Hi everyone!
I'm new to this forum, and am looking for ways I can move my family to Provence.
So I am looking for work in the Alpes Maritimes area.
I am a sound engineer by trade but have done house renovations and general property maintenance.
I am looking for a place to rent or preferably be a guardian.
If there is anyone out there who might have some pointers or the best ways of going about this, it would be great to hear from you.
I have a CV I can send anyone interested.
Kind regards
Giles
I've moved this over to the France section to see if maybe we can get a few more responses, especially from folks already living in France.
You've got the advantage of being from the UK, so no visa issues. Your best shot at finding a job in Provence is to simply go over there (on an exploratory visit) and start searching in person. Most jobs in France are found through "a friend of a friend who knows someone" so being on site really is important.
The big question, however, is "how's your French?" Finding a job in France is tough just about any time, but if you don't speak the language at least passably well, you're toast. Some may disagree with me, but IMO there simply isn't enough casual work available through the anglophone expat community to make a go of it. (Remember, much of the expat community in France is retired and having to cope with a rather poor sterling to euro exchange at the moment.)
Cheers,
Bev
Thanks Bev,
My French is coming along, but by no means fluent as yet.
Thanks for moving the thread to a more viewable area.
I am going to Carcassonne, to see a friend, in the next couple of weeks for a look around. Not he area I really want to live in, but there are a couple of good sized studios in the area, so you never know
Thanks again
Giles
My suggestion to anyone moving to France. Is why bother with learning a new language and not earning money and not having any friend other than people from your country for ten years while you adapt. WHY? If it is about wanting a change move to Canada or Austrailia where you adaptation would be easier and the economy is better. Or better yet become a nurse and immigrate using your nursing lisence as they take english nurses who can pass the american nursing test. Which you almost have to be a native english speaker to pass.
Why France where you will face financial ruin if you do not speak french very well and have a big nest egg. Why do it? The only english or americans or foriegners who make it here already have a GOOD job lined up or are living on money from their home countries. Otherwise you are not better off than some person off the boat from the Congo. To be honest. Sorry to be so blunt. If you want a change look seriously at findign a place that you could make a good start financially. The cheese and classic clothes are not worth immigrating over. C. Nuttee
CN has a point! A friend of a friend wanted to try French living a couple of years back. I let him use my place free of charge while I was away for a year, free heating and electricity, lent him a car, even paid him to do some odd jobs now and again. He was no slouch - hgv/forklift/digger licences, market gardener, knew his way around the plumbing, general DIY... but at the end of the year he ended up back in the UK, his tail between his legs.
Yes, he picked up a little French, occasionally found work on the black, pruning olive trees, fruit picking etc for the French, a bit of building work for the expats... But the French simply exploited him, paying a pittance in return for his efforts, and the expats in the area just hadn't the money to keep him busy.
After he left I ended up having to settle some unpaid dental/doctors etc bills around town too
<<<Some may disagree with me, but IMO there simply isn't enough casual work available through the anglophone expat community to make a go of it. (Remember, much of the expat community in France is retired and having to cope with a rather poor sterling to euro exchange at the moment.)>>>
Agree totally.
<<<Why France where you will face financial ruin if you do not speak french very well and have a big nest egg. Why do it? The only english or americans or foriegners who make it here already have a GOOD job lined up or are living on money from their home countries. Otherwise you are not better off than some person off the boat from the Congo. To be honest. Sorry to be so blunt. If you want a change look seriously at findign a place that you could make a good start financially.>>>>
Agree totally, thanks for the bluntness, a few more folk need to be getting blunt over these issues in here or someone is going to upsticks 'in the hope' of making a new life and they are going to be making the biggest mistake of their lives.
