Tax for people living apart.

Go Back   Expat Forum For People Moving Overseas And Living Abroad > Europe > France Expat Forum for Expats Living in France

France Expat Forum for Expats Living in France Welcome to the France Expat forum. This is the place to meet like minded people who have made France their new home. This forum is ideal for those who have moved to France and those thinking about making France their new home.

Tax for people living apart.


Closed Thread
 
Subscribe to this Thread Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 30th July 2008, 11:16 AM
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 6
Rep Power: 0
Keoni is on a distinguished road

Red face Tax for people living apart.

My husband is working and living in the Middle East, as I have been for the last 6 years.
I have been staying in France for a few months and would like to become a permanent resident. Hubby is happy with this, he will be retiring here in a few years.I am retired so my only income will be a monthly allowance from my husband.
My question is. Will my husband be liable for tax if I stay here even though he lives and works abroad. I take it I will be taxed on my allowance which is fine.
Also may I confirm that I am able to stay for 6 months without being classed as resident.
Many thanks.

Quick reply to this message
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 30th July 2008, 12:12 PM
Bevdeforges's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: deepest, darkest Essonne
Posts: 48,346
Rep Power: 23397
Bevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond repute
10757 likes received
1579 likes given

Users Flag! Originally from usa. Users Flag! Expat in france.
Default

Hi, and welcome to the forum.

Unfortunately, nothing in France (or in taxation, for that matter) is quite that simple. First of all, there's your nationality to consider. I'm assuming you're either a Brit or have some EU nationality so that there is no visa issue to worry about.

In very general terms, living in France for 183 days involves a "presumption" that you are resident in France, and thus subject to all French taxes. With your husband working in the Middle East, this complicates matters, as France taxes by "foyer" which roughly means by family unit. There is simply no option for married people to file separately unless they are in the process of separating in preparation for a divorce.

I don't believe you can be taxed on your "allowance" as it is required in France for spouses to financially support each other. His paying you an allowance will probably be taken as evidence that he is "maintaining a home" in France which tends to classify him as resident in France and subjects all his worldwide income to French taxation. There is no one factor that predominates in determining someone's tax residence. If he regularly comes to visit you in France when he has time off to do so, that can also be taken as evidence that France is his "home base."

There is also the matter of your need for health insurance, which would normally be covered by your husband's cotisations (or your own if you work while in France).

You may need to talk to a professional tax advisor (an expert comptable or tax attorney) to make sure you consider all the implications of what you're trying to do.
Cheers,
Bev

Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 31st July 2008, 11:02 AM
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 6
Rep Power: 0
Keoni is on a distinguished road

Default Thanks

Than you bev for your quick reply. I assume the 183 days is per annum is it? or is it consecutive days with a short break in between as in other countries?

Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 31st July 2008, 11:09 AM
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 330
Rep Power: 0
giantpanda is on a distinguished road
1 likes received

Default

Hi!

There are different questions: This can depend on your marriage statute.

In the standard case, if the main residence is in France ( the French term is " centre d'intérêts du couple " with is very broad, and to which would normaly a pply to you ) , then declarable are the world income of the couple ( including the taxes paid elsewhere ).

but if you are officially seperated, or is you are married with a ruling equivalent of " séparation de biens ", and if both of you have officially separate " main residence ", then each can make a seperate income tax return.

You would then not benefit of 2 parts in France, but only one part.

Yours,

giantpanda

NB. For the cloassing of main residence, the 183 days clause is one of the possible qualification conditions, but, if you qualify for the one of the others, you would be a French fiscal resident ( eg. you work in France , even if it was just on internet, and if it was your main income).

See:

Impôt sur le revenu : notion de résidence fiscale


Last edited by giantpanda; 31st July 2008 at 11:13 AM.
Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 31st July 2008, 11:15 AM
Bevdeforges's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: deepest, darkest Essonne
Posts: 48,346
Rep Power: 23397
Bevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond repute
10757 likes received
1579 likes given

Users Flag! Originally from usa. Users Flag! Expat in france.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keoni View Post
Than you bev for your quick reply. I assume the 183 days is per annum is it? or is it consecutive days with a short break in between as in other countries?
It's definitely not consecutive days. Usually, it's 183 days in a tax year (i.e. calendar year in France) - but remember this isn't a hard and fast rule. It's just that if you spend that much time in the country, they will "presume" (a legal form of "assuming" ) you are resident unless you come up with some pretty darned good arguments to the contrary.

