Home sale values and pricing - Page 3

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Home sale values and pricing - Page 3


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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 17th May 2020, 07:42 PM
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Not sure if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but one way of estimating whether or not the asking price is too high is to use the database that shows all the “Valeur Foncière” values for sales for the last 5 years

https://app.dvf.etalab.gouv.fr/

Now as far as I can tell, these values are what goes into the Tax Foncière calculations so will exclude any fee paid to an agent , but they will give you a good place to start your negotiations.
Just be aware that the "valeur foncière" is not a sales value, but rather a rental value based on the usable square meters of space in the dwelling, adjusted for certain "amenities." I'm not sure how useful the valeur foncière would be in estimating how much your should pay for a property.

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Old 18th May 2020, 08:13 AM
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Hi Bev, I am sure you are correct in a general use of the term, but this particular database tracks the “prix "net vendeur", c'est-à-dire ne comprenant ni frais d'agence immobilière, ni frais de notaire”, so whilst it is not the full sales price, it can certainly help with an understanding of the real market prices. Cheers

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Old 18th May 2020, 08:34 AM
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Hi Bev, I am sure you are correct in a general use of the term, but this particular database tracks the “prix "net vendeur", c'est-à-dire ne comprenant ni frais d'agence immobilière, ni frais de notaire”, so whilst it is not the full sales price, it can certainly help with an understanding of the real market prices. Cheers
OK - I wasn't aware that this information was publicly available here. The only caution I'd give then is to realize that "property values" don't have the same standing in France as they do in many of the anglophone countries. I guess it's a function of the property laws or something.

But the value assigned to a property - for ISF (or whatever the new "real estate property" tax is called) or for estate purposes may or may not hinge on the last sale price or "comparable" sales prices for other properties in the area (as they do in the US, for example).

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Old 18th May 2020, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by cad0 View Post
Not sure if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but one way of estimating whether or not the asking price is too high is to use the database that shows all the “Valeur Foncière” values for sales for the last 5 years

https://app.dvf.etalab.gouv.fr/

Now as far as I can tell, these values are what goes into the Tax Foncière calculations so will exclude any fee paid to an agent , but they will give you a good place to start your negotiations.

What an interesting site .. for an established house.
But I feel the snag I mentioned before still persists .. if the present owner had made changes and not informed the tax people .. then these notifiable changes would only come to light when the house is sold. And they could be the kind of change that makes a difference to the selling price.

Regretfully for our coastal area it is out of date for newer builds .. I suppose the gouv.fr site can only be as up to date as the info it receives.


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Old 1st June 2020, 09:34 AM
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Because there is no such thing as a shared listing service in France. there is no one agent who can show you everything. The seller is free to list with multiple agencies. But, only those agencies with a listing will be able to sell it.
I was under the impression that Leboncoin was the French equivalent of Rightmove in UK - all the agents use it. Your comment indicates that this is not the case. Can you confirm that, please?

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Old 1st June 2020, 09:48 AM
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I was under the impression that Leboncoin was the French equivalent of Rightmove in UK - all the agents use it. Your comment indicates that this is not the case. Can you confirm that, please?
leboncoin is simply an online channel for selling goods and services. Much like eBay. I suppose real estate agents are free to place and look at listings and try to find a buyer and somehow get a commission. But, honestly I have no idea how that would work. In any case, it makes no difference because in France there is no such thing as exclusive listings. A seller can list with as few or as many agents as they wish, and can continue to try to sell the house on their own even after it is listed.

I cannot comment as to any similarity with Rightmove as I am unfamiliar with that service.

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Old 1st June 2020, 10:13 AM
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I cannot comment as to any similarity with Rightmove as I am unfamiliar with that service.
Rightmove is akin to the MLS in the states

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Old 1st June 2020, 11:26 AM
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leboncoin is simply an online channel for selling goods and services. Much like eBay. I suppose real estate agents are free to place and look at listings and try to find a buyer and somehow get a commission. But, honestly I have no idea how that would work. In any case, it makes no difference because in France there is no such thing as exclusive listings. A seller can list with as few or as many agents as they wish, and can continue to try to sell the house on their own even after it is listed.

I cannot comment as to any similarity with Rightmove as I am unfamiliar with that service.
In France you can indeed list your property for sale with an estate agent on the basis of an exclusive contract. Of course, you can also list with multiple agents immediately or once the exclusive contract expires and at the same time advertise the property yourself, or you can choose not to list with an agent at all and advertise it privately (on leboncoin, or pap.fr etc.)

!when estate agents list properties on leboncoin they do so as businesses, whereas owners do so as particuliers and it is possible when browsing to select only those properties listed by particuliers.

The problem arises when you buy a property either through an agent or direct from the owner and another agent has already shown it to you because the other agent can then claim commission.

I guess the real difference in France (AFAIK), is that if you list your property exclusively with an agent, that agent does not then actively encourage other agents to sell the property (and share the commission), and not all/many agents are keen to try to work with other agencies that have exclusive listings (the reasons for that are many).

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Old 1st June 2020, 11:41 AM
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In France you can indeed list your property for sale with an estate agent on the basis of an exclusive contract. ...
My point was that there is no such thing as an exclusive contract. The contract itself cannot require exclusivity. If a seller wishes to only, i.e. exclusively, list with one agent, that is their choice. However, in actual fact no listing in a France is ever truly exclusive, even when only one agency has the listing. This is because the owner always maintains the right to sell on their own.

This in contrast with a country like the US where an agency can be the sole seller of a property. In such cases, even if the seller arranges a private sale, they are still obliged to pay the commission to the agency.


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Old 1st June 2020, 11:52 AM
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My point was that there is no such thing as an exclusive contract. The contract itself cannot require exclusivity. If a seller wishes to only, i.e. exclusively, list with one agent, that is their choice. But, it cannot be required.
It's possible to use an exclusive contract for listing you property here - but generally such contracts are limited to a fixed period, like a couple of months. During that time, if you sell your property by any means, the agent with the exclusive contract must be paid their fee, no matter who actually showed the buyer the property.

And, if the agent with whom you have the exclusive contract brings you a buyer willing to pay the asking price, you must sell to them. (I had friends who thought they had someone willing to buy the house for something less than the asking price, but the agent brought in a buyer willing to pay the full asking price and they had to sell to that person.)

I think the real issue is that there is no "universal" agreement on fee splitting, so that if an agent can get an exclusive contract to sell your place, they get their full fee as long as the place sells during that exclusive period. If someone else showed them the place, that agent will expect their full fee, too, from the buyer. So, best to avoid the possibility of getting hit for double agent fees.

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