To be even blunter, in the present economic climate, there are already too many brits here for (literally) their own good, and when the conditions improve, there'll still be too many.......
minesthechevy and frogblogger, I have lived in France for four years and at first had that romanticised perspective of France. I am an American married to a French man and have a three year old son. I felt guilty for telling the truth of what immigrating at an older age means. Basically it is like having university or technical degrees from Poland or China. They don't mean very much in France. Teaching english is very poorly paid and hard work. Immigrating to a new country for other than very serious reasons is plain crazy. For me I married a French man and am committed to living in this country. I would never move to a foriegn language country without a good job or a very serious social connection like a marriage or a child or a parent. Otherwise I can not imagine a good reason to ruin myself financially. There is very little work for older foriegn people and very little opprotunity in the system. Yes France is a nice place to live and the social services are okay. This does not make up for leaving any real way of earning a living behind for the rest of your life. Like I said, the people that do best here have an income from their home country or they have a good job lined up in France in advance. These jobs are always temporary and not longterm by the way as France has work rules for expats that have limits for people coming into the country just to work. I am really sorry to be so serious because France is a nice place to live.
Lastly, if you like France just rent a vacation house in the area you like for a month every summer and get it out of your system and look into immigrating to an english speaking economy. C. Nuttee
Like I said, the people that do best here have an income from their home country or they have a good job lined up in France in advance. These jobs are always temporary and not longterm by the way as France has work rules for expats that have limits for people coming into the country just to work.
Not entirely accurate, remember EU citizens have the same residency and employment rights in the private sector as the French, in theory. In practice though, depending on the type of employment, fluent French is a must in most cases.
(In passing, the French - even if they appear protectionist in some respects - have got absolutely nothing on the Thais! Work permits are like gold dust in Thailand, and if you want to set up a business, even if you can fight your way through the red tape, you have to employ a minimum of 4 or 5 Thais for every non-Thai... just thought I would mention this to put things into perspective...)
Hi c. nuttee,
Boy, are we ever cut from the same cloth! By the time I had been here in France only 4 years, I flat out hated the place - for pretty much all the reasons you cite. I'm also married to a French man, though both his kids were grown and out of the house by the time I moved in. (Thank goodness!)
After seven years of misery (a certain amount of it self-inflicted, I must admit) I finally decided to hunker down and find my niche here. It isn't easy, and I'm reconciled to the idea that I'll always be a foreigner here (even though I have finally taken French nationality), but all in all, and considering the alternatives, I'm happy to be living here at long last.
There are certain issues and problems that come up precisely because we're married to someone French. I sometimes think that American couples who move here together have certain advantages, if only because they can rant and rave about the French to their partner and get a certain level of sympathy.
In the end, it all comes down to why someone wants to come live in France (or anywhere else) and what they are looking to get out of the situation. France is the way France is, and it isn't going to change because you or me or any other foreigner thinks it ought to. Then again, the US never changed to suit my preferences either. In the final analysis, it's probably us that have to make the changes if we want to be happy no matter where we are.
Cheers,
Bev
Frogblogger, I realized after writing I meant to say that I was referring to American expat contracts that are time limited after I wrote that. As for the english expats on work contract I have met here. Mostly young english mothers in a playgroup I have attended with my three year old son for english speakers. They all seem to be desperate to get out of France and back to England as soon as their husbands work contracts are over. So although English expats can stay longer I think because of the closeness of England to France makes if very difficult for english expats to really commit to the place who have families. That is just my opinion. Yes you are right that it is different for english eu people than americans. The american expat work permits are for maximum five years and they literally kick you out of the country even if you are working for international agencies. I know it is different if you are EU but than different issues come into play.
Hi Bev, I am here for the duration and my husband has two kids who live with his ex. young adults. I live in a suburb of Paris.
Oh, by the way there are three ways for an american to live in France legall, student is the easiest and most expensive as you are only able to work half time and have to pay your studies, the time limited work permit and of course marrying a french person.
Oh, by the way there are three ways for an american to live in France legall, student is the easiest and most expensive as you are only able to work half time and have to pay your studies, the time limited work permit and of course marrying a french person.