There are lots of other factors they can and do take into account - whether you make the 183 day cutoff or not. For your husband, a key factor is where his family (i.e. wife and kids) are living while he is working. Under French law, spouses basically have to maintain a home in common, so if you're resident in France, he'll be "presumed" to be, too.
Cheers,
Bev

Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 31st July 2008, 11:17 AM
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 330
Rep Power: 0
giantpanda is on a distinguished road
1 likes received

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keoni View Post
My husband is working and living in the Middle East, as I have been for the last 6 years.
I have been staying in France for a few months and would like to become a permanent resident. Hubby is happy with this, he will be retiring here in a few years.I am retired so my only income will be a monthly allowance from my husband.
My question is. Will my husband be liable for tax if I stay here even though he lives and works abroad. I take it I will be taxed on my allowance which is fine.
Also may I confirm that I am able to stay for 6 months without being classed as resident.
Many thanks.
Hi!

Other question:

If you are a French fizcal resident, then you would have to qualify for the French Health Insurance.

If you are an EC citizen, then you would need an E121 ( if you have a GB State pension ) or if you have worked, an E106, which is only valid 2 years.

If you do not have the link to the E121 after that, you would have to present a private Health Insurance ( equivalent to the French State Insurance ) which can cost a minimum of Euro 3500 per year, if you are in good health.

If you are not an EC national, then matters get verymuch more complicated fpr coming to France to live permantly.

Yours,

giantpanda

Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 31st July 2008, 11:24 AM
Bevdeforges's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: deepest, darkest Essonne
Posts: 48,346
Rep Power: 23397
Bevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond repute
10757 likes received
1579 likes given

Users Flag! Originally from usa. Users Flag! Expat in france.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by giantpanda View Post
but if you are officially seperated, or is you are married with a ruling equivalent of " séparation de biens ", and if both of you have officially separate " main residence ", then each can make a seperate income tax return.
Be a bit careful with this. Couples married under a statute of "séparation de biens" do not normally have the right to file separate income tax returns, nor can they file separately for the French wealth tax (ISF).
Cheers,
Bev

Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 31st July 2008, 11:26 AM
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 6
Rep Power: 0
Keoni is on a distinguished road

Default

Many thanks for your input, You have both given me plenty to think about.

Complicated isn't it?

Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 31st July 2008, 02:53 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 330
Rep Power: 0
giantpanda is on a distinguished road
1 likes received

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevdeforges View Post
Be a bit careful with this. Couples married under a statute of "séparation de biens" do not normally have the right to file separate income tax returns, nor can they file separately for the French wealth tax (ISF).
Cheers,
Bev
Hi!

I did specify if, they had distinct " main résidence " - see text;

4. Les époux font l'objet d'impositions distinctes :

a. Lorsqu'ils sont séparés de biens et ne vivent pas sous le même toit ;

b. Lorsqu'étant en instance de séparation de corps ou de divorce, ils ont été autorisés à avoir des résidences séparées ;

c. Lorsqu'en cas d'abandon du domicile conjugal par l'un ou l'autre des époux, chacun dispose de revenus distincts.


Yours,

pomhorn

Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 31st July 2008, 03:02 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 6
Rep Power: 0
Keoni is on a distinguished road

Default

C'est complique, oui?

Merci beaucoup.

Quick reply to this message
Closed Thread


Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Expat Forum For People Moving Overseas And Living Abroad forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Location
Where you live
Expat From Country
Please select the country you originate from. This will appear as a flag when you make posts on the site.
Expat To Country
Please select the country you have either moved to or want to relocate to. This will be presented on the site when you make posts.

Log-in


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help needed from people living in athens itsonlyme Greece Expat Forum for Expats Living in Greece 4 21st August 2011 10:53 PM
interviews of people living in Spain Pesky Wesky Spain Expat Forum for Expats Living in Spain 0 19th October 2009 09:26 AM
People for living in france survey living in france Europe Marketplace 0 29th October 2008 05:53 PM

FORUM PARTNERS

ExpatForum.com is owned and operated by VerticalScope Inc.

Retiring Overseas Guides | Moving Overseas Guides | Cost of Living | Health Care Guides


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.