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I voted Brexit and I want to move to France - Page 10


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  #91 (permalink)  
Old 15th July 2019, 05:53 AM
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As I understand it, all it means is that someone like Steve will need to exchange his current titre de séjour for a new one - in due course that is (when the Prefectures are able to deal with it). So Steve's CDS will not be worthless, because he will be able to use it for the exchange.
I'm not even sure about that. The annual CDS has a "category" listed on it - such as the "ressortisant EU" or whatever. But once you graduate to a multi-year card, it's simply a multi-year card. What I think Steve has now is the carte de resident de long durée-UE, which is the same card they give non-EU nationals once they have at least 5 years of residence in France. I don't believe it indicates what your "original" short term card was.

I believe it will only be those on the annual cards who may have to re-apply during the "grace period" for their residence permits.

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Old 15th July 2019, 07:57 AM
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Y
As to why those who have left the UK still care about Brexit, I think we all maintain some attachment to the land of our birth especially if we've spent the majority of our lives there and still have family and/or friends there. Even if I move to France and spend the rest of my life there and become a citizen and master the Gallic Shrug I expect that I (and everyone else) will still think of myself as American.
Because for many, if not most, of us, our entitlement to live where we do in other EU countries depends on our being EU citizens and if Brexit happens, we will no longer be EU citizens unless the EU is magnanimous and says that all Brits who moved to other EU countries to take up residence prior to the date, may retain some form of "honorary" EU citizenship.

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  #93 (permalink)  
Old 15th July 2019, 08:55 AM
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Because for many, if not most, of us, our entitlement to live where we do in other EU countries depends on our being EU citizens and if Brexit happens, we will no longer be EU citizens unless the EU is magnanimous and says that all Brits who moved to other EU countries to take up residence prior to the date, may retain some form of "honorary" EU citizenship.
What the EU does do is grant a form of "long term residence" to non-EU nationals who have been legally living in an EU country for 5 or more years. In France this is the "carte resident long durée-EU". This is Europa's information on the matter: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizen...e/index_en.htm

For those just arriving, there are the "usual" visa and residence permit considerations once the UK has actually left the EU. While it's kind of a pity losing a "right" like this, it does seem to be what the UK wants. And plenty of non-EU nationals have managed over the years without undue hardship.

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Old 15th July 2019, 09:23 AM
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What the EU does do is grant a form of "long term residence" to non-EU nationals who have been legally living in an EU country for 5 or more years. In France this is the "carte resident long durée-EU". This is Europa's information on the matter: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizen...e/index_en.htm

For those just arriving, there are the "usual" visa and residence permit considerations once the UK has actually left the EU. While it's kind of a pity losing a "right" like this, it does seem to be what the UK wants. And plenty of non-EU nationals have managed over the years without undue hardship.
There is also the financial aspect.

Before you can move freely as you like regardless of income.

After Brexit, that will change. You will have show that you can afford to live in France.

Running a gîte will not work.

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Old 15th July 2019, 10:26 AM
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As to why those who have left the UK still care about Brexit, I think we all maintain some attachment to the land of our birth especially if we've spent the majority of our lives there and still have family and/or friends there. Even if I move to France and spend the rest of my life there and become a citizen and master the Gallic Shrug I expect that I (and everyone else) will still think of myself as American.

=.
There is of course the pension question. Those receiving a state pension from the uk are entitled to an annual rise, just like pensioners still living in the uk.

If there is a hard Brexit we will still receive the pension but it is likely to be fixed, as is the case at present in many parts of the world. No annual increase.

The exchange rate is already unfavourable because of the uncertainty as to what is going to happen and I feel sorry for those who only have their uk pension to live on.

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  #96 (permalink)  
Old 15th July 2019, 11:05 AM
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There is also the financial aspect.

Before you can move freely as you like regardless of income.

After Brexit, that will change. You will have show that you can afford to live in France.

Running a gîte will not work.
Um, isn't that precisely what you've carped at expat wannabees about? I'd take it as a plus point that the immigration process will do a bit of much-needed screening.