A time-limited work permit can become a long-term carte de residente - one friend of mine came over here 15 years ago with her (American) husband and they're still here, a few jobs later, and now on resident cards.
It's also possible for Americans to come here as retirees on non-working visas - though they aren't easy to get. Many of the members of AARO (an American expat club based in Paris) are long-time retirees, and they have to renew their cartes de séjour every year. It also helps to have a comfortable pension coming in.
Cheers,
Bev
Bev, the immigration rules have changed drastically in France, partially in response
the the changes in the world since 2000. Most of the changes happened around 2004, which sounds like after you went through the carte de sejour process.
In the past, especially ten or more years ago, it was much easier for people to ride through to residents cards on work permits but not anymore. It was also easier in the USA until recently. Now the standard in France is 5 year work permit for americans. Now, to receive a ten year carte de sejour or green card one must live 10 consecutive years in france to be eligible for residents cards. This keeps children of americans ineligible for carte de sejours also.
Of course if you are rich and just have an appartment in Paris and live there three months a year like a friend of mine from NM does, no one will bother you. If you use any public services of any kind, believe me they check all documentation. They are obligated to now. I have a good friend who is a lawyer in the Haute Savoir region and they squeaked by for years with their american kids in the french public schools with no documentation during the 80's. That would be impossible now. The same in the USA for undocumented kids, they used to let them slide, they don't anymore.
And of course there are always exceptions if you have all the money in the world to hire a special immigration lawyer, which I have heard of one sitaution where a girl's father was an immigration lawyer in new york and he finagled a carte de sejour for his daughter but that seemed exceptional.
I know it used to be easier, believe me my good friend worked at the OECD as a coal economist and after five years his patootie was on that plane outta Paris with the new rules.
Those working for the OECD have never needed a visa nor a carte de séjour. The five year limit on Americans relates to a treaty provision whereby an American on "transfer" can avoid paying into the French sécu system for five years, provided they are kept on the US social security system and US based benefits. There was lots of abuse of that provision when I first got here and the French have understandably cracked down on these things.
But, if you can get a "local payroll" job with a company here in France (not necessarily a French company) - a big "if" I admit these days - you can extend your time here after a certain number of standard renewals of your carte de séjour. The time required varies from préfecture to préfecture. (One of the little joys of living in France.) But if you learn to play the game sometimes things actually work out in your favor.
Cheers,
Bev
I should say if you want to work in France there are three ways. As a student which is expensive to pay for your studies, on a work visa or married to a French person. Also this is for americans. So retirees paying for everything from their home countries are not included in this but a good point.
OECD loves loves American people with french carte de sejours because of the work limits for americans. I know a lot of people over there and Larry's little butt was kicked out because of it. Although you seem to think differently all the rules changed and work limits are in place.
Bev, before I got to bed, because of the new scarey times in 2000 and the new laws in 2004, they don't let people through the prefectures anymore. It is a serious crime because of terrorism. So the five year limit is in place and no one is allowed to extend it unless by a very special reason. This decison is not made by the local police anymore. That era is long gone in France. It seems like you missed that point by going through the process in 2002.
Paris works a little differently than most other parts of France. The prefectures have nothing to do with the police (except in Paris). And yes, you do have to work around or through however your local préfecture functions. As they say back home, "your mileage may vary." In some ways, that's actually one of the best things about France and the whole bureaucratic nightmare.
Cheers,
Bev
Oh I am getting kinda nitpicky. Although I love the human touch in France. I think there is a larger hierarchical movement from the top-down that immigration rules are more strict. Especially because of the EU and the changes since 2000 in the USA. I know you might be able to get some functionaire to approve something but that total blasse attitude outside of Paris is from another time. I don't think it exists in the USA or France anymore.
France has always been highly centralized - and orders do come down from on high. Interpretation can vary, however from prefecture to prefecture. Read through some of the threads here and you'll see some folks have managed to get cds or visas that you or I could never dream of getting through our respective prefectures.
Things tightened up considerably in the US after 2001 - but they were pretty uptight to begin with.
