The Impeachment Thread - Page 4

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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 5th December 2019, 03:06 PM
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You might well ask; I suppose you could say I'm an insider and I wonder too. But if I had to suggest reasons I would say it's because people believe what they read in the media; the reason they believe it is because people in the UK seem to have lost the ability to be critical, question what they hear and read, analyse and assess and do their own research; and the reason it's a problem is because the media is owned by people with a vested interest and churns out biased crap designed to manipulate people. And it works. The EU has spotted this, they've several time remarked on the role played by the UK media, but the Brits at home can't seem to see it, they just carry on reading their favourite tabloid and regurgitating what they've read.
Yep and they exported that to the US as Fox News, which has the same effect here. If I wanted to believe in some conspiracy of global elites it would be this that I'd point to as the conspiracy, not the stuff this type of media works to convince its readers/viewers is the global conspiracy. But I tend more to lean to it not being a conspiracy at all but just individual rich people trying to make themselves richer and it having unintended side effects. Like Trump and BJ.

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 5th December 2019, 03:35 PM
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The other night I was awake from 2:30am for no reason and I listened to this interview on the BBC app. Roger McNamee was an investor in Facebook and an influence on Mark Zuckerberg until a few years ago, when he realized what a detrimental effect FB and its algorithms have had on elections and discourse.

One of the things he pointed out was how, because of the specificity of ad/audience targeting, depending on how you have been pigeonholed, you will see completely different ads and news to someone else in a different pigeonhole. The world you see will be completely different to the one your more conservative or more liberal neighbour down the street. It's not like when we all shared the same experience and information when JFK was assassinated, or when the twin towers fell, or whatever iconic event you want to reference. People get completely different worldviews which don't overlap but only intersect in points of conflict.

Now me, I don't do facebook or twitter or any of that, but still, I read the Guardian and the NY Times and the Washington Post, and listen to NPR. My Trumpist sister-in-law gets her news from Faux News, conservative radio, Breitbart and Facebook. It's not surprising that we don't see the same universe.

McNamee also pointed out that the Russian (and other) disinformation campaign and bots etc, aren't hacking the system, they are using the system as it was designed, and that the flaw is in the system and the size of the system.


The TED Interview - Roger McNamee - @BBCRadio4Extra http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000bwqg

(The interviewer I recognized as the basis for one of the characters on W1A...)
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 5th December 2019, 03:50 PM
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The other night I was awake from 2:30am for no reason and I listened to this interview on the BBC app. Roger McNamee was an investor in Facebook and an influence on Mark Zuckerberg until a few years ago, when he realized what a detrimental effect FB and its algorithms have had on elections and discourse.

One of the things he pointed out was how, because of the specificity of ad/audience targeting, depending on how you have been pigeonholed, you will see completely different ads and news to someone else in a different pigeonhole. The world you see will be completely different to the one your more conservative or more liberal neighbour down the street. It's not like when we all shared the same experience and information when JFK was assassinated, or when the twin towers fell, or whatever iconic event you want to reference. People get completely different worldviews which don't overlap but only intersect in points of conflict.

Now me, I don't do facebook or twitter or any of that, but still, I read the Guardian and the NY Times and the Washington Post, and listen to NPR. My Trumpist sister-in-law gets her news from Faux News, conservative radio, Breitbart and Facebook. It's not surprising that we don't see the same universe.

McNamee also pointed out that the Russian (and other) disinformation campaign and bots etc, aren't hacking the system, they are using the system as it was designed, and that the flaw is in the system and the size of the system.


The TED Interview - Roger McNamee - @BBCRadio4Extra http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000bwqg

(The interviewer I recognized as the basis for one of the characters on W1A...)
But how do you put the genie back in the bottle? Or since you can't, how do you solve the problems it caused? Can't listen to this now but does he have any ideas that sound reasonable to you on how to fix it?

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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 5th December 2019, 03:55 PM
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McNamee believes that the algorithms could be changed and that would make a huge difference. He said that Zuckerberg could do massively more good for the planet by altering the algorithms than by anything he could do with his non-profit charitable foundations. He hopes he will wake up soon and do the needful. Frankly, he lets Zuckerberg off far too lightly.

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Old 5th December 2019, 03:57 PM
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Oh, are you gonna love it when you get over here! I know every trip I've made back to the US to visit friends and family I have been absolutely gobsmacked at the level of advertising one is exposed to back there. (Full disclosure: my last visit to the US was back in 2014)

I swear when I was growing up there (centuries ago, I guess it was), we actually did some units in school about advertising and how "devious" it was. Maybe I just had counter culture teachers back in the day, but I learned to pretty much ignore most ads on television, or at least I knew how to debunk them. But the sheer volume of ads on TV over there seems to have increased, as well as the repetition of the same ads over and over again during a brief period of time. Thank goodness for the ad blockers on Internet browsers! The only "political ads" I see on Facebook are the memes that friends and family post - and I can just ignore the "offensive" ones (though so far I have only un-friended one particularly obnoxious "friend" back in the Old Country over politics).

Advertising over here is much more low key. And even TV news is considerably subdued compared to the frenzy of US TV news. It takes some getting used to, but once you do you'll see the Old Country in an entirely new light.

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Old 5th December 2019, 04:03 PM
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I have zero tolerance for ads. We don't have broadcast TV, just what we choose to watch on the internet. But even so, it has gotten crazy. For instance, you go to fill up your car and the gas pump itself is showing you animated ads, because you are not expected to have the attention span of your own thoughts for the time it takes to fill your tank.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 5th December 2019, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ChezCheese:) View Post
I it has gotten crazy. For instance, you go to fill up your car and the gas pump itself is showing you animated ads, because you are not expected to have the attention span of your own thoughts for the time it takes to fill your tank.
Same in france.

We have ads on a LCD screen when we fill up.

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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 5th December 2019, 04:19 PM
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Same in france.

We have ads on a LCD screen when we fill up.
Thank goodness those haven't reached where I live in France. Maybe buying gas at the grocery store (many of the larger chain grocery stores sell gas) is what saves me from that. But I just saw that Costco here is putting in gas pumps - I kind of doubt they'll do ads on those.

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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 5th December 2019, 04:21 PM
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Same in france.

We have ads on a LCD screen when we fill up.
We don't have that sort of problem since we fill up at the olive oil co-operative - no ads, nothing but a fuel pump and a pay terminal and all at at least 0,10€ less per litre.

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Old 5th December 2019, 04:27 PM
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Ooh! Olive oil biodiesel!

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