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Old 15th July 2019, 12:08 PM
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The annual CDS has a "category" listed on it - such as the "ressortisant EU" or whatever. But once you graduate to a multi-year card, it's simply a multi-year card.
Is it?
Mine says:
CARTE DE SEJOUR CITOYEN UE/EEE/SUISSE
SEJOUR PERMANENT
TOUTES ACTIVITES PROFESSIONNELLES

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Old 15th July 2019, 01:01 PM
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Is it?
Mine says:
CARTE DE SEJOUR CITOYEN UE/EEE/SUISSE
SEJOUR PERMANENT
TOUTES ACTIVITES PROFESSIONNELLES
What's the expiration date on the card? Because normally, that is what they are going to go by. It will be the renewal of your card at the appropriate time that may or may not become an issue. (But of course we won't know that until we know what sort of Brexit it winds up being.)

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Old 15th July 2019, 03:12 PM
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OK - we're obviously going to have to start over again if folks want to "discuss" Brexit. This conversation is at an end.

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Old 15th July 2019, 03:16 PM
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On the question of CDS, I think it's the case that UK citizens have a card of the type intended for EU citizens. After Brexit we won't be EU citizens, so there is a real question as to whether the cards will remain valid. As far as I know the situation is that 10 year/longue duree cards will be exchangeable for the new cards, in all other cases a dossier will have to be resubmitted. It would seem that the new cards will not be exactly the same as CDS for current immigrants who are non-EU citizens, because they should be intended to guarantee continuation of our current rights as EU citizens living in France; that will not extend to freedom of movement though.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As to why we care so much about it, there are many practical reasons (that will be different for each of us) but could include:
- the future of our pension rights;
- whether or not we will continue to have the same health care rights and in particular whether we will continue to have rights to health care if we return (temporarily or permanently) to the UK;
- the exchange rate is going to be crucially important - if we're paid in GBP we've already taken a serious hit to our income as a result of fluctuations;
- those of us with mixed UK/French relationships could find ourselves in a very hard place: for example if a UK citizen returns to the UK (to look after a sick family member for example) a French spouse would only have the right to accompany them if they meet minimum income rules (which are quite complicated; having a promise of a job doesn't count, for example); the visas also cost £1523 per person and can take a couple of years to obtain;
- mixed relationships again: consider a French parent who has moved back to France, but whose children remain in the UK, and have children of their own. They (the grandparents) will not have the automatic right to make long-term visits to see or care for their grandchildren;
- for a variety of careers international recognition of UK professional qualifications is at risk;
- for some workers who regularly cross borders as part of their work that freedom, and therefore possibly their job, is at risk;
- by no means least we have family and many friends living in the UK who are seriously affected by Brexit.

The list is surely longer than that. And for those of you who do not originate in the UK but have successfully negotiated migration, the situation is not quite the same: you have made the change, and have adapted, in the full knowledge of what you were doing and how it would affect you. I don't want this to be personal but Bev, for example, from what you say it seems that you have developed a life which has moved from one place to another. I've developed a working and family life over 40 years that is intimately and deeply linked and cross-linked across borders: UK/French/Spanish/German. It has been in the nature of my life as a European to have family and friends married and/or working across international borders. Those links are about to be messed up big time. OK, I'll survive - but it keeps me interested in the process. Very interested.

But also, I have surprised myself by how much I have been disturbed by the whole Brexit thing, despite the practical aspects (in my case) not being too worrying and in any case manageable. I think it's because it attacks my sense of who I am.

If anyone had said that to me a few years ago, I would have snorted and said "I know exactly who I am" and piddling changes like the colour of my passport don't affect it. But in the event I do feel that my sense of who I am is changing, and I don't like it. Before, I felt part of the idea of Europe, of European languages and culture, music, history and science. British yes, with Scots and Welsh parents but also essentially European. You might argue that in myself nothing will be changed by Brexit, but I don't think that's true: what does it mean to have a British part of my identity if a large part of Britain rejects the European ideal? I don't have any answers to these questions - which I admit are not very precisely defined - but it has affected me, and more than I anticipated.
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