The rules here in France have changed, but the way the fonctionnaires function hasn't. It's not a matter of being blassé about things - it's a matter of understanding and working the system. There are ways to do it and ways not to do it.
Cheers,
Bev
Bev, yes you can find the right functionaire to possible get some paperwork through but they don't give carte de sejours out anymore that easily. The conditions are different now. I know the era you are speaking of and it is really passed because of the changes in the world after 2000 and the consolidation of the EU. I am not missing your point though. I have had some really great experiences in the system because of the human touch.
I am not talking about the human touch. (Is there such a thing in the French system? Could have fooled me...)
Since June 1st of this year, most newcomers to France don't get a carte de séjour for their first year in France. They seem to be implementing a new registration system through the renamed OFII. I strongly suspect that they may start extending this after the initial year, but I haven't seen anything in print to indicate this.
I have no idea what you're referring to with "changes in the world after 2000" - immigration restrictions in France related to the WTC attacks were fairly minimal. Recent changes to the law relate more to the general European concern over levels of immigration from Muslim countries and cultures, though it's couched in very neutral terms. They have eliminated the "waiting period" between when someone marries a French national and when they can legally work - and that is thanks to the EU influence, as is the automatic admission of the non-EU spouse of an EU national.
Maybe we should come at this issue from a different angle. If you are coming to France to work (from the US or anywhere else outside the EU), you pretty much have to have a solid job offer first so your employer can sponsor you - but for the first few years at least, your ability to remain in France is tied to your job and employer. (The principle of "you dance with the one who brought you to the party.") The main exception to this is if you have some right of residence in France due to family ties - usually a spouse or parent.
As a student, you are assumed to be in France to study. You have a limited right to work, but it is not your purpose in being in France. I would not advise anyone who wants to work in France to come over on a student visa unless it is to train in a particular discipline here, with the understanding that they may well have to return home to apply for a proper work visa before they can start their career.
You don't need a visa to work at certain international organizations, considered part of the international civil service, largely because these organizations have their own independent benefits system. For lower level jobs, these organizations generally only hire local residents so they aren't really an option for getting into the country at all. Upper level jobs are highly competitive, but in essence this still falls into the category of "you have to have a job before you come to live in France" anyhow. In France, the only two organizations that meet this criteria are the OECD and UNESCO, both in Paris.
Cheers,
Bev
Bev, Many of the people at the Embassies and International Agencies are french and most of the new hires are people who are already in France and can legally work in France however that is. Everyone at the OECD has valid work permission in France. There is a huge highly sophisticated office dedictated to it. There favorite new hires are Americans who are married to french people because they are often the only ones able to work in France. Otherwise like my friend Larry they had to get him a work Visa to work at the OECD. I soppose if you have diplomatic status, I don't know anything about that, but most workers for these agencies, UNESCO, the embassies, follow the work rules of their host country.
And the big changes in 2000 regarding immigration are for a variety of reasons of course. I do think some of it was a reaction to the changes in the USA after 2000.
Just as a matter of information, the US Embassy (for example) long had a policy of hiring only local nationals for any but diplomatic posts. That changed a few years back, when they announced they would consider Americans already living legally and with work authorization in France.
As I said, the only two agencies that fall under the "no work permit needed" rule are the OECD and UNESCO - though the agencies generally have a policy of hiring locals already established for support positions. Generally it's only the UN related agencies that can hire in this manner - and it's a matter of international treaty. UN agencies are not subject to local labor law. And yes, I worked for a couple months at the OECD when I was illegal here.
Cheers,
Bev
GTSE, My first degree is in painting and when I was in the USA I studied Spanish and went for a semester in Valencia Spain during University. I just fell in love with Europe. So coming to France I had a lot of built of love going on for europe already. I understand your interest and you could conceivably make it work.
