. (after saying that, National is in now - with a few too many Thatcher-like policies for my liking )

Quote:
American Guy was clever and checked the facts personally before moving here.
Agreed - it isn't for everyone)

Quote:
My husband and I, we just didn't think that a government would play with the asset of the hard working professionals that are the breadwinners of each country so carelessly. That still blows my mind, but it helps to see NZ as a third world country to understand how economic desperation drives a nation to exploit and then throw away the good people instead of using them to lift NZ out of poverty.
....except we were never in a depression when compared with the rest of the world. It really hasn't been that bad over the last couple of years. I know - I've been living and working here.

Quote:
The heart wrenching aspect about New Zealand is that just the beauty of the landscape alone would justify living here, if new Zealanders wouldn't systematically destroy everything beautiful and turn the country into a trash-littered Trailer Park, which you have to look at every day as you drive through it to work or to the stores.[
Sorry - are we talking about the same country here? I don't recognise your description.

Quote:
And even if you found a still untouched piece of land, there would already be those ugly little sections, half filled with overpriced box houses that look like a dog sheds. You know, those houses where the bath tiles are put up on the outside (to hose down the house?) and where the top of the windows touch the roof (a design that takes the European traditional style and just saves a few inches of material resulting in this ridiculous caricature of a squashed wood cabin). Ironically, with that missing space above the windows it looks like the face of someone with a very low forehead.
I think you've just become offensive and placed yourself firmly in the court of someone with a chip on their shoulder who should have their visa permanentlt rescinded.... This is my chosen country you are talking about and (warts and all) I love living here.

Quote:
And now people with countries that have been striped of all wood, fish, wildlife and other natural resources have discovered NZ and are in the process of consuming it up until there is nothing left. NZ is like a gigantic, mostly unprotected national conservation park and a little paradise for all who like to fish, hunt, camp and house-build the worlds ugliest houses, as if there was no tomorrow. For someone who doesn't give a damn, life is always easy and great, ESPECIALLY in New Zealand where one can safely harvest, cut down, run down, cover with concrete and litter with garbage. Of course these people would have only good things to say about NZ but I think I wouldn't have anything good to say about them.
I was surprised about the number of 'hunter-gatherers' there are in NZ - but that is because they have looked after their resources, and therefore there are things to hunt and gather. For example, there are very strict quotas and rules about the number and size of fish that you can take. Paua (abalone) cannot be harvested using scuba gear. There are extremely strict rules THAT ARE ENFORCED. You can have your car and boat confiscated if you are caught breaking the rules. There are large marine reserves and national parks. Many islands off the coast are now home to endangered species. Hydroelectric schemes have been curtailed to prevent the raising of some lakes. Does this sound like a country that is not looking after its wildlife and natural resources?

Quote:
It's not easy to leave NZ's natural beauty behind and we'll definitely be back, but not to work and live here, only as tourists, like all others who would have helped to push NZ to world standard but instead are pushed out by the mediocre and greedy who can now again be safely amongst themselves and continue to stew in their own juices.
Please don't come back, even as a tourist - we don't want someone who slags us off. Find somewhere else to slag off - I'm sure you will.

We need people who will be a positive influence on this country, and I don't think you make the grade.
Lunar007 and relocatella like this.

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