Working two jobs, one physically in France, the other remotely for a US org?

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Working two jobs, one physically in France, the other remotely for a US org?


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Old 1st August 2020, 12:05 AM
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Default Working two jobs, one physically in France, the other remotely for a US org?

Hi everyone,

I'll be working as a lecteur d'anglais at a university in France and am wondering if I'd also be able to work remotely for an organization based in the U.S. The job in France requires me to work 10 hours per week, while the job in the U.S. would be full-time and salaried. I'd be working both jobs for a year only.

I have a number of personal and professional reasons for wanting to take both jobs. That said, I realize that this situation could be legally problematic, especially with regard to labor and tax laws. I've been trying to gather as much information as I can on the web but can't seem to find anything that addresses my particular predicament.

My optimistic take is that, if the organization in the U.S. sends me to France on a "short-term assignment," I'll be able to legally work both jobs. I'm more confused about how taxes would work (my understanding is that I'd have to report foreign income on both my American and my French tax forms), but frankly that's less of a concern for me at the moment. I'd just like to know if working both jobs would even be possible.

Apologies if anything is unclear or vague! Happy to provide clarification and answer questions.

Many thanks in advance for your input--

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Old 1st August 2020, 06:47 AM
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French rules relating to cumul d'emploi are here https://www.service-public.fr/partic...osdroits/F1945
No idea about the US tax situation, but as you say the first thing to check is that you wouldn't be in contravention of French labour law.

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Old 1st August 2020, 07:14 AM
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There is a reasonable chance that you could work both jobs - but do check the site ET mentioned. Plus, it will depend on what sort of visa you have. If the employer in France is providing your visa it could be a bit touchier than if you're here on a "family" type of visa that allows you to work with few restrictions.

The one "catch" will be that you really should be declaring and paying into the cotisation system here on both jobs - since you will be working in France (i.e. the "butt rule" - you are working in the country where your butt is located while you're doing the work). This means that you should not be paying for US benefits and payroll taxes, nor having US taxes (or state taxes) withheld from your US salary.

If your employer in the US is willing, they can enroll with URSSAF as a foreign employer with no French presence and just pay you like a French employee - i.e. withholding French cotisations and taxes and remitting them here in France. Most US employers don't like to do this because the French employer's portion of the payroll taxes is considerably higher than in the US.

There is also the option to work as an "independent" - where you register a business entity here in France and then bill your US "employer" (i.e. customer) for your services and then pay your own taxes and withholdings.

US tax wise, both jobs qualify you to take the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion on your US taxes. You would file a form 2555 to "exclude" your foreign earned income (i.e. salary income only). Or you can use the Foreign Tax Credit to take a credit for the income tax that you pay in France. Take a good, hard look at the FTC forms (1116) before you decide, though. They are not the easiest forms to figure out - and you may need to file multiple forms for various types of income and apportion your French income taxes appropriately.

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Old 1st August 2020, 10:50 PM
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Thank you both for your responses! @Bev, I have the visa travailleur temporaire ... I've heard that this precludes you from working a second job, but I can't find any official documents attesting to that. Do you know anything about this?

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Old 2nd August 2020, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ay257 View Post
Thank you both for your responses! @Bev, I have the visa travailleur temporaire ... I've heard that this precludes you from working a second job, but I can't find any official documents attesting to that. Do you know anything about this?
If you're only going to be in France for a year or so for the job that got you the visa, you will probably be able to get away with working both jobs. However, I don't believe it's actually "permitted" to work your main job like you're thinking of doing. The key thing is going to be that you'll wind up paying US payroll taxes (SS, health and whatever else coverage) if you're simply on the US payroll as a regular employee. Also, will you be able to give your best effort to two jobs like that? It seems unlikely that a 10 hour a week job would result in a visa like that - I suspect there are other "behind the scenes" responsibilities that will take away from managing to hold down a "full time" job on the side.

Technically, you can still take the FEIE (or the FTC) on your US returns for both jobs but it does leave you exposed for how you should be reporting your total income for French tax purposes. Think this one through carefully - especially in terms of your future plans (will you be returning to the US? would you want to return to France at some later date? etc. etc.)

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Old 3rd August 2020, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevdeforges View Post
The one "catch" will be that you really should be declaring and paying into the cotisation system here on both jobs - since you will be working in France (i.e. the "butt rule" - you are working in the country where your butt is located while you're doing the work). This means that you should not be paying for US benefits and payroll taxes, nor having US taxes (or state taxes) withheld from your US salary.
There is a workaround for this: If a US employer sends someone to work in France for five years or less, the employee can continue to pay into the US social security system instead of the French system. In order to do this, you need to apply for a "certificate of coverage." It's a simple process -- I did it when I first arrived in France and was working remotely for my US employer. You can find information about the process here:
https://www.ssa.gov/international/Ag...ts/france.html

Note that the certificate of coverage applies only to social charges. It does not exempt you from paying French income taxes on income you earn in France (even if that income is paid by a US employer).

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Old 3rd August 2020, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by newyorkerinparis View Post
There is a workaround for this: If a US employer sends someone to work in France for five years or less, the employee can continue to pay into the US social security system instead of the French system. In order to do this, you need to apply for a "certificate of coverage." It's a simple process -- I did it when I first arrived in France and was working remotely for my US employer. You can find information about the process here:
https://www.ssa.gov/international/Ag...ts/france.html

Note that the certificate of coverage applies only to social charges. It does not exempt you from paying French income taxes on income you earn in France (even if that income is paid by a US employer).
That sounds potentially the solution but you should maybe check if you can simultaneously have one employer paying into the US social security and one employer paying into French scu.
I initially came to France with my self employment covered by a "workers S1" from the UK which sounds very like the US certificate of coverage, but I found out that the SI would be automatically invalidated if I took any salaried work in France. However that may be because social security systems within the EU are coordinated and the rule is you only belong to one soc sec system at any one time. This may not apply to the US.

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Old Yesterday, 07:05 PM
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It sounds like the arrangement would be too complicated in a lot of respects, so I think I’ll just have to decide on one job or the other. Guess you can’t always have the best of both worlds!

But all this information is useful for future reference, so thank you all for your responses!

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