Another question, moving to France before or after Brexit

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Another question, moving to France before or after Brexit


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Old 10th July 2019, 08:54 PM
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Default Another question, moving to France before or after Brexit

This is my first message on this great forum for a while. Our dream of living in France goes on, we are now somewhat closer, having left the US, and now in UK, next stop France, hopefully. If my questions have been covered, perhaps you can point me in the right direction. I'm afraid it's another question about moving to France before Brexit.

I am a British Citizen and my Husband a US Citizen now with ILR for UK. My employer has said that they will allow me to remain employed with them if I move to France to live. If this is the case, and I/we move to France, will my Husband be eligible to join me? I know the answer is yes if we move before Brexit, but what about after Brexit if there is a no deal? Would my contract of employment make it easier?

I've heard that as long as you are legally resident in France before Brexit, you will be able to stay in France after Brexit. What is the definition of being legally resident?

Does anyone have any experience of renting in France for perhaps 1-2 years, is there anything I should be aware of?

Thank you so much in advance.

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Old 10th July 2019, 10:21 PM
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Welcome back to the forum.
I think the first thing to say is, that nobody knows what will happen. It will depend what the exit arrangements are. France has made provisional plans but of course reciprocity comes into it so until the UK commits itself to one course of action or another, nothing can be finalised.

However, it's not very clear exactly what you mean by
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Originally Posted by milliesmith View Post
My employer has said that they will allow me to remain employed with them if I move to France to live.
- on what basis will you be employed? Whatever the final scenario, the eventual answers will likely be different depending on whether you're a cross-border worker/frontalier (ie you live in one EU country and commute to work in another EU country on a regular basis, and you continue paying NICs and income tax in the UK) or whether you're a posted worker (ie you don't commute back to the UK to work, HMRC issues you with a portable health document, you continue paying NICs in the UK, and your employer declares you to France as a UK based employee posted to work in France for a fixed period) or whether you're a resident worker (ie your employer declares you to URSSAF as an employee resident in France, and you and your employer pay social contributions to France).
Broadly speaking, resident workers who were established in France before Brexit should be on safe ground as regards residence rights; it's likely that if they're already working in France, they will automatically be given the continued right to work here. Posted workers do not accrue residence rights in the host country in any case because legally they are classed as resident in their home country. It's less clear what will happen to frontaliers but it seems likely that those who are already established as cross border workers before Brexit will be allowed to continue as they are, although they may be affected if the UK withdraws from the EU healthcare agreements.


Last edited by EuroTrash; 10th July 2019 at 10:30 PM.
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Old 11th July 2019, 06:22 AM
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EuroTrash has summed up what we know at this point. To clarify a bit, while the EU has its regulations for those moving within the EU, the individual member states retain all rights to control their own immigration policies regarding non-EU nationals. So post Brexit (no matter how it eventually comes about) your US spouse will very likely require a visa to join you in France. And what visa precisely will depend on your status as of the date of your move.

Clear as mud, eh?

There is also the matter of what will determine which Brits are considered "resident" in France as of the date of Brexit should you move before that date. Normally, it takes 3 months of "residing in" France to establish your residence here - but how that general rule will be applied come October 31st (or whatever date) still remains to be seen. To take the extreme, they certainly can't proclaim every Brit present in France over the night of Oct 31st to Nov 1st to be "resident" in France and entitled to remain.

Oh, the suspense!

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Old 11th July 2019, 06:42 AM
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Thank you both for your response.
To clarify, I would be employed as a French resident so on French payroll and receiving benefits and paying into the system. Perhaps this could also mean, I could apply for a visa if we leave with a no deal.

Thanks again for your input.

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Old 11th July 2019, 07:12 AM
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If as a British citizen you're working in France on a French contract at whatever the cut off date eventually turns out to be, that's probably the best possible position to be in. The key thing is to be able to demonstrate that you are "correctly exercising freedom of movement" ie meeting the criteria for one of the various categories (eg student, worker, self supporting retiree etc) and if you are here on a French employment contract then you should have no trouble proving you're correctly exercising freedom of movement as a worker.
If there is a deal then the procedures to follow to obtain a titre de séjour will probably be decided between the EU and the UK and all EU countries will do the same. If there is no deal then each country will set its own procedures but they will probably all be pretty similar.

That's all assuming your contract starts before Brexit while you still have the automatic right to work in France as an EU citizen. If it doesn't then you will almost certainly need a work permit. As I understand it this normally needs your employer to satisfy the French authorities that they have tried to recruit an EU citizen to fill the post but haven't managed to do so, but it may be easier to get the work permit if you're being transferred within the same company rather than actually being recruited.

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Old 11th July 2019, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milliesmith View Post
Thank you both for your response.
To clarify, I would be employed as a French resident so on French payroll and receiving benefits and paying into the system. Perhaps this could also mean, I could apply for a visa if we leave with a no deal.

Thanks again for your input.
The chances of leaving with No Deal, are very, very slim at the moment.
There is not the mechanism to get it voted through Parliament, despite all the huffing & puffing by Boris, it can only happen via a circumvention of Parliament.

Talk of this route has already seen Labour threatening a "sit in" to block all Parliamentary business, and ex-PM John Major threatening to go to court for a Judicial Review, which would further delay things.

Mr Smeg will be along in a minute to further assure you that Brexit itself won't happen.

But it's still best to be here before October....

.

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Old 11th July 2019, 07:52 AM
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I don't trust Politcians and their often broken promises which is why I applied for and now have a 10 years CDS.

I am on a French Contract of Employment (Employee NOT a Contractor) , pay French Income Tax and Soc Sec, not UK Tax and NI, have no property in Britain, am not on its Voters Roll and do not contribute to its GDP.

Once I can attain sufficiently good comprehension in aural and oral French I will be applying for French Citizenship.


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Old 11th July 2019, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by milliesmith View Post
I know the answer is yes if we move before Brexit, but what about after Brexit if there is a no deal? Would my contract of employment make it easier?
Nobody really knows. You'll have to wait and see what happens if/when Britain leaves the EU.

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Old 11th July 2019, 10:52 AM
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The important thing is to get your employment right You do not say what you do nor if the UK company has a French arm If not are you sure that the UK will continue to employ you or pay the rather onerous taxes and contributions? Get this confirmed before you move because you do not want to be cast adrift as after Brexit the UK will be on the same basis as say India USA etc

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Old 11th July 2019, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clic Clac View Post
The chances of leaving with No Deal, are very, very slim at the moment.
There is not the mechanism to get it voted through Parliament, despite all the huffing & puffing by Boris, it can only happen via a circumvention of Parliament.
Well no - it can also happen by default, and that's what scary because it will happen if the deadline arrives and nobody asks the EU for an extension, or if the EU says Non.
"Taking no deal off the table" is a meaningless phrase. It's like saying "taking no tablecloth off the table". The only way you stop a table having no tablecloth on it, is to put a cloth on it. The only way you can stop the table having no deal on it, is to put a deal on it.
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