For me, seriously because the economy is so bad, and europe is a very slow economy in general even under the best of circumstance. With any money I had saved to move to France, I would take my entire family on a fabulous seaside vacation in April or October, sweaters, llow rates something off season. I would rent a beautiful villa for a month and take advantage of the wonderful French habbits and lifestyle.
Then I would go home and just try and make the best of my old life back home.
Then every year when the beauty of europe called I would take my family on
yet another glorious vacation. This time in the mountains of France. Or maybe in the north in a dark and gloomy country manor. With lots of damp and mold.
(use your savings on some fabulous vacations with your family, not sickenly spending all your money to stay in a country where you might be unemployable, enjoy that money.)
Then if you still love the place after several years of contemplation and just can not get it our of your system. By all means after your french is in very very good shape. And perhaps having a normal job lined up with a contract signed. I would risk taking my family over.
So continue the visits, continue taking french classes and watching french movies and taking vacations in France. Keep looking for a steady job in France. And as the economy improves in the next years and your french improves and your understanding of the country increases. Maybe in five years move to France.
Definately not on a meager savings in this terrible economy with limited french.
Well, it looks like we've scared off the original poster with our little jag off topic.
Went back to the post that started all this and noticed that it's from a Brit, which means the whole issue of visas and work permits is extraneous to his concerns.
The matter of finding a job with limited French is probably more relevant, but it sounds like GTSE is doing the right thing by making a visit and doing some on the ground scouting of possibilities. Sometimes that's the only way to work out for yourself whether you can make the big move or not.
Cheers,
Bev
Hi GTSE,
I moved to France a year ago for work. Some may consider it a bit of a gung-ho aproach but I had never even thought of moving to France until I saw the job advertised in the Farmers Weekly in the UK and since I was looking for a new job, thought sod it and applied. 6 months later I packed my life into a transit van and drove over here! I work in the export office of an agricultural machinery manufacture and most people I deal and work with speak English. My French was non-existant when I moved here and a year on is not much better - despite regular lessons and a 2 week intensive course I am still struggling horrendously. I don't think it would have been possible for me to have found work here by simply moving and the searching, but as I say, France was never a country I had given any consideration to moving to.
On the whole people are pretty good at trying to communicate with me in my pigin French for the day to day stuff, but building any sort of social life has proven nigh on impossible. It is hard work for people to interact with someone in a language they don't speak well and people soon grow weary of you not understanding what they are saying. Think how you would feel if a non-English speaking person moved into the house next door to you, would you feel you wanted to try an interact with them on a regular basis in your own time when you just want to relax and enjoy easy conversation? I only mention this because I think it would be very depressing to move to a country with little command of the language and be trying to build a life from scratch not even having a job lined up.
The French way of life is very different to that in the UK and it can be immensely frustrating to find that all the shops and banks close at lunchtime (not so much in the cities, but in the small towns and villages) so you can't just nip out of the office in your lunch hour to pay in a cheque or go to the post office! There are plus sides to this, such as you would never be expected to simply have a sandwich at your desk and carry in working like I used to in my old job. I still do this when I'm busy, but it's the exception rather than the norm!!! I have found anything that involves authorities to be a nightmare in France, I'm currently trying to sort out health care and where as in the UK, this can be done on line here it seems that I have to visit an office in person, and the office is not open at weekends so I will have to take a day off work to go. Things like buying a mobile phone took me two attempts as even for a pay as you go one, you need to take a passport - but no-one tells you that until you try and buy a mobile without one!
I'll be honest, there is hardly a week goes by that I don't question my decision to move here, and if it wasn't for the fact that I have a job I enjoy so much and that I work with great people and travel a lot with work I think I would have packed my bags and gone home months ago. It's not an easy move if you don't speak the language and it's not an easy language to learn (although some people are better at these things than others) - but at least the French admit their language is complicated and so will forgive you your errors most of the time!
Having said all this, it's a hell of a challenge and if life was easy it would soon get boring! Good luck with whatever you decide and if you need any more help or information feel free to PM me and I'll see what I can do.
Regards
PJ
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