Looking to buy in Abruzzo - Page 3

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Looking to buy in Abruzzo - Page 3


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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 24th July 2010, 07:04 PM
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Just one point that i would want to comment on - you mention the 'speed of the process' - who, do you think, wants the process to be so speedy? Not the buyer, that's for sure. But the 'process' is designed to suit the vendor, and the notary system is absolutely lethal in my opinion - no one who isn't used to such a system can possibly understand it, let along handle it - you can get all the advice you want, and maybe even insure your property to the nth degree, but it won't make any difference if things go wrong - then you find you are a foreigner in a foreign country, and you haven't a leg to stand on. which is why i maintain that it is foolish to buy in italy, particularly in an area that has just suffered a catastrophic earthquake. that's my view, for what it's worth.
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Old 24th July 2010, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJORDAN View Post
Hi, We are travelling to Abruzzo at the end of August, hopefuuly looking to find a property to buy. In reading several of the Expats experiences in the process I was hoping for some advice. We have no grasp of the Italian language and will certainly need assistance, from start to the end of completion.
Should we get the services of HousearoudItaly etc. or can anybody give me feedback in the process they have followed and how they found their own Notary, Geometra?
Thanks ( A VERY EXCITED)
Andrea
As a quite drunk, " large", Irish "business" woman once said to me in a castle hotel restaurant in Loreta Aprutino "Well you can buy a "pig in a poke" in England as well as in Abruzzo" I think that woman knew very well what a pig in a poke was.


Any one who has property out there would probably agree with the following:-

- Whatever it costs it is too high a cost, half it then half it again and that is probably too much.
- However much they say it will cost to repair times it by four at least
- What is above, underneath and to the side of your property? It is almost certainly a deadly liability. When they say an area is going to be rebuilt, regenerated or renovated - it almost certainly won't be.
- Builders and Geometras have formed a newxxxx alliance in the wake of the earthquake - think of the british builder scratchy head sharp intake of breath scenario and times it by 20.
- Is the estate agent you use qualified. I mean an actual professional estate agency qualification that means something and you can look it up. If not then that means something, because noone professional will touch them. Honestly it does. It doesnt matter that they have been on TV. Lots of very dodgy people have been on TV.
- Most of the Abruzzo lies in the RED EARTHQUAKE ZONE. You can google this quite easily. Most Italians from Rome, the really smart money, are buying up land but not property. (who runs this website??) A lot of the Abruzzo lies on a fault line.
- Selling off old property to foreigners is quite a good income generator for towns in Italy and some estate agents and mayors of towns would, I imagine but couldn't possibly say for sure, be quite friendly. After all, one can only imagine that it would be quite beneficial to some people.
- If you just have to go ahead and buy then take a lot of time to do so. Don't rush. Noone else it going to buy it, honestly. It wont be worth anything once you have bought it anyway so take your time.
- There are lots of Brits out there who could advise you. Probably one in every town. They will be able to advise.
- Personally, I would travel around and not go to the most obvious place to buy a property. Hope this helps.

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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 25th July 2010, 08:30 AM
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interesting to read these posts but on the whole i disagree with the advice given. not all of abruzzo is in the earthquake zone and not all agents/geometras are crooked. like all other countries it has its' share of dodgy businesses but on the whole i have found the agencies and builders to be honest hardworking and truthful. i found the legal system excellent everything was explained and i could have the option of having an english translator present during the signing of any legal documents if i wanted(i didn't as i speak enough italian to be able to understand what was being said.)i live in the north part of abruzzo where there is little danger of earthquake damage. i wouldn't buy a ruin in the uk as i realise how much it costs eventually to renovate likewise i didn't buy a ruin in abruzzo but there are bargains to be had just takes a little time and patience to find them. good luck p.s. if you would like some constructive advice/information just pm me.


Last edited by sheilamarsco; 25th July 2010 at 08:34 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 25th July 2010, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheilamarsco View Post
interesting to read these posts but on the whole i disagree with the advice given. not all of abruzzo is in the earthquake zone and not all agents/geometras are crooked. like all other countries it has its' share of dodgy businesses but on the whole i have found the agencies and builders to be honest hardworking and truthful. i found the legal system excellent everything was explained and i could have the option of having an english translator present during the signing of any legal documents if i wanted(i didn't as i speak enough italian to be able to understand what was being said.)i live in the north part of abruzzo where there is little danger of earthquake damage. i wouldn't buy a ruin in the uk as i realise how much it costs eventually to renovate likewise i didn't buy a ruin in abruzzo but there are bargains to be had just takes a little time and patience to find them. good luck p.s. if you would like some constructive advice/information just pm me.
To anyone genuine out there who is looking to buy a house in Ab bear this in mind. House estate agents use this site as well to generate interest in buying houses. Not all the information you read hear is worth listening to.

Yes the legal system works damm swiftly when you are buying. We have a house in a town where there are now many people trying to use that same legal system to a) get compensation for damage on their house b) to make claims because they were missold property which should never have been sold in the first place because it was unsafe etc etc. Not so swift now is it? No quite so efficient and not quite so excellent.

Bear in mind that a house that looks perfectly solid, respectable and as if it could stand for the next century could quite easily have many many things wrong with it. And if next door, or above you or god forbid beneath you is damaged then your perfectly solid house will probably be stuffed anyway.

Before you buy you will firstly need a competent and non biased geometra, [tricky if you cant speak Italian] then i would suggest going to the town commune and asking for their professional architect to take a look at it [again good luck]

By the way in our town the Commune Professional Architect told us that in Umbria the Councils are now banning the sale of older properties to foreigners because they want to stop "third parties" [imagine who] raking in profits from them. This is likely to happen elsewhere soon.

This is a very important rule to bear in mind. Since the earthquake, before any work can be done on a house it now has to be signed off by a geometra as "earthquake safe" - I can't remember the technical terms. For a house to be technically safe in this post earthquake age it needs to have a whole host of structural safeguards in place. This will cost a great deal of money. If in doubt read a thread from Pam in the old thread "moving to ofena". Infact read the whole thread you will get a taste of what has gone before by people who have actually been there and know what they are talking about.

Oh - and by the way. Getting to know the expats is one of the great joys of having a house in Italy. Particuarly, I would have thought if you cant speak Italian (which we can)....

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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 25th July 2010, 05:13 PM
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just for the record i am a retired nurse and have nothing to do with estate agents in italy so i have no interest in promoting their business. i am expressing my own experience and have no complaints with the services i received.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoandGillian View Post
To anyone genuine out there who is looking to buy a house in Ab bear this in mind. House estate agents use this site as well to generate interest in buying houses. Not all the information you read hear is worth listening to.

Yes the legal system works damm swiftly when you are buying. We have a house in a town where there are now many people trying to use that same legal system to a) get compensation for damage on their house b) to make claims because they were missold property which should never have been sold in the first place because it was unsafe etc etc. Not so swift now is it? No quite so efficient and not quite so excellent.

Bear in mind that a house that looks perfectly solid, respectable and as if it could stand for the next century could quite easily have many many things wrong with it. And if next door, or above you or god forbid beneath you is damaged then your perfectly solid house will probably be stuffed anyway.

Before you buy you will firstly need a competent and non biased geometra, [tricky if you cant speak Italian] then i would suggest going to the town commune and asking for their professional architect to take a look at it [again good luck]

By the way in our town the Commune Professional Architect told us that in Umbria the Councils are now banning the sale of older properties to foreigners because they want to stop "third parties" [imagine who] raking in profits from them. This is likely to happen elsewhere soon.

This is a very important rule to bear in mind. Since the earthquake, before any work can be done on a house it now has to be signed off by a geometra as "earthquake safe" - I can't remember the technical terms. For a house to be technically safe in this post earthquake age it needs to have a whole host of structural safeguards in place. This will cost a great deal of money. If in doubt read a thread from Pam in the old thread "moving to ofena". Infact read the whole thread you will get a taste of what has gone before by people who have actually been there and know what they are talking about.

Oh - and by the way. Getting to know the expats is one of the great joys of having a house in Italy. Particuarly, I would have thought if you cant speak Italian (which we can)....

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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 28th July 2010, 08:33 AM
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i agree whith sheala ande i think the best way to find a house is t5o stay in area for a few days to get the feal for that area , not be taken to lots of areas not to even know were you have been at the end of the day

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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 28th July 2010, 04:51 PM
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just to preface my points on here with a disclaimer.. i am attached to an estate agency here.. well i do the web based work.. but this site does not allow signatures and self publication so i add neither and do neither although i recognize easily the ones that do

i find quite astonishing this blanket labeling of Abruzzo as an earthquake zone and have written very clearly in loads of places, other Italian forums, my face book pages and even our website re the problems and hazards of buying in certain areas of Abruzzo and exactly why it costs so little....

for the facts.. go to the civil protection website and they have a full list of all comunes in Italy and their risk status

i have worked here in Abruzzo for almost ten years now and have received in various forms emails, phone calls and threats of several types due to the fact that i have spoken out on many subjects relating to unscrupulous sales practices by many agencies here.. and to be honest most of them with heavy ex-pat involvement... which strikes me as even worse when you do it to your own..

most of the upset and angry advice given re buildings in Abruzzo is totally wrong.. and applies mainly to the L'Aquila crater where the earthquake occurred.. the compensation zone.. other areas which suffered light damage applied to get help and many people with old houses in these areas seeing a chance of getting their houses done up for free put in applications.. not for-seeing that by exaggerating the damage they would have their house declared non - livable and so now they have to have major intervention with compensation help to gain a certifcate which allows them to be declared habitable...

outside of these main damage areas there has been no real problems.. i lived here throughout the earthquake and if as suggested the whole of Abruzzo is so at risk it surprises me somewhat to say that we still have tens of thousands of people from L'Aquila living here in the province of Teramo as a place of refuge.. and in the immediate aftermath of the quake Teramo the city and the province was used to house and hospitalize the main bulk of the survivors at one stage almost 50,00 people being helped here... i doubt any rescue and refugee program would have allowed them to be moved here if the area was considered as unsafe.

you may look at things in any way you want re hazards and life.. L'Aquila has a history of severe quakes but all along the Apennines to the western side there is a major fault line and who buys there in Italy is assured there will be problems.. there are several hundred earth tremors recorded in Italy every day.

If you can be bothered to check Abruzzo is actually not the area with the major amounts of deaths in recent history, sicily and campania far more,

A final word for now.. i guess.. There are 4 levels of risk 1 the highest to 4 the lowest.. you will be hard put to find an area without it being included in this list.. i was surprised to read about one poor person that lost a house in L'Aquila and has since bought a house in the province of Chieti.. being sold the house by an English run agency.. registered or not i dont know.. thinking he had left earthquakes behind.. he has bought into another seismic one area.. most probably told the lie by the agency that there was no risk.. what should i do ..send him a pm and tell him and get him all worried.. or just let it be.. he writes their praises everywhere how sweet and kind they were..

so i let him be.. i have enough troubles already with the ex-pat community here in Abruzzo.. the only definite non seismic one area in abruzzo is Teramo.. Chieti has loads.. and so does Pescara .. but check yourselves.. i did before buying ... and that was ten years ago...

another fact.. i have written about it a lot on facebook is there is reems of research and study about earthquakes in Italy mainly in Italian .. they are very good at predicting qukes with a timescale.. ie a quake will occur along this fault line in the next 10 years.. or if they said 50 years 49 years ago then in 1 year...

they measure pressure build and land movement and use historic records and they say that within 3 years of an Aquila quake there is always another in the triangle between aquila, rieti and sulmona.. less force most probably .. and not near the last one.. the energy has been released there.. so theres a cheery fault..

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Old 29th July 2010, 07:52 AM
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I know there is no real malice in this seemingly anti buying here postings but what makes me feel quite cross about many of the views is the fact that most of them are wrong but.. but are actually true based on experience..

if that makes sense.. most people that buy here away from the sort of bolder sharks preying on less than aware people looking to purchase here do so with little to no major problems and are happy..

the problem if i can be Abruzzo specific seems to me to be the fact that Pescara airport opened and ryan air started flying.. so called ad related popular journalism then started publishing cheap property and a wonderful life style.. and at that time there was little choice of who to deal with if you did not speak Italian.. indeed records show that in fact they were not even licensed to operate as such and neither were they allowed to charge sales commission under the law here.. but they got away with it for a while.. and newspapers and TV kept talking them and the place up.. in fact aiding and abetting a pretty obvious scam operation.. ie a company non registered taking monies in cash without paying any tax.. etc etc ..with lots of backhanders to local comune officials to keep it all quite..

this was the model of Abruzzo house sales which then spawned a horrendous amount of copycat pretenders, many of them expat run or geometras using ex pats to sell onto foreign nationals.. mainly illegally with no records of their registration in the chamber of commerce and no P.IVA in site (VAT number) compulsory here

to me this is the background as to why Abruzzo has suffered more than most areas in regards to problematic sales ... because very less than knowledgeable and less than well meaning ex pats collaborating with dishonest locals out to make quick bucks... pretty ell took over the sales to all non Italians here in Abruzzo .. thanks mainly to forums and newspapers promoting people that had and still do not have any right to sell or mediate in property purchases here in Italy

very strict laws govern everything to do with sales and mediation .. so this talk of a rushed process leaves me stunned.. in fact in normal terms here a completed sale can take up to a year to conclude..its not rare.. contracts can be signed with offers conditional on terms being met..ie that you get a mortgage ..that the building passes a test.. that you sell your UK property before moving on..

title research before going to the notary.. if buying land and a property contacting neighboring farmers.. and getting them to give up their rights on the land you wish to buy all takes time and research.. even arranging the date of the final act often means co -ordinating appointments with notaries.. always busy, the sellers and all their relatives... translators, legal reps if used.. and the purchaser.. agreed dates often months away.. thats my working knowledge of a system which to secure non Italian consumer protection makes it against the law here for a non Italian speaker to be bound by any contract that is not in their language if they cannot be shown to fully comprehend italian.. that these contracts need to be registered and held as copies by the local chamber of commerce so that if they are presented differently to those registered they are not legal..

thats all tech stuff.. worse still is the fact that as prices rose around pescara people were persuaded into the sulmona aquila area to buy.. still going on.. with no knowledge of risk that buying here holds.. in fact denial and i know this is true by agencies for sure in sulmona that this is in fact a very active earthquake zone and that buildings there are at risk unless lots of money is spent... and if the building is at risk so are you.. or the continual sales of property close to the Bussi toxic waste area without fully informing people of the risks of the water from that area...

why is the province of l'Aquila the only area of Abruzzo with a major decline in population.. because they cannot cope with the expense of the buildings, do not want to continue accepting the risks.. if they do not.. cannot cope with the extremes of weather there.. cauldron hot or freezing cold.. so the decline continues even in modern times..beyond the historic mass emigration of post war italy..... without anyone else in Italy moving into replace them.. thats the thing.. foreign buyers make up a very small percentage of house sales here.. English account within that percentage as less than a quarter percent..

other fallacies i can confirm as not true is the comment about restrictions on private property sales to foreigners.. someone is pulling someones leg.. there cannot be under Italian law or even european that sort of restrictive policy... and its not true for Umbria or for Abruzzo.. there might well be cases where very historical buildings are kept within the state..but no general law of that sort is ever going to happen

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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 30th July 2010, 03:23 PM
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Abruzzo is a great place to holiday, but if you are going to live here you need to be aware the season is very short maybe only July & August. The rest of the year is very quiet.


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Old 30th July 2010, 03:30 PM
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Renee

i live near the city of Teramo and people live and do things here all year round.. i should think Pescara also is a lively city all year round

we have festivals all year a theatre, two cinemas a football team, not that good i will admit, but our basket ball team are in the top league and usually come near the top of that..

concerts on at the new stadium, restauarants and agriturismo open all year.. its strange i have never thought of Abruzzo as a seasonal region.. so am not actually sure what you mean... although if you are talking about some of the coastal towns i will agree although both giulianova and rosetto are pretty well established as non seasonal towns as they are both large

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